Motorbikes overtaking

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
View Threaded
Thu 22 Apr 2004 22:24
Motorbikes overtaking - BobbyG
I am sure this must have been covered before but can't find anything on the forum search.
What exactly are the rules regarding motorbikes overtaking on motorways when they cut through the lines of traffic?
Coming home tonight on 2 lane M8, a motorcyclist was cutting in and out of traffic, trying to go down the middle of the 2 lanes, weaving in and out.
I would expect if a car moving from one lane to the other hit the bike, then it would be the car driver's fault for not seeing him, but when I check my mirrors on the motorway, I usually am checking them to see the other lane, not necessary the line between the 2 lanes, if you see what I mean?
What are motorcyclists taught to do in this situation? Are they taught to stay in the line of traffic or to progress through the traffic, one car at a time?
Technically speaking are they overtaking the inside lane, or undertaking the outside lane?

Either way, I think the motorcyclists are acting stupidly doing this, no matter whose fault it is, there will be one person who comes off the worst!
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 22 Apr 2004 23:16
Motorbikes overtaking - Cardew
There have been many threads on the behaviour, or rather misbehaviour, of motorcyclists. These threads always degenerate into 'bikers are idiots' or 'car drivers are idiots and/or jealous of bikers'

On your specific question. IMO the bikers are illegally, but more important dangerously, undertaking when they go in between fast moving lanes of traffic. Such a remark is usually the cue for self-righteous posts from drivers and bikers to tell us how well they behave.

One thing we can agree on - the law of physics is not on the side of bikers!
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 03:41
Motorbikes overtaking - THe Growler
Lane splitting is why I have a bike. Also why I'm sitting at home with feet up cracking open the first coldie of the evo and tuning in to the 6 p.m CNN News while most of the rest of humanity is cursing its luck trying to get of the J67 or something exit.

Holier than thou cagers as usual. Somehow they seem to think they own the road.


Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 04:59
Motorbikes overtaking - THe Growler
...oh and for the eco-greenie open-toed sandal organic vegetable brigade out there I use less road space, create no parking problems, use less of those natural resources you're always telling us we're depleting and what's more I have to put up with your exhaust fumes and watching you wander from lane to lane while you're on your cellphone, the fact you don't know what your mirrors are for, the fact that you got up this morning before you woke up, the diesel you spill when you fill up....I could go on. I'm a lot more of a careful and prepared user than you are, for exactly the reasons given. I'm more vulnerable.

Anyway I bet I have more fun than you do. So there.

Sorry for rant. But you know I'm right. Got Growlette in hospital, not my day, she's not too good.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 09:17
Motorbikes overtaking - SR
BobbyG,

From your references to the M8, I reckon we must inhabit the same roads some of the time!

I reckon there's no problem in bikes coming through between lanes of stationary traffic, or up the outside. I'm less comfortable with them weaving in and out of 2 lanes of moving traffic, because there's the danger of them not being seen as they're not following the "expected" pattern of traffic. Also, when they duck into a lane they're often taking up a car's safe braking distance. However, if they want to take the risk it's up to them.

The one habit I do NOT like is when they go through between two cars that are next to each other in adjacent lanes. I have seen this done at fairly high speed on the M8.

I think you can often tell from the way a bike is being handled whether a motorcyclist is riding safely within the capabilities of his/her machine and himself(/herself), and with regard to the safety of others. There are some idiots, just like there are some idiots driving cars.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 09:18
Motorbikes overtaking - Cardew
Morning Growler,
How is the eco V8 running?

Hope nothing serious with Growlette.

