To be honest, I can't understand why anyone would be too bothered by this sort of thing. If I ask a question in an open forum about what car I should buy and get answers I don't agree with for whatever reason who cares? Just move on to the next one. However, unless I've actually scruitinised, analysed and maybe even tested all of the possible contenders, someone out there might just be suggesting something far better that I've overlooked in which case I'd be delighted. Equally, if the reason for my ignoring a particular model, marque or whatever is based on information which is out of date or just plain wrong, I might even be persuaded to think again.
So, this sort of thing doesn't bother me at all - it's what a discussion forum is all about isn't it?
What annoys me at times are those who insist on hijacking threads only to post that they're boring, have been discussed before or whatever. If a thread's boring don't read it but don't try to deprive others (especially all the newer BackRoomer's) of the chance to discuss a topic which is valid and they find interesting.
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I have no doubt the Mondeo is a very worthy car. But Ford have only themselve sto blame for their image (or lack of it).
For whatever reason in the 19990s , they kept the Fiesta range going for 14years with the same body and ignored the newer and better competitors.
For 20 years they kept producing cars that rusted far worse than the German competition (Sierra vs Golf/Passat).
For 20 years they ignored the move to diesel engines either using other's old one (Peugeot) or using a 1.8 diesel until 2001 which was out of date in 1991.
And now they want us to think a blue badge is comparable to a prestige brand?
Yes I know the Focus is good. As is the Mondeo.
But they have at least 20 years image of boring/reliable but badly finished cars to remove and you don't do that in one decade..
They paid £1billion for Kwikfit in 1999, sold it for £350M 3 years later . Instead of investing in new models.
My heart bleeds for them:-)
madf
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For whatever reason in the 1990s , they kept the Fiesta range going for 14years with the same body and ignored the newer and better competitors. For 20 years they kept producing cars that rusted far worse than the German competition (Sierra vs Golf/Passat). For 20 years they ignored the move to diesel engines either using other's old one (Peugeot) or using a 1.8 diesel until 2001 which was out of date in 1991. And now they want us to think a blue badge is comparable to a prestige brand? Yes I know the Focus is good. As is the Mondeo. But they have at least 20 years image of boring/reliable but badly finished cars to remove and you don't do that in one decade.. They paid £1billion for Kwikfit in 1999, sold it for £350M 3 years later . Instead of investing in new models.
All good points, and I never realised the 1.8 diesel was that old (The Endura DI/DE I take it?) The 1.8TD literally had a turbo strapped to it didn't it? It wasn't a new engine design from scratch was it?
What Peugeot disel do you mean?
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What Peugeot disel do you mean?
Presumably the very old 2.3 Diesel which was not particularly refined nor economical.
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Presumably the very old 2.3 Diesel which was not particularly refined nor economical.
Speaking of which, according to Parkers the 1.9TD in 306's only manages 42 MPG! Hence why I'm going for the 2.0 HDI.
I thought a diesel should have been way more econmical than that even with a turbo attached - apparently the HDI can do 65mpg on a run...
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Yes the Endura diesel.. obsolete when introduced. A bag of nails and maintenance unfriendly.
The old 2.3 Peugeot diesel was used in the Granada.
Give Ford credit: they built their new diesels as a JV with Peugeot..
madf
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Hey - lighten up Kev.
I for one would be disappointed if Michael didn't in his pitch for a Mondeo TDCi at every opportunity.
In fact, it's getting to the point that you'll never guess what car I really aspire to now . . . :-)
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sorry - make that "didn't get in his pitch"
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Speaking of which, according to Parkers the 1.9TD in 306's only manages 42 MPG! Hence why I'm going for the 2.0 HDI. I thought a diesel should have been way more econmical than that even with a turbo attached - apparently the HDI can do 65mpg on a run...
I know loads of people who get more like 50mpg from the 1.9TD - since when has parkers even been right about anything?
The Hdi can get some high MPG figures if you take things steadily on a run. Even when driven hard you'll struggle to get under about 45mpg
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mr coloured fish
if i were to divert the topic a little
these new semi automatic diesel corollas
have you driven one? whats it like? any feedback?
would it be worth considering versus a normal petrol fully auto corolla?
only ask on behalf of the dodgy left knee brigade that do not want a clutch, but maybe would like extra economy of diesel
how many miles would you have to do to make it finacially worthwhile going for one over the other
do we think they will be reliable long term?
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I presume you mean the 1.4 D4D MMT - it's not a bad engine although it's not the most powerful and i wouldn't like to think what it would be like combined to the auto box. I have driven one but only briefly so can't really say what their like.
As for reliability it is a toyota so you should be OK and the MMT box has been used in pretty much all the toyota range for a few years now with no untoward reports.
With regards to is it financially worthwhile i would generally say 20k miles upwards is best for diesel but also remember that come trade in time the diesel will be worth more than the petrol version.
Anyway i'm sure you'd find a Mondeo TDCi a much better proposition.
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well one of the sites is quoting discounted prices that put a 1.4 d4d mmt t3 at 500 quid more than a 1.6 petrol auto t3, so the price difference is not much
wonder how much slower they are in practise
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Yes they are about £500 more expensive but i'd imagine the gap would be the same when you come to sell it if not slightly better for the diesel.
I have found that sometimes the diesel auto's work better than the petrol version as the power is lower down on the diesel rather than being at the end of the rev range like a petrol.
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ok Mondeo TDCi it is then
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HJ, I seem to recall you posting previously that a £10k BMW is £5k worth of car and £5k status, whereas a £5k Mondeo is £5k worth of car (or something along those lines). This is a big reason a Mondeo appeals to me, and why we are considering one to replace the dead Rover.
Ed.
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HJ makes an excellent point.
