We are often advised here to be careful about buying ex-rental/company cars as they are often abused.
Now how exactly people abuse them?
I was examining my own driving habits whenever I got a rental car and found that I am guilty of following :)
1. Never waited engine to warm up before doing 70 mph on motorway [sometimes engine already warms up before joining motorway though].
2. Usually maintained higher speed (compared to my own car) while going over road humps or rough roads.
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I think the same caveats apply to rental car as to ex-Police cars. Unaccountably, to my mind though, some (including HJ himself?) say ex-rental cars are the best run-in, inasmuch as they have a great number of different 'driving styles' applied to them & therefore are run under the broadest range of loads & conditions. Not sometthing I'd care to gamble on though.
Personally, any rental or courtesy car I've ever driven has been treated the same as I would my own car (maybe even more cossetted in fact). I find the idea that some have to things that aren't their own property or that they'll not be held accountable for, rather reprehensible & morally dubious (no reflection or judgement on the OP btw - just my point of view). It's like we're only 'good' when we think we'll get caught out, otherwise we adopt & practise the Aleister Crowley dictum.
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I treat them the same as my own, there's no point driving recklessly with them as the hassle and cost to sort out an accident or damage is far too great. I even slow down for speed bumps the same as usual!
As for warming up, etc, many manufacturers don't even bother putting a temp guage on the car these days, and I strongly suspect that as long as you don't rev them off the limiter 2 seconds after start-up, it's difficult to do any real damage.
The only real abuse (if you would call it that) for the many hire cars that come through the hands of our household is that they always get parked out on the road on a narrow pavement (road too narrow not to) and so they probably get minor scratches from grumpy teenagers scuffing past them.
Although I've seen plenty of nasty bumps, scrapes and coffee stains on these cars caused by others, who may just treat their own cars the same anyway?
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I treat them exactly the same as I do with my own car. Bad habits are very hard to kill off,so it is best to always try to treat the hired one the same. I am by no means Mr Perfect!! I try to keep calm in heavy Dublin traffic etc etc. When I hire a people carrier normally a grand Scenic diesel 1.5. A Zaffira 1.9 diesel 2 summers ago ( fantastic roadholding and performance; but terribly hard ride and awful indicator stick,going on the other way when you tried to cancel the indicator). I hired one of the old model Picassos 1.6 diesel this last summer in Nice. More basic but did the job well. I say all this, because I often have to squeeze up tiny very hill roads near Mont Baron and park less than half an inch from the wall.I managed and never hit the wall etc very luckily!!! it goes against my grain reving an engine hard when cold. I won't do it even when hiring. Some poor sucker will buy that vehicle second hand.
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They might thrash the engine but when I had a vectra the other week it showed me my mpg - that certainly concentrated the mind.
As for scrapes, previous posts have shown that the slightest mark nowadays will get you badly stung when you return it.
Ex-rental cars at auction should be a bargain as long as you don't get caught in a bidding war!
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If I get a clean well looked after car - then that is what I give back and is driven as if it was my own vehicle.
Should they give me a dirty, unprepared 'banger' though...
...oh yes, this is open season and I will and have thrashed the guts out of such ;-)
Same goes with courtesy cars.
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I treat rental cars almost the same as my own, with one minor difference: I try to avoid very short trips in my own cars, to minimise the number of cold starts. I wouldn't be so careful with rental cars.
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Several mentions of engines being thrashed above. As all cars come with rev limiters these days, thrashing the engine isn't really possible anymore.
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As all cars come with rev limiters these days thrashing the engine isn't really possible anymore.
It depends on your definition of "thrashing".
Edited by L'escargot on 01/10/2008 at 13:47
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As all cars come with rev limiters these days, thrashing the engine isn't really possible anymore.
I would regard as going to max revs in (all) gears as 'thrashing'. I rather thought the rev limit was something to stop the immediate or instantaneous trashing or destruction of an engine, rather than a limit to prolong extended engine/gearbox/drivetrain life.
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>>I would regard as going to max revs in (all) gears as 'thrashing'.
Not really. Ford did some research (some time ago now!) where a mix of people were given a covertly instrumented car to drive for a while. With few excpetions, all the people who drove the car made insufficient use of the engine's rev range, and were changing up before the engine had really begun to produce power.
