Hi everyone.
Just after some advice. I am not a car dealer, but a plumber. I sold a used car which was modified on Saturday. The buyer purchased the car off ebay and paid £100.00 deposit to secure the car on Wednesday. I arranged the MOT on Thursday, which it failed and I then had the repairs done on Friday and re-tested on Friday afternoon. The buyer came Saturday morning with his brother and wanted to buy the car there and then without even driving the car. I insisted that he drove the car and didn't take any further money until he was happy with the car. I drove the car off my drive and down the road, then let him drive the rest of the way. He was happy with the car at that stage and then went to the post office to tax the car and transfer ownership. On return to the house, he paid me the remainder of the money at the agreed price.
He then drove 150 miles home in the car. On Sunday, he rang me to ask me some details on the alarm that is fitted to the car, again at this stage no problems.
On Tuesday I received a call saying that he had 'written off' the car, because the wheel had fallen off and he had an RAC or AA report stating that the wheel was 'incorrectly fitted' and that was why the wheel had fallen off. His fault reported was that the alloy wheel centering cone was fitted to the face of the hub before the wheel spacer. I stated that that was complete rubbish and was physically impossible to do and would leave a big gap between the hub and the wheel and the wheel would not fit on the studs in that order. Also that he drove the car before purchase and there was no wheel wobble or noises or any concern on the road test. I also pointed out that my son had driven the car for 5 years in 'that' condition.
He has now asked me to pay £500.00 towards the cost of the repair and he will repair the car himself as he works in a car renovation and rebuilding garage. He states it needs a new front bumper/spoiler because it is cracked and no-one knows how to use glass fibre and 2 new wings to repair the 1 damaged. Where do I stand on this. Have I any liability. He has told me to await a letter from his 'family solicitor'. I have a signed receipt stating the car is sold as seen. Also he has had the car 4 days and will have covered around 200 - 250 miles in the car since purchase. He also said that the cars bodywork is not in excellent condition and that was what he expected. I pointed out that the car is 17 years old and in very good condition for a car of its age and that he did see the car before handing over any money.
slt - and made make/model non-specific
Edited by Pugugly on 08/06/2009 at 23:07
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Call his bluff. Tell him to bring it on.
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ignore all his letters
If you want to make things far worse follow the above advice. Ignoring things always ends of disaster Bell Boy.
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no carl-a
its a ploy to snare you in to the snare of his actions
i had this a good 15 years ago when no win no fee started out
let them do the running let them have their first letter free from a genuine solicitor
wait for the next one that they have to pay for
been there got the shoes
still got the letters
you know a scam from the words
when was the last time you got an engineers report within 24 hours done dusted and posted
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I have a signed receipt stating the car is sold as seen
In a private sale, buyer has no comeback. Just inform him that you'd charge him for harassment.
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Tell him to bring it back 150 miles for you to see :-)
He's trying it on. Lucky you didn't get paid via Paypal or he'd also have all the money back by now.
Edited by rtj70 on 08/06/2009 at 23:28
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Even if you do get a letter from the 'family solicitor'...so what. The solicitor would only be acting on the instructions of his/her client.. and it is by no means binding is it. Even if the solicitor were to point out some of the legalities it would be from the one sided perspective of their client.
As Fullchat says, 'bring it on'......it's all bluster, designed to get you worried, so that you might cough something up.
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Bluff him in return with your own outrageous demands - Tell him that you are referring the matter to your family solicitor and you will to sue him for harassment and fraud; and that you are also reporting him and his garage to Ebay, Trading Standards and to the Fraud Squad. Tell him that for good may also report him to Customs and Inland Revenue for tax fraud.
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i wonder how many people roll over to this kind of thing
stiff upper lip and all that
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All good advice...looks as though he's had a bump of his own making and is maybe on 3rd party. Trying to put the blame on you. You have no responsibility...ignore him.
Chancer....good luck.
Ted
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Private sale, sold as seen, tough cookies.
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And what utter moronic carp some people are.
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This is a classic scam which crops up on various motoring boards. You sell a car, a few days later faults are found and the buyer expects you to pay.
Simple response:
"If you wanted a warranty you should have gone to a dealer. Bye."
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Bet he's not written it off, just wants some money for other mods...
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He's whistling Dixie. He'll give up very soon.
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Was the MOT failure related to that wheel that may have been removed by the MOT centre. Not that this changes the liability as you have a 'Sold as Seen' signed receipt. Regards Peter
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If what he says is true, he must be at risk for prosecution for driving an unroadworthy car.
More likely he took the wheel off and put it back wrongly.
What a coincidence he "just" happens to have a garage.
Amazing the number of people who will buy off eBay, and hand over the money without testing the car. Happened to me just recently; I took the money & ran!