C
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 10:53
Motorbikes overtaking - Clanger
There's an anomaly here; the Highway Code urges motorists to give bikers as much room as a car, but, given 2 lines of stationary or slow traffic, most bikers (me included) will split lanes and make some progress and use less space than a car. I don't think that car drivers enjoy seeing bikers make good use of their mobility and some ignorant souls will even try to impede the bike's progress. Some bikers I know wear armoured gloves to belt a passing door mirror and toe sliders to kick car doors if they consider they have been cut up.
I think it all boils down to what each party considers "safe", and we're never going to agree on that. My own view is that it's OK to split lanes if traffic is congested and moving at 25mph or less. More experienced 2-wheelers laugh at my timidity and will undertake if traffic is travelling at 70mph and they want to do 90.
With a bit of luck, next month, I will be finding out what the local IAM bike group has to say on the subject.
One thing is certain in all this; biking rocks! Grin grin grin.
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 12:22
Motorbikes overtaking - PAJ
I've seen plenty of cars move over to deliberately prevent a bike "undertaking" in queueing traffic. As a motorist I generally don't mind bikes cutting through the traffic, as long as they do it sensibly. The number of idiots who cut between the 2 lanes at really high speed - they just don't stand a chance if a car decides to change lanes without looking. And yes, it'd be the car's fault even though it was the biker being more irresponsible.

Having said I "don't mind" them cutting through the traffic, it is still pretty infuriating when the bike gets to the front of the queue and then expects to occupy a full space in the middle of the lane as if they're a car. Best of both worlds for them I guess.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 12:32
Motorbikes overtaking - SjB {P}
Enough's been said many times before about bike undertaking, so I'll keep it brief.
I filter at every safe opportunity at low and medium speed, but never undertake on a motorway or dual carriageway.
On single carriageway roads, with planning and extreme alertness, it's one of the reasons I ride a bike. GRowler and I are on the same page here, with better things to do than fester in a jam (though I'm no fan of any Hog pre V-Rod!) ;-)

There are other reasons, too.

SWMBO's 306 needed a new waterpump fitting today, so rather than take the V70 to bring her back home, I rode the 40 miles over to our usual Pug Indy on the Hornet. 06:30am departure from home, hardly a car on the road, and a beautiful, beautiful, spring morning. A bit nippy, but boy did if feel good to be alive. Whether it was getting a fast sweeper spot on, rhythm flowing, or pottering through 30 limits at or below the speed limit, I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather have been, or been doing. What a great, intense, feeling to be alive.

Coming back, with missus kitted up and Autocom connected (the best 300 quid I've ever spent on a biking accessory), we might have been on holiday. Normally, mornings are a quick kiss and "See ya later", but this was different. Quality time. Getting close to home - must have been nearly 08:30 but who care about fitting a clock to a bike! - main road traffic was building. Brain remaining firmly in gear, the wind on, wind off, pause, wind on, wind off, pause, etc routine that followed was still infinitely better than trundling along in the crocodile, brain in neutral as so many plod to work.

As you can tell, this put me in a great mood that'll last the rest of the day.
Perhaps bikes for all is a tonic that this country needs?

Can't wait for the run back this evening...
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 12:48
Motorbikes overtaking - BrianW
Can't think where I've seen this, but my view and practice is that if the bike is doing 30mph maximum (meaning that the other traffic is doing less), then it's reasonable to lane split.

Regarding going betweeen vehicles running parallel, it's actually safer to do this since you can be reasonably certain that neither is going to do an instant lane change.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 13:38
Motorbikes overtaking - patently
Seems to me that there are stupid unsafe bikers and that there are stupid unsafe drivers. Both of them are a risk to themselves and those around them. Except that the stupid unsafe drivers are more likely to survive a crash. So there tend to be more of them.

By and large, I don't worry if they undertake me. Why should I? They won't be in my way later - they'll be long gone. And why trap an angry biker next to my door panel when I could let him go instead? I'll look out for one undertaking because I'd rather not be involved in an accident especially if he's going to be seriously injured, but if I don't notice his illegal move despite looking then there's plenty of metal between his bike and me.

What I don't like is bikers who gesticulate to suggest that any danger they caused was my fault. After all, while doing so they are:

(a) right in front of me and very close, and

(b) not looking where they are going

There are old bikers, and there are bold bikers. But there are no old, bold bikers...
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 19:37
Motorbikes overtaking - BobbyG
Regarding going betweeen vehicles running parallel, it's actually safer to do this since you can be reasonably certain that neither is going to do an instant lane change.

