Some considerable time ago, a thread was running about the legal situation when driving in a Supermarket car park, as to the question of if the rules of the road apply. Though there was considerable response to the posting, the question was not resolved.
I would wish to ask again,
Do the rules of the road apply when driving in a carpark which is private (not adopted public highway) but to which the public have access?
Is anyone aware of any ruling or court precedent, which would cause the normal rules of the road to apply in a private car park, Supermarket or any other ?
Thank you, Pete.
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Going off at a tangent, but forgive me this once.
Might be obvious to some but not to others, I work for a large supermarket and when at work always park my car at the furthest end of the car park. Yes, it gives me an extra 30 sec walk but over the course of the day I probably only get 2 or 3 people parking beside me.
Park like most people do, as close to the shop as you can, and by the time you have done your shopping you have probably had half a dozen cars either side of you, all trying to ding and scrape your car wit their doors and trollies!
As I said, obvious to me, but maybe a useful tip for others.
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At the risk of continuing the tangent or starting a new one, my local Tesco car park is huge and has proper road markings, including give way lines and a roundabout. Whether the rules of the road could be legally enforced or not, users would be in real trouble if people didn't follow them to a large extent.
As for BobbyG's tip, I don't know why more people don't do this. I always avoid parking near other cars if I can. Apart from anything else, gettng between white lines is easier than getting between parked cars. Of course, if everyone behaved like this, cars would be evenly distributed through the car park and the benefits would be lost.
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Pete
S 192 RTA 88 defines a road as " any highway and any other road to which the public has access and includes bridges over which a road passes".
Fairly simple - yes? But no as PU and other will tell you as there is a plethora of case law as to what is and what is not.
Whether the public has access is a question of fact. If only a restricted section of the public such as a members of a Club has access to a road, that is not enough to make it a "road" (Blackmore v CC Devon 1984.) But there again Car Parks and forecourts , in exceptional cases, may be shown as roads (Baxter v Middlesec CC 1956.
Without a thesis on this subject it would appear that whether a particular location falls within the definition above of "road" will ultimately be one of fact for a Court to decide having reference to the character and function of the land in question.
If Tesco is responsible for the repair and maintenance of the Car Park then you do not need an Excise licence (but will require same to get there and go bacck home on public road)
Confused? Which is why Plod will tell you with one breath - private property and the next time will sheet you if you are over the limit.
DVD
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Agree with DVD - one Supermarket car-park might be a road but the next one might be - an example locally is the local Safeway
with one way in and out - probably not a road, Tesco's on the other hand has a one way system which may lead it to be a road (one way in one way out) such a complex field with a load of caselaw. Recent example I dealt with was an accident in a car (Fail to Stop) park - Aldis I think but there was access control on it - CPS quite rightly took this to Court only to decide on the day not to pursue when they found out aboth the barrier. Breath test law is subtly different Police only have to prove public place not a road i.e. when local Tesco was 0800 to 2200 the Car Park was a public place regardless of layout etc etc. After 2200 it became a private place but since Tesco became 24/7
the car park followed suit public place. Confused ? So is the Law !
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Many years ago, I was involved in an accident in a B&Q carpark in the midlands.
The other driver accepted liability, but there was concern expressed by some of my colleagues that the insurance company may not want to know if it was in a privately owned car park.
Thankfully, the 3rd party insurance excelled themselves, paying up promptly etc.
****Signature? - Ideas on a postcard please anyone!****
Hugo
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I always park well away from the trolley stores, and usually follow your tip to park out on a limb somewhere, but, inevitably someone always parks next to me, which leaves me muttering under my breath \"they\'ve got the whole ruddy car park and they have to snuggle up right close to me!\" :(
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\"they\'ve got the whole ruddy car park and they have to snuggle up right close to me!\" :(
It\'s those deceptive apperaences again - perhaps you look the friendly sort!
****Signature? - Ideas on a postcard please anyone!****
Hugo
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I find attitudes change with the cars I drive..
No-one will park too close to the Landie or the Cav (with its slightly down at heal look) but they seemed magnatized to the BM or the MINI...
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Reminds me of the Matt cartoon in the Telegraph at the height of the BSE scare.
Matt's usual bloke is sat in a bus, with empty seats all around him except the one right by him, where a happy-looking cow has placed itself. Matt's bloke is muttering something like "Typical - why does the nutter always have to come and sit next to you?"
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