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Implication of this thread is that OP is being scammed. He can check if he wants to by asking to see the report said to have been prepared by the AA or RAC.
One of the posts says that there's no comeback in a private sale. I would have thought that's correct only in a sale in which the seller is being entirely honest. If he's not, then all the normal stuff about deception and so on comes into play.
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"One of the posts says that there's no comeback in a private sale."
Any legal-types care to comment as to which, if any, circumstances would give a buyer legal comeback in a private sale?
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asking to see the report said to have been prepared by the AA or RAC.
I wouldn't be happy with even that - by what stretch of the imagination are the AA & RAC experts, and who is to say how independent the report is?
Edited by Bill Payer on 09/06/2009 at 10:59
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Neither would I, but if this is a scam it may not even exist and it's a simple way of maybe making a judgment.
As to the legal aspects of a private sale: I'd suggest again that if you sell by deception then you lay yourself open to a civil action even though you're a private seller.
Anyone think different?
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As to the legal aspects of a private sale: I'd suggest again that if you sell by deception then you lay yourself open to a civil action even though you're a private seller.
I think that's correct. The difficulty is proving the deception - dealers are expected to be experts, private sellers aren't, and enforcing any damages against someone who may not be able or willing to pay.
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True. But proving deception against a dealer isn't going to be any easier so maybe expertise isn't the point.
If someone tells you the car has done 60k miles and you find a receipt under the carpet showing 75k two weeks before, then you've got deception. I know it's an absurdly over-simplified example.
Then I suppose you'd have to go small claims court and, having won, put the bailiffs in.
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Just to be clear - the car passed the MOT retest on Friday afternoon, yes? If so then it seems unlikely ( OK not impossible) that the car would be legally checked as roadworthy ( within the limits of the MOT) Friday afternoon, and is suddenly a bodged up wreck on Saturday when sold...
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I had a similar thing happen when i sold my old car.
Buyer picked car up (after i testdrove him for 5 miles) all happy etc.
2 hours later i get a call saying he is with the AA and the car has cut out. also he wants £500 off me.
I reckon he was trying it on as i asked to speak to the AA and he wouldnt put me on.
I told him car was sold as seen and it worked when i test drove you. Never heard off him again.
You will always get someone trying to pull a fast one.
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Private sale = buyer beware, unless the car has been mis-described. But don't forget this doesn't simply mean mileage / age / engine size etc stated incorrectly but NOT declaring a (known to be) write off could also be mis-described, saying it is a "good runner" & it breaking down 2 days later could be mis-described, stating it is "in good condition" could be mis-described if the body develops rust or parts fall off in a short period of time.
Always best to simply state the facts in an advert & give a typed invoice stating the obvious defects when parting with the car
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I sold the Roomie (with 18 months Warranty) on E-Bay - I met the buyer at a railway station - he looked over the car checked VIN details tallied and he paid up. Golf sold from home by word of mouth - driver wanted a full test and time alone with it (he was insured) - still that had a warranty in it as well.
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I met the buyer at a railway station
Was that deliberate ie. avoid meeting at home? Just that as a buyer I would be suspicious of going anywhere other than seller's home.
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Deliberate and practicle - I wasn't in a hurry to sell - there were a couple of other people interested as well. He met me on my terms - he knew where I live as my name was on the V5, I was away from home when the deal was struck so it made sense - it also meant I could catch the rain back to where I came from after I was left carless. It was a good all round sale. Recommended and cost me 14.50 on e-bay due to an ongoing offer.
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" Lucky you didn't get paid via Paypal or he'd also have all the money back by now. "
There is no PayPal protection for ebay buyers of used cars.
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Well I assume Pug that he paid in readies - not wary about catching a train with that amount of cash on you?
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No - had a "minder" with me, who can look hard when required.
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"not wary about catching a train with that amount of cash on you"
Unless someone had seen him receiving the cash then who is to know he's got a wedge in his pocket? Most trains have on-board CCTV now anyway, and it's not a great place to be thieving, as the stations all have CCTV too, so anyone leaving the train will be picked up on several cameras before they leave the station.
Far bigger problem if you sell the car from home, and then shut the door. Five minutes later a few big blokes turn up, and relieve you of the cash.
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My minder kpt out of the way until the deal was done btw
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Actually ONB its very hit and miss re cctv on trains... the Pendos have them its true, but not much else, worse luck, and what there is is scattered around...
PU, I had a similar thing when I sold my Fabia, I actually collected the guy from the station and drove him back to our house!
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as a buyer I would be suspicious of going anywhere other than seller's home.
...and doing the deal anywhere else invalidates key parts of the HPi check and protection.
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We established each other's credentials initially by telephone and then in person through Passports etc. He was a dealer who wanted it to sell on.
