Slight thread hi-jack. Ladtyreported that she had suffered £1000 worth of vandal damage to her car. The authorities say that they don't have time to view the hours of relevant footage. This suggests that the purpose of CCTV surveillance is ??????????????
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"The PC seems to think that this chap won't want any more hassle. I am told he is quite reasonable when he's sober."
Previously known to police then? And are they implying that he`s *not* reasonable when drunk?
At the moment you dont stand out as an individual from a large group of people who have had their wipers messed about with.
If you persue him to court though you WILL stand out to him and who knows what he could do in the future if drunk and holding a grudge?
I mean, its quite easy walk past a car in the dark and squirt paint stripper over it from a bottle for example, no contact, no forensic evidence at the scene.
IMHO, letting it go is the safer option, only a single wiper blade after all........
I have had working experience of people who damage other peoples property and basically with the justice system as it is, the dice are loaded in the perpetrators favour.
I have known people have to move house, out of the area, to get away from certain individuals.
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I would tend to agree - leave it as it is. For the sake of £15 and 2 minutes work, is it worth the risk?
A couple of local "yoofs" went up our street about a year ago and stole all the radio aerials off the cars. One of the neighbours kids saw them out of the window, recognised them and gave the names to the police.
Next day, a copper was going door to door with a handful of radio aerials asking people to identify which was which. Apparently, they'd gone to both of these scrote's houses at about 2am, woken everyone up (including the parents), arrested them on suspicion of theft and dragged them down the station. They'd accepted cautions for telling the cops where they'd stashed the aerials (chucked in a bush round the corner), and the parents were mortified at the police carting their little darlings off to the nick.
The shock of it was, we'd moved from NW London a few months earlier where SWMBO's then 12 month old Fiesta had had 2 grands worth of damage done to it outside the flat one night with a screwdriver and a steel toecapped boot, and the rozzers had done nothing more than give us a crime reference number and helpfully suggest that we "might want to think about not parking it on the street any more".
I thought it was brave of the neighbour's kid to grass like that, but when I spoke to him the next day, he said that one of these kids was "a complete and utter idiot - edit by DD!"
Cheers
DP
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Used to live in street where vandalism to cars was reasonably common, it was a cut through for the local scum bags on the way to the pub and the station, I cought them in the act on a few occasions, three that I recall:
1/ I witnessed three lads damaging a neighbours car, I followed them on foot and phoned the police on my mobile, I saw them enter a house and pointed the house out to the police, the police were not interested, their word against mine apparently.
2/ A neighbour and I cornered a guy that we had seen kick down a garden fence, the police took ages to arrive, 30 mins IIRC, just 2 mins before they did arrive on blue lights the guy walked up to us with his hands in his deep parka type pockets, we did not tackle him, could have been stabbed or put up for assault ourselves.
3/ I saw a young lad kick the door mirror off my company Vectra, I suggested that he had better wait for the police which he did!! Turned out he was 16 and drunk, he got a formal warning, I was advised that there was no point persuing for damages unless 000's of damage had been done.
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"The good lady there e mailed him to point out that there are much simpler ways of legally providing me with the information, and copied the e mail to me. I then e mailed him to formally ask for the guilty party's details and duly received them over the phone the following day."
Is there any chance you could say what this way of providing the information is?
We've had problems with a local "known mentally ill person" who - according to the police - can't be identified or his address revealed - he takes bits off peoples cars at night
- and is too ill to be prosecuted!
Police said - "park your car on another street"
"where does he live?"
"can't tell you that."
So - I could be parking my car outside his door
I'm surprised they would give this info for fear of vigilante retribution though
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"known mentally ill person" who - according to the police - can't be identified or his address revealed - he takes bits off peoples cars at night
- and is too ill to be prosecuted!"
IMHO, It needs resolving though, Only a Doctor can define mental illness ( Mental Heath Act). If he has mental capacity ( Drs decision, usually Consultant Psychiatrist, is the only opinion which will stand legal scrutiny in court) he can be prosecuted but sometimes it seems police don`t want to get involved when mental illness is mentioned.
He either has capacity or hasnt ( fluctuating capacity is the worst to deal with) For his sake as well others whose cars he is damaging, passing information, in writing preferably. ( including description) to your local mental heath team could be of benefit.
If not sure who to write to, you could write to the Director of Social Services in your area, giving concerns and the letter will be passed on to the mixed group of professionals covering your area.
If prosecution is not an option police will consider, mental heath services must be aware of him, but possibly not aware of the extent of the damage.
The Mental Heath Act has provisions ( not just compulsary admission, but supervision etc) and should work in conjunction with the criminal justice system to prevent such issues as you describe.
But it needs communication, not just between agencies, but from members of the public to work effectively.
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There is no system (in reality) for dealing with mild or medium mental illness. At times even the serious cases slip through the net as well...
... and it's not the fault of mental health professionals either....
it is chronic underfunding for many years and 'care in the community' which took over from the big mental health hospitals that have now all been closed down.
the man listed above, will no doubt have a social worker and maybe even a CPN (Community psychiatric nurse).. but in reality if he is bad enough to need compulsory treatment (which many do) there will be no beds available, unless you pay for it privately.......
so the reality is he's left to his own devices
the police will leave alone, because it is difficult to prosecute someone who is mentally ill and if it is genuinely so, should they be??........ sometimes a difficult judgement.
he won't have much to his name either, being on benefits etc....unless he has a supportive family.