Mmm - would have to disagree on this one - how many times have you seen cars switching lanes not realising there is another car in their blindspot?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 19:43
Motorbikes overtaking - BobbyG
Going back to my original post, both lines of traffic were travelling at approx 50 mph whilst the bike was weaving in and out.
I am in no way anti-bike. I think bikers are a specific breed, they get huge adrenalin rushes through riding the bike, wind in the hair etc.
Its just that I feel that bikes will always come off 2nd best to a car or worse, bus or HGV. So why tempt this by weaving in and out of cars, trailers, double axles?
Yes, as Growler says, you may well get home 5 mins earlier, (and if it was torrential rain then the car driver will be sitting dry on the couch before the motorcyclist), but surely every completed journey driving like that is just bringing you closer to the journey where you won't make it?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 21:41
Motorbikes overtaking - THe Growler
The point about cagers harassing bikers is a good one.

I make no case for bad riding, nor would I ever. The person I care for most in this world is often trustingly sat behind me with her arms around me and there is absolutely no way I would willingly put her in harm\'s way.

But a bike is a bike, it has capabilities cars do not, and that is one of the reasons bikers bike. As said they also put up with weather conditions and accept the calculated risks of riding against the increased vulnerability. Among these capabilities include the ability to make faster progress in congested traffic.

Not for me to make any arguments for the pro-biker group which have not been made already but I would have thought that most authorities looking at traffic issues would give two wheelers a fair go.

Personally I feel very safe on a powerful bike, I can out-run anything on my HD oh yes even a Porsche away from the lights ==which is a form of security. I do give cagers so far as I can the respect I would like to get myself (but alas all too often don\'t).

But if all else fails you know the old biker rule. Couple of old spark plugs can really mess up a windscreen. Dot 3 fluid makes nasty marks on paint jobs. Remember you didn\'t hear it first here.

No I could never agree with that but I know it happens.

Growlette (Catherine) has just done her MC Safety Foundation Course and her comments are illuminating. I think in fairness to HJ\'s bandwith they are too long to be posted here but she would happily share them offline if requested. Her insights taught me as ever that you never stop learning.

Perhaps we should paraphrase the old airline adage: There are old bikers, and bold bikers, but few old bold bikers (hey I\'m still hangin\' in).....

Please everyone try and respect everyone else on the road. I mean you wouldn\'t shove in front of everyone at the supermarket check in or the bank would you? Manners, my Mum always said, maketh Man. (In this excerably putrified PC age can we please accept that \"Man\" encompasses all of the 4 genders currently accepted by the Eurotopians for the sake of this discussion)?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Apr 2004 19:52
Motorbikes overtaking - Civic8
Untill you misjudge clobber a lorry and spread out all over the road.then its the lorry drivers fault.heard it all before:-(
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 11:53
Motorbikes overtaking - DazSV
I remember years ago when I first learned to ride a scooter at age 16 (that was all I was allowed to ride on the road) I had a top speed of 30mph but was legally allowed to drive on roads with a limit of up to 40mph. When I did this cars would get angry, even sitting on a road with a 30 limit, cars would sit inches behind me getting all frustrated. On a daily basis I would get lights flashed at me, and occasionally horns tooted. So thats okay for cars to do, but when I get on my powerful bike and sit behind a car who insists on doing 50mph in the outside lane of the motorway, I'm not allowed to undertake him, even though I wont be getting in anyones way, and I would be endangering how many people for how long exactly? One second, maybe two?

I am a firm believer and am in agreement of the study made about a year ago regarding "boredom" on the road.

A driver (be it a bike or a car) travelling at 50mph on a large, open road, such as a motorway, is boring. Maybe a lot of people who use thier cars to get to the shops and to visit thier sister at the weekend for some tea and biscuits dont find driving an enjoyment, but they should respect those who do. They are the ones who are always telling younger people to respect them when they drive thier trolleys over your toes in the supermarket. I, along with a lot of other drivers, use thier vehicle primarily as a method of transport, but might as well enjoy the journey. If I am forced to sit at 50mph I can garuntee you I will get bored and start counting the trees or something, but if you let me do 70 I will be more focused, because I will have something worth focusing on. I feel this is LESS dangerous.

