Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Bootsie

I am a keen fisherman belonging to a club so make journeys to Lakes frequently.

On July 8th a Sunday morning I drove to Ingatestone Essex, down the A10 onto the M25 and back up the M11.

This was the first occasion the syptoms occured and has repeated itself exactly the same on the following two outings.

Firstly acceleration seems to fade not being able to put my foot down.

Then it creeps along getting slower till I reach the up-ramp of the Harlow 414 where it almost dies ,kangarooing along.

I have to pull over and cut the ignition leaving for a few minutes with everything off.

Sometimes it repeats the stuttering when started, but generally 2nd time around she starts normally as if nothing has happened and proceeds to act normal to my journeys end and on the return leg

I recently filled her up with V power, allthough I am not saying this was the cause as on the next fill-ups I used any diesel.

What astounds me is that I have done several long journeys with no sign of the symptoms at all, # I have just had her checked by a Service dealer and he reported that the memory had stored a steering fault which was cleared ,but could find nothing else wrong. And since then this Sunday (same journey) it repeated the fault again.

Is this Engine management problems, faulty injection, any ideas would be gratefully received, I am 99% happy with my car and she has not missed a beat other than this problem, I have covered 24,000 miles on the speedo. I always try NOT to do short journeys as I was warned about the PDF, Ohh I do not get ANY warning lights come up when the fault occurs, and of course the garage could not repeat the fault.

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - injection doc

I would change the fuel filter. If it cures it i would cut the filter open and see if is covered in a thin black slime caused by bacteria in the tank.

The filter may only of done a few miles but for the cost of a filter i would replace it first.

Bacteria in tanks is more common than you think and the most overlooked and so common for blocking diesel filters up causing loss of power intermitantly.

At one time a certain barnd of supermarket fuel was suseptical to bacteria but mostly low liage diesels where they are parked up allowing the bacteria to grow.

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Bootsie

Thanks for the Hint, will get my friendly mechie to change it for me, I will keep you all posted

bootsie

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Bootsie

Have been pondering the situation, and I have some theories:

Filled up with V power which has cleaning properties,so any sludge etc would end up in the fuel filter?

Bacteria IS a well known problem on underused diesel, which mine is?

Searched the internet for info on "Bacteria in Diesel " there is a mine of information and it certainly seems to be pointing towards my engines symptoms, I am expecting to change the filter very soon, and will perform an Autopsy on it.

My journeys which induce the problem are motorways and inclines all demanding power and fuel so logically a blocked filter would fit the pattern.

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Bootsie

Update: Problem re-occurred on Sunday 9th different journey mainly motorway covered abt 17 miles before she died. Measured my mileage from previous journeys abt 15 -17 miles before problem occurs.

Monday 10th : my mechie changed the fuel filter, the old one was clean as a whistle ,no sludge nothing.

So apparently there is a small rubber diaphram pump button on top of the Shoguns fuel filter, if / when she dies again I have been asked to try this button : if soft to touch it means there is no fuel, so could have a possible small air leak also might be the fuel cap not allowing air in so creating a vacumn.

So there it is problem NOT solved so far: another thought is when the car does low speeds 30 mph for good distances no symptoms occur? Definitely fuel starvation.

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - gordonbennet

Well its not certain its fuel starvation, but seeing as you have a good old fashioned hand primer*, at least you can say with some certainty whether the system is getting fuel.

All Diesels should be so fitted, the abuse the starter has to take to get fuel into a new fue filter unless the fitter pre fills with clean fuel ( i do) is unbelievable.

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Bootsie

Tuesday 18 Sept: Fuel filter changed last week, did 80 + miles Sunday some Motorway, no sign of problem.

Coming back Monday evening after 40 miles started to loose top end accelaration, 2 warning lights came up DPF and Fuel filter,i was on the M11 so felt it best to pull up and and get assistance, got taken back home with the car,have booked her in to main dealer to-day , will keep you posted about the outcome.Bootsie

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Bootsie

Garage reported back to-day: They say they have regenerated the DPF ? also recommend engine oil change and filter.

