I must admit when I have driven my cousins 3 series in the past I have had an enhanced feeling of self importance and invunerability compared to driving my mondeo (dont ask me why though!)
I'm a loser, baby....so why don't you kill me?!
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"I am quite happy to believe all this as true, and not worry about those who haven't the wherewithal to own or drive a BMW."
Especially when overtaking, pulling out of junctions, entering roundabouts............ ;-)
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As for politics of envy I can afford a BMW tomorrow, but it has no attraction for me (a) because it looks like every other jelly-mould clone on the market - if you put a Toyota badge on it no one would notice, (b) because of the bad rep it has and the jokes around the bar at my expense about my alleged need for Viagra on wheels (c) because where I live it is a definite target for carnappers and people who have a dislike of the cultural genre who buy one and who might just take that out on me (d) because it's over-priced for what it is, it's only an average car anyway, and (e) because Growlette wouldn't be seen dead in one because (she says) it's for billyboys. That's that, then. Oh and I can get two Harleys for the price of one BMW.
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"BMWs all have gorgeous engines, handsome bodies, sophisticated aura, gentlemanly demeanour, lapidary physical integrity"
Eh? The four-cylinder engines (which they sell the most of) are no better than anyone else's, and probably not as good as Honda's, and a number of their Nikasil-bored sixes had to be replaced. Handsomeness is in the eye of the beholder (JC once said that BMW only made one car, but in three different sizes), and 'sophisticated aura' is certainly a matter of opinion. Demeanour is not something one associates with a car - the driver, perhaps, in which case it applies in only a few cases, and the build quality is much the same as VAG or major Japanese, and inferior to, say, Porsche or Mercedes.
This discussion is largely about the badge, of course, rather than the cars, which are undoubtedly a reasonable product - just not as magical as some would have it. Funnily enough, I do own a BMW, only mine's got two wheels...
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The reason I have my eye on a (used) 320d for next year is that they're rear-wheel drive, which I found I preferred after experiencing it for a while, and because the diesel-engined versions have caught up with VAG in terms of achieving a combination of both power and economy, while seeming more refined and more reliable than the equivalent VAG product. The badge has nothing to do with it, I'd be equally keen if it had a Skoda badge (in fact, silly comparison as I rate Skodas quite highly regardless!)
The only alternative I can think of for a reliable, swift, RWD, diesel-engined car that can do over 45 mpg at normal speeds is Mercedes, and I'd be happy to own either marque (wouldn't we all!). It's just that as far as I can tell, Mercs tend to be slightly dearer to buy and insure and slightly less well-equipped, model for model. Am I mistaken about this? I also reckon a 3 year-old 3 or 5 Series will handle better than the equivalent C or E Class.
But - I have heard that the pedals are a bit offset in the 3-Series. Had that before in another car & hated it. Maybe it'll be a Merc after all!
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Andy, I am delighted with my choice of a 320d, now 2 years old. Meanwhile I'm laughing all the way to the bank: cruising effortlessly at a steady 85 mph ;-) in France recently I got 47 mpg, and know I can easily get 55 mpg-plus at more moderate speeds. My friend in a BMW M roadster driving with rather more gusto needed to make an additional fuel stop on the same 180 mile journey. So you pays your money and you takes your choice as they say.
(Incidentally the supposed offset-pedal issue previously aired in this forum has never been an issue for me).
As to the key issue, we all have slightly different styles and preferences as to our driving habits. I am thick-skinned enough not to worry about the supposed reputation of BMW drivers, preferring to create and be accountable for my own reputation.
Oz (as was)
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I know we have deviated from the original thread of questioning the sanity of some of the younger Beem driver`s standards, but I take issue with James Pickett ( J Bonington Jagworth) when he makes a bland statement that BMW build quality is on a par with Audi and inferior to Mercedes, without qualifying his statement. Firstly Audi make great bodies and their interior quality is superb, but their engines are carp, ( they can`t even afford the extra cost of chain cam drive on most of their engines). I know of several friends who complain of diabolical oil consumption ( 1 litre per 1000 miles), in fact my son had an A4 2.8 quattro from new, that only managed 800 miles /litre, and by 30k miles the engine sounded so rough, I advised him to get rid of it. As for Mercedes build quality, I question when you last closely examined the interior materials and quality of the C Class Merc, - they are just not what you expect from M. Benz and way below BMW & Audi standards. In addition , they are encountering a plethora of electrical problems, which is not acceptable, when you are spending well in excess of 20k. Please quantify your statements with facts in future, before making these sweeping mis-informed statements.
