198 miles later and an engine fault develops

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 14:07
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - lyttonwolf

Hi
I bought a 64 reg vehicle from a national dealership 19 days ago, it has 26k on the clock. It was serviced immediately prior to its sale to us.
We've done 198 miles since purchase and now the spanner dashboard light comes on and the power cuts to about 10% apparently indicating it needs a service very soon. This could easily have caused a major incident as it happened on a busy main road.
Clearly this car has some sort of a problem. It does have a 3 month warranty but I have totally lost trust in it.
After 19 days and 198 miles can I demand my money back?
Thanks for your advice!

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 14:25
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - Engineer Andy

Others are probably more up on this, but I believe ALL second hand cars bought at commercial outlets, even people trading from their home (i.e. not sold privately) MUST give a minimum of 6 month's warranty, whatever the car's age, and must rectify or offer an alternative/money back if a problem cannot be fixed in a 'reasonable' amount of time. It could be if you've had it under 30 days that you can legally demand a full refund, after that (or longer?) you may get a bit less as would include a reduction for usage.

How exactly have you 'totally lost trust' in it (warranty or car)? Cars can go wrong at any time, and this may not have been something that would be picked up at the service. Best to take it back for them to have a look first, then see what happens. One thing I'm not sure is that they may (check other people's comments first as I'm not sure) not legally obliged to 'keep you on the road' whilst the car is repaired, though I'd have thought any reputable dealership would do so, though you wouldn't be guaranteed a car of similar size or spec.

PS - probably best to check in HJ's FAQs/Advice section as I suspect this is not the first time people have come across such a situation.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 29/01/2017 at 14:28

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 15:08
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - lyttonwolf

Hi, thanks for the reply.

The lost confidence is as much to do with the fact that 95% of the time it's my wife driving it with 2 young kids in the back on busy main roads. Just the slightest chance that this could happen when, say, they are pulling out at a busy junction terrifies us.

Also when we picked it up one of the headlights wasn't working despite the fact that they supposedly serviced and road checked it. Also when we first went for a test drive the battery was flat. Minor things really (that should have alerted me I know!) but for this to happen after only 198 miles is very alarming.

I will post how I get on!

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 14:26
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - RT

Spanner means get workshop attention - especially in "limp" mode - probably nothing to do with a service!

You can reject the car within 30 days.

A 3 month warranty is worthless, the dealer's responsible for faults present at time of sale for 6 months.

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 14:49
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - RobJP

The law :

Under the Consumer Rights Act, if a fault develops within the first 30 days, you may reject the car and receive a FULL refund (note that car tax is not part of the purchase, so you will not receive full refund on that from DVLA).

You do not HAVE to reject the car, you MAY choose to accept a repair instead. But it is YOUR choice - not the choice of the selling garage.

However, do note that if the repair then fails a couple of months later, and you then chose to reject the car, you'd go into the second part of rejection under the CRA, which is ...

From month 1 to 6 months of purchase, if a fault appears, you must give the selling garage one opportunity to rectify. If the repair fails, you MAY (again, your choice) reject the car, and receive a refund. The selling garage is entitled to deduct money from the refund for 'reasonable use' that you've had of the car.

In practice, the deduction levels for 'reasonable use' will need to be established by the courts in the case of disputes.

My personal recommendation : reject it. Tomorrow. Get it back to them (your responsibility, at your cost) along with all paperwork, keys, handbooks, and a letter detailing your rejection under CRA, and explaining that you expect a refund within 7 days. No refund within 7 days, contact them, giving them another 48 hours, and then go for the throat (Trading Standards, etc)

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 15:01
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - lyttonwolf

wow, can't thank you enough for this. There's a chance (not much, admittedly) that I may sleep tonight now!

This supports what you said...

www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rig...r

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 15:24
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - lyttonwolf

just another thought though. When I fired it up just now it started ok. Is there a chance they won't believe me even if I show them the youtube video I (luckily) made when it happened...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO4sijTd_O4&feature=youtu.be


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Sun 29 Jan 2017 16:50
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - RobJP

just another thought though. When I fired it up just now it started ok. Is there a chance they won't believe me even if I show them the youtube video I (luckily) made when it happened...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO4sijTd_O4&feature=youtu.be


If you've made a video of it, then they cannot deny that it has happened. Whether they 'believe you' does not matter, it is a matter of fact that the fault happened, and can be proven.

In addition, the fault would be logged by the on-board computer systems.

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 18:27
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - lyttonwolf

brilliant, thanks

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 12:08
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - pd

The law :

Under the Consumer Rights Act, if a fault develops within the first 30 days, you may reject the car and receive a FULL refund (note that car tax is not part of the purchase, so you will not receive full refund on that from DVLA).

Sorry to be picky but The Consumer Rights Act does not say that. It can, in some circumstances, be interpreted as meaning that in practice but that isn't what it says.

In this case, on a 64-plate car unless it has done a higher mileage (there is a world of difference on a 10k car or an 80k mile one) then I would have thought there is a good case for rejection.

It could be anything frankly, from a dodgy sensor, hose come off to something serious. No way of telling without code reading it. Either way unless it is a mega miler the dealer should sort it one way or another.

The word "fault" is never mentioned once in the entire CRA by the way so I have no idea why websites and people keep using it.

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 12:37
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - RobJP

The word "fault" is never mentioned once in the entire CRA by the way so I have no idea why websites and people keep using it.