I used to listen to my family and friends who would lecture me on "undertaking" on multi-lane roads, but I have to say, if I count the number of times I do that and compare it to the number of examples of poor lane discipline I see from car drivers, I say 50% of car drivers have a cheek to talk. I see cars changing lanes on roundabouts, something I never do on my bike. I see cars sitting in the overtaking lane when they are not overtaking anything, something I never do on my bike. I see cars failing to use indicators before turning or changing lane, something I never do on my bike. And I see a LOT more than that.

A perfect example happened this morning. I was on a road with 2 lanes in each direction. The speed limit in force is 30mph. Every single car was near-stationary in the overtaking lane, dispite there being no right turns for some half a mile ahead and the inside lane being completely empty. I proceeded on my bike up the normal driving lane at around 25mph, a car pulled right across in front of me into a minor road to the left, I had to emergency stop to prevent myself going through his passenger side door. I stopped and he got out his car, I politely introduced him to a new feature of modern cars called MIRRORS. He apologised and explained he would be more careful in future, and we both went on our way.

So, bikes dangerous? Bikes are just out to get where we are going, just the same as you. Don't get jealous that we can get there in less time than you and feel you have to come back at us by telling us off for being dangerous. Car drivers, now THEY are the danger.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 12:11
Motorbikes overtaking - No FM2R
I can't see that justifying your own bad behaviour (undertaking etc) by saying that cars do worse and do it more often is really a sensible approach. Sme car drivers are truly awful, but that doesn't, or at least shouldn't, give anybody else an excuse or a level of justification for behaving in the same way.

And as for saying that you are dangerous at 50mph because you don't have the ability to concentrate, but then a miracle happens at 69.99mph because you are then able to concentrate at 70mph is just so much dross.

If you can't drive at 50mph, perhaps you might be better walking until you've learned how to do it.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 12:28
Motorbikes overtaking - DazSV
I can't see that justifying your own bad behaviour (undertaking etc)
by saying that cars do worse and do it more often
is really a sensible approach. Sme car drivers are truly awful,
but that doesn't, or at least shouldn't, give anybody else an
excuse or a level of justification for behaving in the same
way.
And as for saying that you are dangerous at 50mph because
you don't have the ability to concentrate, but then a miracle
happens at 69.99mph because you are then able to concentrate at
70mph is just so much dross.
If you can't drive at 50mph, perhaps you might be better
walking until you've learned how to do it.


Driving requires concentration. Lots of it.

Can you concentrate when bored? I cant.

Try looking at a wall, see how long you look at it before you get bored and look at something else. Now try looking at a TV programme you find interesting and see if you can look at it for longer.

When going slow I, and many others, get bored. When you are bored you lose concentration. When driving just slightly faster than I should be it becomes more exciting, keeping my interest, and my concentration. I used the 50mph and 70mph figures as examples, theres no need to patronise me by taking them as set in stone.

I am talking about many car drivers, in my experience, being very hypocritical. The way I drive is dangerous, I know that, the police are more than welcome to stop me and explain this to me. Car drivers who drive worse than me however are not welcome at all to do this.

I noticed that it seems to be completely acceptable for car drivers to complain non-stop about these "stupid" bike riders, but as soon as someone (me) makes a comment regarding the standard of car drivers I get flamed. Try being a little open minded and look at your own kind, as well as the "enemy". We are all as bad as each other, so why argue and spend all our time pointing out each others faults?
Proud owner of Suzuki SV 650S with race kit.
0-60 quicker than a Lamborghini Murcielago
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 12:32
Motorbikes overtaking - No FM2R
I don't disagree with comments about concentration when bored and when not bored. But linking that to the speed you're doing is inappropriate.

Ok, increased risk may make you feel more awake - but firstly that's almost certainly false and secondly any effect is temporary.

Better to take a break when getting bored.

I think you missed by comment about how many car drivers are awful - I wouldn't argue with that point at all. But using that as justification for being below standard yourself is silly.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 12:36
Motorbikes overtaking - DazSV
I don't disagree with comments about concentration when bored and when
not bored. But linking that to the speed you're doing is
inappropriate.
Ok, increased risk may make you feel more awake - but
firstly that's almost certainly false and secondly any effect is temporary.
Better to take a break when getting bored.
I think you missed by comment about how many car drivers
are awful - I wouldn't argue with that point at all.
But using that as justification for being below standard yourself is
silly.