This is one reason why multi-valve engines didn't produce a large leap forward in actual vehicle performance on the road (the extra performance was there when measured in a lab) - the extra airflow potential only makes a significant difference at high engine speeds, where a 2 valve per cylinder car would be throttled by its valving, and where most people rarely use the engine.
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Not really. Ford did some research ......
Which, with all due respect, has little to do with classic 'thrashing(!).
Racing engines give max power as high revs too, but rarely last that long (about 2 races for F1?) - driving to max. the engine power is just that.
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I think the engines are capable of the thrashing, it is the suspension and drivetrain/gearbox that takes the brunt of the wear espically if they are spinning the wheels from stationary. Engines are pretty solid these days
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>>with all due respect
Leaving that aside.
It has everything to do with it. Manufacturers design the engines to use the rev range, but, people don't tend to use it fully, and as such, DD is right to say that it's difficult to damage a modern engine by revving it.
Beyond their common use of the 4 stroke cycle, there's little comparison between a racing engine and a road car engine. They are designed to perform different duties, and longevity for a racing engine is not a concern.
As I've mentioned before, motorists seem to have odd priorities. Engines, which don't tend to fail are babied and pampered, while vehicle bodies, which do still rot are left to rot. When you look at a large number of vehicles, it's clear that Oilrag is in the minority with his greasy underbody habits.
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I didn't suggest you'd damage a modern engine by by revving it to maximum - do read the post.
I said you'd shorten its life & as well as every other moving component in the drivetrain (inc. the brakes when braking) - which is what I call 'thrashing'. The point about F1 obviously didn't hit home either - even an F1 engine will last longer if it's not used to the max - hence you often see F1 drivers 'preserving' their engine for the next race (i.e. not going to 19K rpm) if it's prudent to do so.
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But cars don't get scrapped these days because engines fail - or at least not that sort of failure. Bust cambelt; failed ECU yes. But:
When did you last hear of a rebore? Replacement valves? New camshaft? Scarcely ever since 1970s cars.
1980s cars failed because the car rusted around a perfectly serviceable engine.
1990s cars are scrapped because they are pranged; because people get bored with them; because they are worthless. Rust kicks in at 15 years, but how many cars live that long?
So a 10k life as a hire car may possibly put - what? - an effective 15k miles on an engine. The days when an engine had a life of 40k are mercifully long gone. So, so what?
Edited by Mapmaker on 01/10/2008 at 17:12
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The last hire car I had - in fact, every hire car I've ever had - was driven mercilessly from cold with zero mechanical sympathy for gearbox, engine, tyres or brakes.
I always check them for scuffs though at the beginning, as they always have dings etc that aren't on the check sheet.
I was once given a Focus that had its front wing completely stoved in, that wasn't on the ding list (?). How they ' missed it' I do not know.
The last one I had was so covered in scuffs I ended up taking a few of them out with AG Paint Renovator. Bet that confused them - it came back better looking than it went out.
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The last one I had was so covered in scuffs I ended up taking a few of them out .... Bet that confused them - it came
back better looking than it went out.
If only such an attitude prevailed more widely in this country.
I'm tempted to say that you've been living in Germany too long. ;-)
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I don't "treat" it any differently to my own car but it usually ends up being revved much much more and driven harder because 99% of rental cars are pathetic in comparison to what I am used to and therefore I drive to keep my normal pace (quick, not losing speed but within the limits of the law and as economically as is reasonable)
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I regularly give my own cars 'the boot', and have no issue whatsoever in taking a petrol engine to about 1000 revs below redline. Drive around for short distances in 3rd gear at 60mph, round town in 2nd etc etc.
Does them no harm whatsoever, and indeed as far as some parts are concerned (brakes, clutches) using revs to control speed over short runs of road results in far less wear than constant braking and changing gear ever would.
Don't treat hire cars any differently. If they don't like how I drive, tough.
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>>Does them no harm whatsoever
Indeed. I once hired a Megane and complained bitterly on here it had no guts at sensible revs. "16 valves?" I was asked. It doesn't start pulling until 4000 rpm.
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In my work i've seen some driving by rental company staff that would make your hair stand, i think the average renter probably babies rental cars in comparison.