The legislation does mention the word 'fault'. Chapter 2, Section 24. 6. (a) for example.

The .gov website itself mentions 'faulty' several times. On this page :

www.gov.uk/government/publications/consumer-rights...5

the word 'faulty' is used 4 times. When good are 'faulty' or not of a reasonable standard, when digital purchases are 'faulty', etc. The meaning is clear - goods are faulty or not of satisfactory quality.

I'd argue that any 64-plate car should, if retailed, be in pretty-much perfect mechanical condition, and 'fault-free'. There may well be cosmetic defects, or items of trim worn or damaged (and any such defect or damage would be obvious to a reasonably diligent purchaser) but, whether the car has done 10k or 80k miles, it should be in mechanically good condition if it is being retailed.

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 15:38
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - pd

The word "fault" is never mentioned once in the entire CRA by the way so I have no idea why websites and people keep using it.

The legislation does mention the word 'fault'. Chapter 2, Section 24. 6. (a) for example.

The .gov website itself mentions 'faulty' several times. On this page :

www.gov.uk/government/publications/consumer-rights...5

the word 'faulty' is used 4 times. When good are 'faulty' or not of a reasonable standard, when digital purchases are 'faulty', etc. The meaning is clear - goods are faulty or not of satisfactory quality.

I'd argue that any 64-plate car should, if retailed, be in pretty-much perfect mechanical condition, and 'fault-free'. There may well be cosmetic defects, or items of trim worn or damaged (and any such defect or damage would be obvious to a reasonably diligent purchaser) but, whether the car has done 10k or 80k miles, it should be in mechanically good condition if it is being retailed.

Yes, you are correct it does mention it there and I stand correct. It doesn't mention it in the main "satisfactory quality" part though. To that extent it manages to confuse even its self.

As far as the car is concerned I'd agree it should be remidied. Certainly not arguing that.

However, if this was an 80k mile car it might not be quite as clear cut as you think. For example, if a turbo pipe had perished (not uncommon), a drive belt gone iffy or something similar then even at that age with some miles on it a purchaser would not have a clear cut case or, at least, never really know where they stand.

At the end of the day if a "reasonable person" didn't expect cars to sometimes go wrong there wouldn't be dealers, garages or a huge multi-billion pound market in replacement parts.

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 15:09
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - lyttonwolf

thanks, very reassuring. Phew!

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 17:23
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - Richard M

Surely if this car is a 64 reg it would still be under the original manufacturer's 3 year minimum warranty, possibly more depending on make, unless it hasn't been serviced according the correct shedule?

Edited by Richard M on 29/01/2017 at 17:23

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Mon 30 Jan 2017 16:51
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - concrete

I fully understand your lack of confidence in the vehicle for future use by your wife and children. However it is fairly new with quite low mileage and presumably still a lot of warranty left. Depending on the make and model I would be inclined to think again about rejection. As RobJP ably pointed out, you can opt for a repair and still retain the right to reject the vehicle if this fails to cure the fault. This brings us back to it failing during a trip made by your wife. In short it can happen to any car at any time so you have to take a view on this. Good luck and let us know what you decide and how it all works out. Cheers Concrete

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Sun 29 Jan 2017 22:58
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - SLO76
As already mentioned the dealer is obliged to fix it so I wouldn't be too concerned plus it should (assuming it has a full main dealer service history) still have some manufacturer warranty remaining so you should be well protected.

What is the make, model and engine?
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Wed 1 Feb 2017 12:11
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - pd

Just to add to the OP: It will have stored the code as to why it went into limp mode so, even if it is now running correctly, a code reader will be able to see when and why it went wrong.

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Tue 7 Feb 2017 08:41
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - lyttonwolf

Good news. Dealer had car back and full refund provided. Thanks for the advice!

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Tue 7 Feb 2017 09:11
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - RobJP

Good news. Dealer had car back and full refund provided. Thanks for the advice!

Great result. Many thanks for getting back to us with the outcome

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Tue 7 Feb 2017 11:44
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - concrete

Good news. Dealer had car back and full refund provided. Thanks for the advice!

Good news indeed. At least you had a dealer who is prepared to do the right thing by you. What kind of vehicle was it lyttonwolf? Maybe worth knowing for future reference.

Cheers Concrete

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Tue 7 Feb 2017 13:32
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - SLO76
Great result. Enjoy shopping for the replacement!
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Tue 7 Feb 2017 16:24
198 miles later and an engine fault develops - TedCrilly

I think in cases like this is rejection really the best option. You will now have to go through the whole finding/choosing/haggling/buying/insuring/taxing process again and for what, another car that could again develop an issue???

We don't know what the fault was but given the age and mileage its unlikely to be something serious or expensive. The loss of power is almost certainly a switch to limp mode and it will probably be put right at the manufactures cost. The car will be back on the forecourt by now and any costs incurred by the dealer will be passed onto the next buyer as part of the deal if at all possible.

Obviously it was a car you liked and wanted and you have to accept that cars do develop faults. I would have been more inclined to let them at least diagnose it before considering rejection. It could have been as simple as an hour on the ramp while you watch Homes under the hammer with a cuppa in the corner of the showroom.

Good luck with the replacement, I hope it meets with all your expectations.

Edited by TedCrilly on 07/02/2017 at 16:38

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