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Sticks and stones really. Drive a Defender - the only sensible comment on a recent TG was that a Landie was classless and it is.
I just love driving it to the local BMW dealership. I do feel different when driving it, but then again feel different in SWMBO's Mini and very different in the Hack Cavalier - but in their own ways I love them all - and I drive them all with as much care and consideration and admit that I occasionally fall below my own standard....the difference you can get away with it in the Landie and the Cav but attract fingers and fists in the BM...
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There are several ages of BMW ownership...
Folks look at buying one because they might suit them.
New owners enjoy them for their particular qualities.
Owners start to perceive they are the best cars in the world.
Owners start boring others with this "fact".
Owners misinterpret coincidental and unconcerned glances of others as envy.
Owners grumble about the behaviour of the "lower orders" towards them on the road and believe it is a result of this "envy".
Owners feel a warmth and smugness that brings them to the pinnacle of BMW ownership.
I know some real gents who own BMWs and they all stop after point two. Others however bang on through the list and end up like the famous whirly whirly bird...
They are nice cars though!
M.M
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M.M.
Your post should have carried health warning. Intrigued by the additional lettering - clicked on show profile - spilt elevenses coffee over the desk laughing.
Good start to the day. Thanks for that.
Phil I
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Phil,
Of course I lied a bit in my profile, I'm not important at all...the rest of it is true though!
If you want to know the real health of any company walk past the CEO and seek out the longest serving cleaner and drop him a pint...they know which way the wind is blowing.
M.M
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".. but their engines are carp"
Now who's generalising? None of us can claim to have done an exhaustive survey, but my 14-year old Audi has done 120k and uses so little oil that I sometimes worry that it's making the stuff. The 5-cylinder engine sounds so agreeable that I often drive with the windows down to hear more of it, and a friend's S280 Merc (with glass roof) is undoubtedly the best-finished car, inside and out, that I have sat in to date.
I've nothing against BM's, as it happens - I was just trying to counter the hagiography from the un-named 'motoring expert' in the Telegraph.
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This was tongue in cheek at the time, and still is now, but is true.
I was with my 8 year old son. We had just come out of the local shop and were about to start the short cycle ride home. Pulling out of the shop car park was a yellow series 3 with go faster stripes painted on it - a fairly new one and obviously a professional paint job - hideous looking thing but there you are.
I said to my son; 'son, when you see a car like that, you have to be extra special careful and keep your eye on it'. Why's that dad? he asked.
'Because they're usually driven by idiots'. I said.
With that the car did a wheel spin pull away and roared down the road.
My boy looked at me with utter astonishment and said; 'whoa dad, you know everything'.
'Yep son, everything', I said.
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".. but their engines are carp" Now who's generalising? None of us can claim to have done an exhaustive survey, but my 14-year old Audi has done 120k and uses so little oil that I sometimes worry that it's making the stuff. The 5-cylinder engine sounds so agreeable that I often drive with the windows down to hear more of it, and a friend's S280 Merc (with glass roof) is undoubtedly the best-finished car, inside and out, that I have sat in to date. I've nothing against BM's, as it happens - I was just trying to counter the hagiography from the un-named 'motoring expert' in the Telegraph.
Agree totally. At 30k a VAG engine hasn't fully bedded in. You'll find at 60k+ the engine will stop using oil as the rings fully settle into the bores. Audis and Hondas are known for this and you'll find that the Audi hand book warns that oil consumption of upto 1l per 1000km is usual in certain conditions. The old Golf GTi/A80 1.8 was one of the best 4-cylinder engines ever made....
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My comments were directed purely at M. Benz & V.A.G vehicles available in the showrooms today !! If I was referring to models from these companies, that were built 10 to 15 years ago, I totally agree that IMHO, the W124 E Class Merc was one of the finest and most reliable vehicles ever made and nigh bomb proof, and that the Mk 1 & 2 Golfs with the 1780 cc engine were truly outstanding and utterly reliable. Unfortunately companies change when the bean counters get involved, - Mercedes would appear to have attempted to save costs on their components, which has resulted in many electrical problems, and by switching their manufacturing away from Germany, (again to save costs), to South Africa for the C Class, has also contributed to an increase in build quality problems. One could accuse V.A.G of also reducing the costs and hence quality of their components, which has lead to a considerable reduction in their overall reliability (e.g. the fiasco with the coil problems recently). Finally to state that oil consumption of 1 litre per 1000 miles is perfectly acceptable, is to me horrendous, especially as V.A.G recommend Castrol SLX at almost £11 per litre,- particularly when most cars from the Far East today can comfortably run between 10k oil changes without the need to top up !!!