I should really have measured the distance that cars would be airborne over the speed humps at a certain airport rental section.
Apparently revving the guts out of an engine does no harm, well it certainly does harm to my ears and senses when some lout gets valve bounce on an engine that was started 5 seconds earlier, and then leaves the ground over the 4 speed humps in question, the planes taking off alongside couldn't compete with the screaming engines in the car park.
Edit, when looking at an ex renter, have a butchers under the front at the valance and undertray for evidence of heavy landings..;)
Edited by gordonbennet on 01/10/2008 at 19:57
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Some do - and some don't - I ran 300 self drive vans and cars and found that some treated them as a tool to do a job and that was OKish - while others thought that to get value they had to abuse them in every way possible, and try doing things they wouldn't consider on anything they owned - some people are pigs - it takes all sorts as they say - would I buy a second hand exfleet/self drive car - not unless I had the chance to check its history and give it a very careful check over and trial run, and it had a bit of factory guarantee left on it.
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I hire about three times a year usually and don't give it much thought. I certainly wouldn't abuse a car just because I don't own it, although I hired a vile, gutless, crude, insipid, wretched VW Polo last year in Rome that I hated so much I really wanted to destroy it. Unfortunately it didn't seem bothered by any of the abuse I gave it.
Funniest thing I ever hired was a Yugo 45 for a tenner, when I was a student. I nearly killed myself - laughing. More fun than the Polo though.
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As all cars come with rev limiters these days thrashing the engine isn't really possible anymore.
I was given a hired Astra when the previous shape had just been launched (1997/R reg) to go on a 2-day course with. It had 4,500 miles on the clock and would rev round to the red line in the lower gears, but wouldn't go over 99mph in either 4th or 5th. The book top speed was 114mph so I can only imagine the rental company had doctored the engine management in some way, presumably reversible on disposal?
FWIW before I took it home from the office the night before the course, my depot manager(!) took it for a spin around the yard, wheelspinning and handbrake turning like Russ Swift, for a good 5 minutes. Don't think I'd buy one.
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Some hire companies used to put a restrictor plate between the carb and the intake to stop punters from over-revving or crashing them. I drove one like that once, Mk II Cortina I think, and it was so dangerously slow you actually wanted to crash it, or kill it in some way at least.
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AIUI some modern FIATs log "over-revving" events somewhere in the engine management - total number, but not necessarily when.
Fine and dandy, until you get warrantee work refused because of mischief done previously.
Quite how you "over-rev" an engine these days is another discussion, and whether or not the dealer could clear the log, or be aware of it on the ex rentals some of them sell is a moot point.
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Select too low a gear, watch revs climb into the red zone. Rev limiter doesn't prevent car driving the engine to new PB revs:)
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SWMBO used to work for one of the major car rental companies, and her stories of what people got up to in hire cars would put me off more than how they were driven. As has been said above, modern engines have a whole raft of electronic protection to make damage through mechanical abuse quite difficult.
No, it was her stories of what they found in cars when they were returned. Used "artefacts" that, let's just say were very unpleasant and presented major hygiene risks. It wasn't uncommon for the police to enquire a few days after a car came off hire what it was doing in a certain area of town at a certain time of night driving very slowly with its occupant attracting the attention of women of a certain occupation....
Cheers
DP
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Ever watched minis being raced. You find that when they are nose to tail then they go faster.
I was in one of a pair of hire cars in Spain. I can't remember quite what they were. I can remember that they were very slow, 82mph max I think, though this went up to 86mph when the bumpers were touching.
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Like those lines of 15 Golf GLs and BMW 318s doing 130mph on the German Autobahns... The more there are in the train the faster it can go.
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Most of the rental cars I hire are automatic by default - usually Korean made bland mobiles in Israel - so inclination to rev very high is limited.....
However, I rented a Pug 307 a few years ago in Nice. It was so slow, even James May would weep. It loosened up nicely once it had visited the rev limiter driving away from the 'peage' stalls a few times. I have never driven a car quite so hard before, but it certainly seemed to welcome the thrashing. A few months later I had a similar experience in a Fiat Doblo diesel (non-turbo) which really wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. By the end of two weeks, it was a lot smoother, quicker and more economical. It just needed a lengthy Italian tune-up; which it got.
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