All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - Brit_in_Germany

A question to HJ asked about tables for NOx emissions of currdnt cars. This is a good reference:

equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - RT

A question to HJ asked about tables for NOx emissions of currdnt cars. This is a good reference:

equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/

That table's a load of nonsense! It's based on the NEDC official test, not real world testing, and simply shows that all Euro 6 diesels are in the top band "A".

It also has errors that I can see as it still shows some models as Euro 5 despite the fact they've been Euro 6 for 3 years!

Edited by RT on 22/04/2017 at 11:43

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - Brit_in_Germany

They are independent tests. Take for example the BMW 4 series - theoretically Euro 6 but they put it in band E.

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - RT

I don't see any independent tests - just the Euro band and fuel type to rank according to it's limit.

Looking at my VW's V5C, it meets Euro 6 for diesels (as it must) but also meets the forthcoming tightening of Euro 6 for petrols from September 2017 - NOx is 0.039, half the legal limit - not even shown on this table despite being out 3 years.

Edited by RT on 22/04/2017 at 14:08

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - Brit_in_Germany

"Emissions Analytics tests hundreds of new cars each year, covering over 90% of car sales, in real-world conditions on the road using state-of-the-art gas analysers. It covers petrol and diesels, hybrids and plug-ins for many pollutant emissions, not least NOx. With test locations in multiple countries across Europe, as well as the United States, it is the best position independently to track the real emissions of cars, including the very latest new launches."

Clearly not all cars have been tested but the list is fairly compehensive. Does the EQUA Aq index not show on your screen? Have you scrolled through the pdf of diesel Euro 6 cars?

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - RT

It just shows the Euro 5 version 4 years ago for my model.

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - Stanb Sevento

Clearly not all cars have been tested but the list is fairly compehensive. Does the EQUA Aq index not show on your screen? Have you scrolled through the pdf of diesel Euro 6 cars?

The index shows all 541 cars tested with their EURO band and their measured ranking letter, its the best guide we have at the moment. If I remember correctly that was one of the complaints the EU had with the UK and others that governments have done a lot of their own testing but have not submitted the results to the EU. Shielding their own car makers I suspect.

Personally Im not too hung up about NOx, its a problem confined to city centres and I never drive anywhere near them. In the context of modern life and all the other things we are subjected to its not exactly top of the list. The published number of deaths caused by NOx is calculated by a method that stretches my credulity too far.

Like most local authorities mine has a number of air quality monitoring stations dotted around. One is at a major road junction, a roundabout, one of the big spiral jobs with several sets of traffic lights, thousands of cars an hour at peak times and standing traffic in four directions. If anywhere was going to have high NOx reading that would be it, but its not, at its worst its well below WHO levels. No skyscrapers to trap the NOx is the reason. NOx has a short life in the atmosphere and does not build up like other things so Im quite laid back about using my diesel in the way I do.

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 23/04/2017 at 11:08

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - Engineer Andy

The problems do come in major towns and cities with heavy traffic all day - I found that my asthma was far worse working (not living) in London in the last 10 years or so (when there were far more diesel vehciles than before the Labour government encouraged people to ditch petrol cars for CO2 emissions reasons) than when I studdied at university there ten years before that, with reasonably similar levels of traffic. Particularly bad in summer. Many London areas fail miserably on the WHO/EU pollutants - I was walking along once of the worst set of roads for that - Euston Road, and believe me - its BAD.

Despite there being scientific evidence a long time ago (before the aforementioned government encouragement towards diesels) that particulates and NOx/NO2 were very harmful and that diesel vehicles were the main cause in cities (other than gas boilers, which wouldn't be an easy thing to replace), the government of the day stupidly still believed the so-called 'government/EU experts', and so did many drivers, who, despite evidence (again) warning about the pitfalls of using diesel cars for short journeys, low annual mileages (below 15 - 20k) and/or in built up areas, 'believed the hype' (not helped by the manufacturers and their [IMO] unscrupulous sales staff, who, in my view, knew all this but continued to peddle the line that they were fine and would be far better, relaible and cheaper to run than petrol-engined cars) and bought such cars in huge numbers.

Personally, I have little sympathy for drivers who bought diesel cars without doing their homework. Hopefully the new EU test (and, if it is properly representative of real world conditions/driving, ours, after Brexit) will be far more strict on the 'rule bending' (at best) the manufacturers currently use to duck under the emissions limits and we'll get data that can be actually compared to what we will really experience, and the same goes for mpg as well. People then can hopefully make a more informed choice, though with a bit of effort (and now with the help of HJ's 'Real mpg' data and from other sources) most people can already do so, with the right attitude and a bit of sense.

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - RT

Cities are the problems - self-created in the sense that the vast numbers of people living, working, shopping and visiting and all the infra-structure they need creates a "temperature inversion layer" which traps the toxic substances and dramatically reduces air quality.

In the countryside, the NOx readily breaks down to Nitrogen and Oxygen, both vital for healthy living.

At first glance, the answer is to abandon cities and spread the population out - but human nature would never allow that.

What London, and other major European cities, need is frequent clean public transport - but that only deals with the pollution from cars. The pollution from goods vehicles is much higher by virtue of their greater weight - this is the area that politicians, engineers and scientists need to concentrate on, not more restrictions on cars.

All - Are there any tables that show comparisons of NOx - Terry W

If there were a genuine seriousness to tackle the problem the authorities could easily take further action in London:

- congestion charge to penalise private vehicles over about 1.2 litres. A large vehicle in London is usually self indulgent and unnecessary,

- all taxis to be either hybrid or wholly electric. They rarely venture far outside Greater London so range not an issue. Charging points could be installed on taxi ranks fairly simply.

- delivery and trade vehicles to be treated largely as taxis as most are local.

- large delivery vehicles to be limited to non peak hours - say 7.00pm to 7.00am. or pay a substan

Some years ago I used to commute to paris on about a weekly basis. On a clear day when returning to Heathrow, Greater London was covered by a yellow/brown smog.

Some will object to such a draconian approach which will inevitably add to cost or reduce operational flexibility. I now live 200miles away - but Londoners have a clear choice - pay the price in either money or inconvenience to reduce pollution or accept a cra**y environment. Your choice!!

 

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