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Thanks Oilrag - the chap in question had run off many times having been caught tampering with cars
Police arrested him while he was trying to get into our car with a selection of keys, he said it was his car, bought in Harrods
He was on a bicycle he'd stolen - he was known to local neighbours, shops and offices as someone who would indulge in petty but persistent low level crime and disruption,
They said he was diagnosed schizophrenic whose behaviour varied according to whether he took his medication or not which resulted in regular hospital spells which he would consent to and then decide to leave
They asked whether we wanted him charged with attempted theft - they weren't keen - I said yes
(on a separate occasion I believe he had taken the radiator cap off an old mini one night, the next day I overheated on the motorway - I can't prove it but I caught him twice with the bonnet up!)
Police took him to the station then telephoned to say the doctor had said he was too ill to be responsible - they would keep him for a couple of hours - if we didn't want any more bother we should either sell or move our car
In the end I sold the car - and we moved - when I've been back I still see him there
I think the police didn't want the hassle, they believed any prosecution would fail, - despitethis mental health services were happy for him to live in the community
Too ill to be responsible for his actions - too well to be taken into care
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To satisfy a couple of requests I have posted the relevent part of the e mail that the lady in the Devon and Cornwall Police FoI office sent to the PC.
"Mr **** has rung me, I understand on your recommendation, regarding the disclosure of the name of the offender in the above case for the purposes of a civil claim.
Please note that disclosure of offender details to victims for the purposes of civil claims is covered in PPS D123 Para 7. I have advised Mr **** that he should put his request in writing to you and explained that any disclosure in the case of a juvenile must be approved by an inspector or above."
My request in writing was an e mail referring to the above. It was enough to enable the officer investigating the crime to pick up the phone and give me the details. Here is what I sent.
"Dear [name of Officer]
Many thanks for your phone call yesterday evening, and above all, many thanks for your efforts resulting in solving the crime that we were victims of the other night. Both my wife and I are extremely pleased and grateful for your efforts.
Further to the e mail that your colleague ****** sent to you and copied me in on, I would be grateful if you could treat this e mail as a request in writing for the details of the juvenile who has accepted responsibility for the offence commmitted and reported under crime reference number *******.
I would need the individual's name and address, as well as (if possible) his or her responsible parent or gardian. This information may be used to firstly contact the individual's parent(s) or legal gardian to seek recompense for the loss of the windscreen wiper on our car.
I thank you in advance. Should you have any problems I would be grateful if you could contact me on ***** ******. Thanks
*********"
I believed that a juvenile may have been responsible at the time. The person is actually 35!
As for following up compensation. He already knows where I live and knows that we made the complaint. After our meeting he will also know that I know his name and address. I understand he is already shelling out £000s for damage to another car, probably in relation to the other offence he was arrested for at the same time.
I understand that he may have been traced by DNA evidence on that crime, having cut himself on the car, but I'm not sure. If that is the case then DNA profiling has been used twice to my knowledge to solve car crime in the same area.
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you are extremely lucky you live in an area, where the local officers have the time to do this.......many city forces wouldn't get anywhere near it.........absolutely nowhere near.
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Mini 30, y. I`m sorry to learn of the situation you were in. Sometimes unfortunately the best personal option is to move. These services do much better in areas where *Police* and Mental Heath teams work well together.
There, you never get to hear of the good work though..........
All the best :)
(To others, I`m not commenting further on this)
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Hugo do you want to blank the telephone number out as well ??
{Now removed - DD}
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Hugo do you want to blank the telephone number out as well ??
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pugugly -
hugo no longer has access to the edit button. i have notified your concern to the moderators in case they wish to action the deletion/blanking.
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Thanks, suitably refreshed my memory - not the only thing I forgot today. Bad sign.
and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt. Tacitus, Annals
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oops!
a note to Dave et al
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Is it really worth the effort?
If YOU don't make the effort, THEY won't get the message......................................I wouldn't!
MD
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... the disclosure of the name of the offender in the above case for the purposes of a civil claim. ..
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from www.knowledgenetwork.gov.uk/
home office guidelines state:
....Civil proceedings
43. ... the victim requests the offender's name and address in order to institute civil proceedings, the information must be disclosed. Under the 1998 Data Protection Act, personal data is exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is required for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings or future legal proceedings. This includes circumstances where the data is required in order to obtain legal advice.(VII) ...
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devon&cornwall police's document referred to by hugo "....PPS D123 Para 7 ..." states this at para 7:
"7.0 DISCLOSURE OF OFFENDER'S PERSONAL DETAILS (OPEN) 7.1 Information from police records regarding offenders may be disclosed on occasions in compliance with PPS D185 'Reports on Character and Convictions'. 7.2 Where requested, personal details of convicted, cautioned and officially warned offenders may be released to their victims to pursue civil remedies. 7.3 Where the offender is a juvenile the information may be released at the discretion of an officer (of at least inspector rank) and only to the victim's legal representative.
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Thanks for your replies re disclosure of offender details. You learn something every day!.
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Fullchat
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