Okay here is my latest theory: DPF gets clogged ,Engine goes into limp mode, I am seriously thinking of getting rid of the DPf which is situated in the exhaust system, if I do this the engine management will need re-mapping, but there are company`s that will do the whole thing, which means No more DPF problems and apparently according to their claims increase MPG, any thoughts are welcome Bootsie

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Goatherd

This is just a thought, but many years ago I had a similar problem after around 30 miles it would cough splutter and die....... Nobody could tell me what was wrong then one day I took off the fuel cap after it had happened again and there was a sudden inrush of air...... It was quite simply that the air hole on the fuel cap had become blocked and was creating a vacuum in the tank!!!!

Simple but at the time B****** infuriating. Hope it helps someone.

Cheers

Goatherd

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Railroad.
I completely fail to understand why fuel filters are changed at mileage intervals. Mileage has nothing to do with the degradation of the filter, but time most certainly has. If a filter was renewed after two years what on earth difference would it make if the car had done 3,000 miles or 30,000 miles in that time? The filter has still been dunked in fuel for two years.

Changing a fuel filter is a very important part of vehicle maintenance, and personally I think it should be done at least once every twelve months regardless of mileage.
Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Ordovices
Why is it VERY important?
Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Railroad.
A couple of reasons immediately spring to mind.
All fuel tanks will contain water. This is unavoidable because fuel evaporates and condenses. Water in the fuel will cause corrosion, and the fuel filter is there to inhibit it which would otherwise find its way to expensive components like fuel pumps and injectors.
Over time diesel fuel degrades due to bacteria which feeds on the fuel. Again the filter which filters down to 25 microns, or less on cars of today will inhibit it, blocking the filter in the process.
Then there's the most obvious purpose. To filter out dirt in the fuel.

There's some good reasons why it's very important to change it regularly.
Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Ordovices

As a filter ages it's pores block, effectively making it an even finer filter. This increases its coalescing properties, may need to drain the coalesced water more often.

For the same reason a blocking filter will provide more particulate protection to the fuel system.

Two good reasons for not changing filters on a whim.

When a filter blocking causes performance issues, change it doing it on a miles/calendar basis is good if you sell filters.

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Railroad.
All very fascinating, and quite likely even true, but it still doesn't explain why it's recommended that filters are changed at mileage intervals, unless as you say it's only about selling filters. Surely if what you say is correct the more miles covered and the more the engine is run, the more fuel will pass through the filter rather than just sit in it and degrade.
Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Ordovices

Who is it that recommends the filter change?

Some manufacturers recommend changing the engine oil every couple of years/20,000 miles or gearbox oil never to be changed, but the most vocal posters on this forum eschew the manufacturer recommendations citing a perceived"need" to do it more frequently. So why is the official recommendation wrong about oil, but all of a sudden the manufacturers advice about fuel filters is right.

So do manufacturers have it right or wrong, or does it just depend on whether we like the advice?

Surely if what you say is correct the more miles covered and the more the engine is run, the more fuel will pass through the filter rather than just sit in it and degrade.

I don't understand the context of that statement.

I'm glad you found it fascinating, it's a very much misunderstood field.

Edited by Ordovices on 11/02/2015 at 12:24

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Railroad.
Have you ever heard of the term ' a rolling stone gathers no moss'?

My point is the fuel in any system will be subject to contamination regardless of whether or not it is actually flowing, and for this reason changing a filter at mileage intervals is nonsense. Time is very much the factor here, not miles. If anything a filter would require less frequent changes the more fuel flows through it.
Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Ordovices

Totally agree, changing the filter on a mileage basis is a waste of time and money, as is changing it on a calendar basis.

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - ManxMania

Hi Bootsie, did you ever get this problem solved?