Example A applies more to companiers like Ford, Renault etc. The list price of their cars is far higher than what they actuall retail for to the public.
Example B applies mainly to BMW, Merc etc. whose list prices much more closely reflect what the car actuall sells for.
I agree to an extent with Blue Haddock though, regulars will know that there are few people who are bigger fans of the Ford brand than I am, but even I reckon that the Mondeo is gettins used as an answer to almost every question regardless of suitabiity.
I have to disagree with people who reckon the brand has been dull for the last 20 years, I reckon Ford have always (throughout my lifetime) had more interesting products than their main rivals Vauxhall, although, unfortunately this is now reversing, Ford vehicles are becoming duller with every launch IMO while Vauxhall are upping their game and making their cars more interesting. New Focus vs New Astra anyone?
The old Focus kicked the old Astra into the middle of next week for everything from styling to driving, whereas the new Focus beats new Astra on one thing only and that is driving, it lags behind in terms of looks and pretty much everything else I reckon. Which is hard for me to say as a die hard Ford fan, I only hope they get their act together soon.
Blue
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The old Focus kicked the old Astra into the middle of next week for everything from styling to driving, whereas the new
Focus beats new Astra on one thing only and that is driving, it lags behind in terms of looks and pretty much everything else I reckon. Which is hard for me to say as a die hard Ford fan, I only hope they get their act together soon.
Hi, While I might come across as pro Ford I am certainly not anti Vauxhall having had a few in my time from Cav TD to Vectra V6 however I must disagree re the new Focus and Astra. Although the new Focus hatch does not look brilliant from the rear it looks a lot better in forthcoming ST trim and the saloon and estate are crackers, however I would not say that the Astra is a great looking car. The one thing the Astra has going for it is great petrol engines and the 150 ps 1.9 diesel is good though not as torquey as either Ford/PSA 2.0 TDCi in the Focus/C-Max or the Ford 2.0 TDCi (130) in the Mondeo. Regards.
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Hi HJ,
Couldn't agree more, re the guy chossing an A6, yes it is nice to be spending someone else's money on a 25 grand car (I have been there and done it and now run my own Mondeo TDCi) however the difference in cost to the driver via BiK and Co2 between, for instance an A6 2.7 TDi and a Mondeo Ghia X 2.2 TDCi is vast particuarly when the latter is both quicker, more fun to drive, and at least as well equipped, only lacking the snob factor.
Regards.
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Thing to do is arrange a test drive of an Audi A6, then immediately afterwards a test drive of a Mondeo. While you drive the Mondeo, keep repeating to yourself, "this car costs at least ten grand less." HJ
Couple of weeks ago my '98 Vectra 2.00 CDX Estate went in for service and I had the loan of a '98 Audi 80 Convertible or whatever they call the thing. It was the boss's own car and he said, "The only thing I'm worried about in lending it to you is that you won't want the Vectra back." Well, the Audi was nice, but I didn't think it was any better to drive than my own motor and it certainly hadn't got all the goodies mine's got. The image thing plays a big part in all this and frankly, I'm long past caring about image! Total reliability, comfort, lots of toys, driveability that I'm happy with, all of which my Vectra has, is all I'm interested in. I suspect that the Mondeo market thrives on folk like me but although I know they're good cars, I vowed never to buy another Ford 40 years ago after I got rid of the 1953 Anglia, my first car and a real nail! However, am considering an A4 Estate as my next car so suppose I'm not as lacking in image consciousness as I like to make out! >>
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A couple of examples that spring to mind recently are a chap who was looking at things like Impreza?s, Mitsi Evo?s or BMW coupes as B Road blasters ? sure enough someone suggests a Mondeo TDCi.
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A car that is great to drive accross countr with good fule economy and range wer two of the main criteria hence Mondeo TDCi being suggested, quite legitimately.
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Sorry, forgive my spelling.
A car that is great to drive across country with good fuel economy and range were two of the main criteria hence the Mondeo TDCi being suggested, quite legitimately.
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>I agree to an extent with Blue Haddock though, regulars will >know that there are few people who are bigger fans of the Ford >brand than I am, but even I reckon that the Mondeo is gettins >used as an answer to almost every question regardless of >suitabiity.
And that my dear blue basically sums up my feelings.
>A car that is great to drive across country with good fuel >economy and range were two of the main criteria hence the >Mondeo TDCi being suggested, quite legitimately
But surely not even the most blinkered ford fan can honestly think a mondeo turbo diesel would be considered along with a Mitsi Evo, an Impreza or a Beemer Coupe? A mondeo is not a top end sports car.
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Have you considered the Focus Kev? An excellent range of hatchbacks, estates and saloons. I've heard the more discerning driver plumps for the sumptuous lines of the saloon with it's cavernous boot and powerful Zetec engines.
Sorry - couldn't resist. ;-)
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Adam
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Does the discerning driver also prefer a kind of metallic sick colour?
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That's hurtful. Very hurtful. ;-)
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Adam
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The answer is not always the Mondeo TDCi.
However the problem with the Mondeo is that it costs from £5k to £17k for a current shape one, has enough space and performance for 95% of drivers, is generally reliable, cheap to service and cheap to buy.
A lot of people (not regulars) who post on here don't really know where the baseline is on a car - does it need to be a prestige/performance car, or just better than their current one? A Mondeo is a good baseline for that, even if they buy a V70/A6/Méganesport 225/a 1.0 Yaris and a new conservatory in the end, at least they have a pretty good idea what they're actually paying for.
Is it necessarily the best choice? Probably not, most of the time, but it is right up there often enough to make it a good way to gauge if nothing else what their preferences really are. "Why not a Mondeo?" is a very concrete way of saying "So what do you really want?"
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