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He was a dealer who wanted it to sell on.
They tend to be much more relaxed about the whole process than private individuals.
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did you have a rolled up copy of AT under your arm for identification purposes whilst waiting on the platform?
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No - told him to look out for the drawn looking guy in a puffa jacket - the machete was secondary identification only.
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Sovereign ring, eyebrow piercing, gold ID bracelet, mohican haircut and a forehead tattoo mate, you'll know me when ya see me.......
Motor's kushty by the way.......
;-)
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Parked 'tween the yellow Reliant Robin van an' de lime green Caprii. ;>)
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Parked 'tween the yellow Reliant Robin van an' de lime green Caprii. ;>)
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Reliant REGAL son, get it right.
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Sorry dad!
I did get the manufacturer's name first.
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He's totally scamming you but even as a private seller you have to sell a car that is for use on the road free of dangerous faults including defective braking and steering so if it was dangerous when you sold it you can be prosecuted. But we all know it wasn't. The purchaser has no come back. Sold as seen is also meaningless. The only get out for not roadworthy is 'spares or repair' but it has to be without road tax in it and you don't give them any current MOT cert I think to make sure.
Direct him to the MOT centre. They had the wheels off so if there is a genuine fault then it is down to their insurance to pay anyway. Also point out he drove the car and was satisfied at the time of purchase and a loose wheel would be obvious. Ask for a copy of the full AA/RAC report. There probably won't be one.... you could try ringing them up and asking if a report has been carried out on old your car recently. Bet they'll say no....
Say you need to know his insurance company details as you will have to go through your insurance to settle the claim... He'll go quiet. You can easily repair glass fibre. Their ignorance is no excuse. Friend of mine turned shards into a replacement front spoiler so it can be done.
Or just write 'see you in court'.
Depends on what you want to do. String him along for a bit and write a blog would be one way. Then make sure his details are everywhere so the cheating, lying git can't do it to anyone else :-)
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Direct him to the MOT centre. They had the wheels off
When did they take the wheels off?
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tell him to stuff it up his backside.
Sold my GTO on ebay 1200 miles later the guys telling me the gearbox blowing up is all my fault, i pointed him to the owners club for help and said it's sold as seen and you've done 1200miles it's nothing to do with me.
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please tell us all roughly where this joker lives so we can avoid going to his garage- cause if he can drive the car that distance and not notice a problem , heaven help the rest of his victims, oops I mean customers -
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>> Direct him to the MOT centre. They had the wheels off When did they take the wheels off?
Sorry, was jumping to conclusions. The car failed the first time so I assumed it involved taking off the wheels to do the repair. I assumed the garage that did the MOT did. If the fault was there then the MOT should have spotted a wobbly wheel. As it didn't then it looks like the wobbly wheel occurred after but being able to direct the purchaser to the last people to potentially have the wheel off would shut them up.
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but it only failed on a faulty wiper a blocked nozzle on the drivers side washer and a sidelight bulb out
for all we know as karen used to sing
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Is it just my imagination or what - that I get the feeling that this type of thread gets started every now and again where an intriguing scenario is described by a new backroomer who then never posts again? Is it a new trolling phenomenon?
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Maybe the plumber (the OP) is busy fixing boilers etc and too busy earning lots of money :-)
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I get the feeling that this type of thread gets started every now and again where an intriguing scenario is described by a new backroomer who then never posts again? Is it a new trolling phenomenon?
I wondered about this
If the facts as presented are true - it's such an obvious scam because (as correctly identified by bell boy) the alleged accident happened on Monday and on Tuesday the scammer phones and is in possession of an engineers report detailing the fault!!!
does he really expect anyone to believe the engineer could be contacted, booked, car examined, report written and delivered - all in one day.
J
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It's a shame PU deleted the car type. Would be interesting to know how much he got for a 17 year old car in order to have a demand for £500 back; knowing the (alleged) type might be "interesting".
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we never did know the make/model
i always had it as something like an mr2 with the full metal flake and splitters etc (import obviously,non of those choked up european things)
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From memory (admittedly a bad one) it was a Honda Civic - the actual derivative wasn't stated/
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies. So far, nearly 2 weeks after the sold called 'write off' for a wing and a front spoiler, no solicitors letter.
I suspect he had some form of accident, insured only 3rd party and looking for someone to foot the bill. The car was expensive even though 17 years old, but was quite heavily modified at 182 bhp in a 2 seater sports convertible del sol.. any ideas yet.
Hopefully all your answers and my suspicions were correct and has now given in to having to accept responsibility.
Anyway thanks again, will keep you informed if I do receive the letter, and yes I was rather busy as said, repairing and installing boilers, but earning a mere crust of bread :)...
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Good, hopefully thats the last you'll hear of it...
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