Thanks

Mitsubishi Shogun 2008 SWB Diesel - Shogun Missbehaving - Keith Baugh

I know the posting of this problem is long since in the past, but this exactly describes a problem that I experienced on my Shogun. It was an intermittent severe loss of grunt of the engine and it tended to happen at around the same point of a repeated journey.

Eventually, my problem developed until it was happening every time I went out in the car. Engine would continue to run, but, lacked all form of power. I could creep along at a few miles per hour and if the road was flat, I could eventually build up a speed, but, always with no real power. Then suddenly, after sometimes 10's of minutes of inconvenience it would spring back to full power and remain like this for the rest of my trip.

If these are symptoms you recongise... Read on...

After I managed to get the car to a failed state on my own driveway, I was able to do some diagnostics properly.

This is what was wrong in my case and here is a simple check you can do to verify if you are having the same issue...

On this engine, to reduce the production of harmful Nitrous Oxide products there is a valve-controlled pipe that routes exhaust gasses back INTO the inlet manifold. (Yes, it connects the exhaust to the inlet!) This is ONLY suposed to happen under certain circumstances. However, on my car, the valve, which controls this 'back-venting', was sticky with tar residue which had built up over time. Under certain conditions, this sticky valve would STAY open (this was the complete loss of power scenario).

This has two undesirable effects when open at the wrong time. (1) It vents oxygen depleted gasses back into the inlet manifold. (2) It vents pressure in the inlet manifold that the TURBO tries to built up, straight out into the exhaust system. The problem can also be associated with diagnostic code P0299 - Turbo Underboost. Not because the Turbo is broken, but, because the inlet manifold effectively has a big hole in it..!

Of course conditions had to be right for the valve to become sticky, and I suspect that there was a sweet temperature spot during engine warmup that would make this happen.

Anyway.... To check.... (and fix for a fiver)...

WARNING. The following advises to BLOCK the Exhaust Gas recirculation pipe to perform a test. Please make sure you are about to BLOCK this and ONLY this pipe in your engine. If you are unsure you should not attempt it. Additionally, please do not leave the pipe in a blocked state. The proper function of the unit is to help to reduce some very nasty emmissions, so let's be responsible here.

1. take off plastic engine cover.

2. on EXHAUST side of engine, above the turbo, there is a small radiator-looking object (which is actually a heat exchanger). It has one pipe connected to the exhaust manifold and one pipe that stretches across the top of the engine to an assembly on the other side of the engine. It has two smaller water pipes connected also.

3. Where the pipe leaves the heat exchanger (on the way to the other side of the engine), there are two bolts that hold the pipe on to the exhanger.

4. Undo the two bolts slightly so that the pipe may be pulled upwards (away from the heat exchanger to make a very small gap... The pipe will be springy, but, you should be able to pull enough for a gap to be made. If not, undo the clamp mid-engine that holds the pipe steady about half way along its length.

4. Using simple aluminium FOIL, folded to be around 8 layers thick, make a small card that can be pushed through the gap made in (4) big enough to completely block the pipe.

5. re-tighten the bolts (not too tight as you may bend the flange). Just tight enough for a test run....

Now take the car for a run. If you have been having issues because of the Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve has been sticking, this action should stop it happening. (Obviously we have just stopped any recirculation gas flowing back to the inlet with our foil).

So, if this cures your problem, do not leave the foil in place...

a. remove foil and retighten recirculation pipe to its heat exchanger and retighten clamp.

b. follow the pipe to the other side of the engine.

c. the unit the pipe connects to, will be the recirculation valve. It is mounted to the inlet manifold and has what looks like a motor on the its back end. Remove the whole unit and clean the valve menchanism. Mine was covered n thick black tar. This can be removed and cleaned very simply with TURBO cleaner.

Hopefully, this information would be of use to some people out there who may have had or may yet have the problem I had...

Edited by Keith Baugh on 12/10/2016 at 15:22