news.intranetics.co.uk/articles/3192.html
All pretty words but what will happen?
Especially when the following is an example of todays situation.
From Auto Express
"The Driving Standards Agency (DSA) gave L-tutors until the end of the year to pass its hazard perception test. But with only a few days left, it says 1,255 still haven't done the exam.
Learner drivers have been sitting the computer-based assessment for more than four years, and can't qualify without it. The DSA has warned that instructors have to pass the exam too, and licences would be removed if they haven't. Tutors could even face prosecution if they continue to teach. The test uses video clips to assess awareness of road hazards, and the pass mark is a score of 57 out of a possible 75."
From the original article..
"Mr Ladyman ruled out proposals for a new driver curfew and ban on carrying passengers, deeming such measures too difficult to enforce."
How about getting current measures enforced? Traffic police maybe??
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During eighteen years as a driving instructor I witnessed the test go from fairly simple to the present far more searching and longer version. Far from accidents among newly qualified drivers decreasing, the number of ex-pupils who wrote off their cars within a short time of passing seemed to dramatically increase. It may seem a strange opinion to hold, but I believe the test became too tough, and this is the reason young drivers are having a disproportunate number of accidents.
Look at it this way. When I took my test, it was basically a run round town with maybe a trip on a 40 or 50mph dual carriageway where the examiner could assess whether you had control of the car and knew how to apply the basic rules of the road. When you passed, the words you heard were, "I would like you to continue learning to drive, but I'm pleased to tell you that you've passed". You went out into the world nervously, fully aware that you were a rookie with a great deal still to learn, and as such you showed a fair bit of respect to the business of driving a car. The test has changed dramatically since then, with a great deal of emphasis on NSL roads, where the candidate is expected to show he/she can drive at the legal limit. I had pupils fail for going just below 55mph on a 60 limit..
And that is the problem. Today's system is turning out highly trained drivers who have been encouraged to drive like experienced drivers. Only they are not experienced drivers, they are novices. Travelling at 60mph on an A road with the ditch two feet on your left and oncoming traffic two feet the other side is ok if you are an experienced driver, it is one twitch away from disaster if you are not. But these youngsters have been encouraged to drive like that by their instructors who know that if they don't they will be failed for not making progress. No matter how much training people get, until they build up enough experience on their own, taking their own decisions without promptings from someone else, whether verbally or just by reading the instructors body language. new drivers do not read the signs that make an experienced one lift off in time, such as the subtle little curve in the road with a degree of adverse camber, or the fact that they are going to be alongside the cyclist ahed just as the truk coming towards them will be passing. Neither do they understand how quickly a car can lose traction if you need to alter direction at speed. The feel for impending disaster comes through experience, not training.
I believe the best way to make newly qualified drivers safer is to impose restrictions for two years after passing their tests, not by tinkering with the present test in the hope that one day we will find the holy grail of driving tests that will solve all our problems. Restrictions on engine size, night time curfews and a ban on carrying passengers unless supervised by a qualified driver over 21 and with a licence held for over three years. I would bet many new driver accidents are caused by peer pressure from mates to "Floor it". This proposed legislation is going to make learning to drive too expensive in a world where teenagers are encouraged to stay in education instead of going to work, and you can bet that the result will be no reduction in new driver accidents but a lot more illegal drivers.
Typed in a hurry, apologies for the bits that don't make sense.
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The above makes sense to me Robin. My son (21) passed his test in August 2005; prior to that he had driving lessons and plenty of opportunity to 'practice' with me. The road a mile from my house is fairly narrow NSL with grass verges and a drainage ditch that a car could disappear in, just as you describe. LGVs have created 'troughs' between the road surface and the verge that you really don't want to get into. Just to add spice there are some dodgy cambers and undulations.
Just before he took his test, my son drove me down this road at close to 60mph - he was clearly very tense, and I suggested gently that he back off a bit to give himself a better safety margin. That was when he told me that his instructor had told him he must try to drive at or near the speed limit, otherwise he risked failing for making insufficient progress. How mad is that? Better surely to train people not to drive at speeds they feel uncomfortable with, without fear of being denied a licence if thos speeds are reasonable in relation to conditions and their experience.