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Dude said: referring to Mercs & VAG.... Unfortunately companies change when the bean counters get involved, ... >>
Of course, BMW dont come in to this category. Again quoting my anonymous motoring expert,
"....The new BMW 5-series was being described as "the best car in the world" before its admirers had even cast eyes on it. That tells you something about the status surrounding BMW. Understandably, the company revels in such accolades. Officials quietly point out that it is just reward for an engineering-led design strategy free of the financial straitjackets some rivals impose on their research and development departments.
Engineering is the essence of a car in BMW's eyes, and the accountants' job is to find enough money to make it happen. Even so, BMW's marketing people are doubtless aware that many customers have little knowledge or interest in what lies beneath the wheel arches or under the bonnet. Rather, they bought the car because it had the right badge.
If fashionable status is a consequence of engineering freedom, it has obviously been a good long-term strategy ? especially when most people nowadays glaze over once you start talking about technology. But this flags up another problem. Having set out their stall, how can those engineers be expected to improve whatever it was that made their previous car the best in the world? What's more, they are obliged to do so every five years.
Unlike some of the stuff that comes out of Japan, which you never realised you needed, there are some obvious benefits here. ..."
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Rather, they bought the carbecause it had the right badge.
Exactly, and I am happy to say that is why I bought my 530dT because of the badge.
I took the view that BMW badged cars lasted longer than other marques so I was happy to pay more in the belief that it will be cheaper in the long run. I am not planning to change it until it is knocking on the door of 200k miles. That means I should get another 8 years use out of it.
I know that this wasn't really wha you meant about buying because of the right badge!
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>>The new BMW 5-series was being described as "the best car in the world" before its admirers had even cast eyes on it. That tells you something about the status surrounding BMW.
Tells you something about motoring hacks, too...
I should have thought that reliability was a factor in this, too, and who tops those polls? Subaru, Toyota, Mazda...
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Well, in my neck of the woods we must be very blessed as I find that BMW drivers are split 75/25 in favour of courteous, skilled and patient drivers. I just guess that we're a lot more chilled out 'oop north'!
HAving said that, I did have a 3-series up my chuffer on the way to work at 6am yesterday morning, despite that fact that I was already doing 40 in a 30. At the first opportunity he shot past me looking down his nose at me in my 'D' reg Granada. I just looked at his rapidly disappearing big bore exhaust and personalised plate and thought something that rhymes with 'Mr Prosser'
Rob
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast."
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As far as I can see, having looked about after being alerted by this discussion, BMW drivers are no worse than any others.
Perhaps an early entry hit it on the head:-
>>there is also the "politics of envy" to contend with...
Which is a gut response, but not quite illogical, because generally they do not get all that much more for their money in terms of machinery; but they do feel superior, which upsets others; however, if they feel better, it's their money, surely.
Rudolf
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At least BMW UK haven't taken all the stereotyping too seriously and chosen to advertise on this site thus keepimg the site solvent - so some good do come from BMW drivers.
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Since this thread started, I've been keeping a closer eye on the drivers who:
(a) Exceed the speed limit by some margin
(b) Like to take a close look at the rear of my car when I'm legitimately overtaking slower traffic
and I've come to an interesting conclusion - it's not just BMW, it's all German cars. I am frequently tailgated by VW Passats, Golfs, 3-series BMWs, Mercs and so on.
But, having said that, I must also give a mention to the Vauxhall drivers who seem to use the M53 as an unofficial test track. One in particular, an Astra Convertible, regularly passes me at what I estimate to be close to or over 100mph (even in the rain like today).
Another mention goes to the modified Saxo brigade, who also appear to think that speed limits don't apply to them.
Andy
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Andy P, if it isn't all german models yet, the trend is growing:
I too remember the ad where the yuppie doesn't buy the Audi cos it's 'not his type of car mate', mentioned by J Bonington Jagworth, but have you seen the latest TV ad for the new Audi A3? All 'self-confidence' -or is it aggression and menace? The strap line is "New Attitude"...
Ho hum... sounds more like it's falling into the trap of "Same Attitude (as that other German '3' car)"
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