I'm pleased to say he has more common sense than whoever created this policy, if it is one - he's now a very risk-averse driver who drives the same stretch at 40-45 (and I know it's not just when I'm with him - I secretly monitor the brake dust on his wheels and his tyre wear!)
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One thing they perhaps need to introduce is a change from the 57/75 pass. That represents missing 1 in three potential dangers. They should have say 90% requirement, together with a few "hot" examples where a miss on just that one means failure. This could screen out quite a few with the wrong attitude.
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There are two potentially workable solutions in my view:
1. Ban new drivers from carrying passengers for x months after passing the test. From what I've seen, young people only drive like idiots if they're trying to impress someone, and they're also not aware of how extra weight significantly affects the vehicle's handling. At the worst if they crash into a tree they only kill themselves.
2. It's painfully obvious that a young driver who has modified their car drives, in general, like an idiot. There should be a blanket ban on making significant changes to a car - ie, lowering suspension, fitting dump valves etc. Being caught driving such a car should lose someone their license.
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"It's painfully obvious that a young driver who has modified their car drives, in general, like an idiot."
I don't agree. There is a huge industry built around the thousands of young lads who spend a high proportion of low salaries "modding" their cars and wouldn't dream of driving in such a manner as to prang them, scuff them or attract police attention. There are many folk who could learn some lessons from them in taking care of their vehicles.
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Open question to the floor - when was the last time you saw a young driver who had fitted a car with bulging alloys, industrial bean can exhaust, suspension an inch off the ground, dump valves that just make noise, enormous spoilers, and my personal favourite, blue LED washer jets... - driving sensibly?
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>>when was the last time you saw a young driver who had...........
Around here I would say that they usually do, although perhaps somewhat louder than I like.
The two issues we seem to see are idiots in their early 20s with old 3 Series BMWs and the kids in their Corsa/106/Saxo completely bog-standard but driven by fools.
Seems that the kids who sepnd money on their cars are more careful
I try to keep my neck wound in as far as possible with young and silly drivers, mostly because I blush every time I remember what I was like at that age.
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TBH David, not very often. They guy's who moddify their cars are generaly the propper petrol heads who DO understand how a car works etc.
I'm still young enough to remember my days or being a new driver, in my very highly customised VW Beelte. On reflection I probably did have a lot of the typical young lad indestrucablity about me, buy also knew that having a heavily moddified car meant that the boys in blue payed close attention to me, so I didn't do any of the racing down the high street against a Vauhall Nova etc.
In my veiw the curfew for new drivers and a strict limit on the number of passengers would be the best route to take.
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>>In my veiw the curfew for new drivers and a strict limit on the number of passengers would be the best route to take.
And as soon as they have developed a camera to enforce it.............................................
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Fair piont Mark.
But in general, most new drivers will follow the rules, they might not like the rules, but they will follow them. The ones that wont are the ones that wont follow any rules anyway. At least those would stand out more than the majority of law abiding motorists.
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Not often in my part of the world, they are certainly out numbered by the amount of young lads driving like morons in standard production cars
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I don't believe it is a question of young drivers lacking skills.
Young men take risks; Period!!
The level of training they receive, and the difficulty of the test, will not alter that fact.
Like Mark, I too shudder to think of the things I did as a young man - not just driving. - like skiing a Black run(well attempting to) with a skill level that was barely sufficient for a nursery slope.
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Absolutely spot on Cardew.
For instance, introduce skid control training into the test as has been suggested in the past, and the result will be scores of young men out on the roads demonstrating the four wheel drifts they have been taught to do.
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OK, so how about this idea:
Don't spend any more money developing the test, instead, put it towards old bangers in airfields, supervised driving off the road but in controlled environments - have 2 in every county and encourage young drivers to visit these.
We could have simulated situations like cardbord cars etc pulling out infront of drivers and awareness of actual stopping distances. Knowing them off by heart for my test IMO did nothing to help me on the road.
Excellent use of older cars that no one wants, a bit of fun for the young lads and lasses and maybe a route into other motorsport for some.
Yes, young people do take risks. I've been (in a car) with a young girl I used to work with driving and was scared stiff. She was just showing off for some reason. So it's not just a man thing.
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