I apologise if I wasn't clear. I don't use other's low standards as an excuse for my own. I don't give any excuse. I am a fast driver and a dangerous driver. I admit that and I admit the only reason for doing so is because I enjoy it.

What I strongly dislike is being told to drive more carefully, by car drivers who break more rules and laws than I do.

...and trust me, I see this happening plenty times, daily!
Proud owner of Suzuki SV 650S with race kit.
0-60 quicker than a Lamborghini Murcielago
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 12:56
Motorbikes overtaking - No FM2R
and a dangerous driver.


I've never heard anybody be proud of that before.

In which ways are you dangerous ?

>>What I strongly dislike is being told to drive more carefully, by car drivers who break more rules and laws than I do.

So what ? They may break laws, but how does that conflict with telling you to be more careful ?

And since you are proud of being a dangerous driver, since you believe nobody has the right to stop you then I don't give a damn for your feelings and do hope that when the roundabout comes around, nobody else has to pay for your lesson.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 12:43
Motorbikes overtaking - daveyjp
My wife noticed a trait amongst bikers yesterday. On a trip across the Yorkshire Wolds numerous bikers were travelling at high speeds and overtaking cars at every opportunity, sometimes where it was safe and others where it wasn't (double lines are there for a reason and apply to all vehicles!). One occasion we were overtaken by a biker who was eager to pass everything, but when we were at the next set of lights which were on red the biker didn't go down the outside to get to the front of the queue and in doing so pass another half a dozen cars, but sat in the line of traffic and then overtook the cars once we were moving - doing well in excess of 40 mph in the process! Why?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 12:48
Motorbikes overtaking - DazSV
My wife noticed a trait amongst bikers yesterday. On a
trip across the Yorkshire Wolds numerous bikers were travelling at high
speeds and overtaking cars at every opportunity, sometimes where it was
safe and others where it wasn't (double lines are there for
a reason and apply to all vehicles!). One occasion we
were overtaken by a biker who was eager to pass everything,
but when we were at the next set of lights which
were on red the biker didn't go down the outside to
get to the front of the queue and in doing so
pass another half a dozen cars, but sat in the line
of traffic and then overtook the cars once we were moving
- doing well in excess of 40 mph in the process!
Why?

That, I cannot answer.

I ride my bike in conditions like that for a thrill, I get a thrill by going fast. I can only go fast when nothing is in front of me or in my way, that is the reason I get past cars, so I can see further in front of myself. I only overtake in situations like that, if it is safe and I can see exactly what is in front of me, overtaking on a double white is not something I would ever do.

Maybe the particular biker you came across was finding a different thrill, in risking his life every two minutes...
Proud owner of Suzuki SV 650S with race kit.
0-60 quicker than a Lamborghini Murcielago
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 13:13
Motorbikes overtaking - Rooster
I once encountered a motorbike rider 'riding for a thrill'. He came off his machine and his pillion went under the rear wheels of the vehicle I was driving. She died.

Still seem like a good idea???

I do try to give bikers due consideration and if I see one in my mirror I will always try to move over to the kerb to let them pass safely. Only a couple of years ago bikers would routinely give a little wave or nod to say 'thanks'. These days, though, most just breeze past as though it's their God-given right to expect motorists to make way for them. Seriously thinking about keeping my line now and making 'em wait for a chance to overtake.

Good manners cost nowt do they?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 13:20
Motorbikes overtaking - DazSV
Good manners are essential for gaining respect. If someone lets me past in slow moving traffic I will nod do them, if it is in faster conditions I am likely to be accellerating away so will stick my left thumb out to ensure they see the gesture.

I've never once had hazards turned on for a second at me or a hand waved in the rear-view all those times I've let cars out in front of me.

I guess I'll have to keep waiting, and hope, one day it'll happen.
Proud owner of Suzuki SV 650S with race kit.
0-60 quicker than a Lamborghini Murcielago
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 14:17
Motorbikes overtaking - oldbanger
What exactly are the rules regarding motorbikes overtaking on motorways when
they cut through the lines of traffic?


Not allowed. Most often a blind eye is turned, though.

Coming home tonight on 2 lane M8, a motorcyclist was cutting
in and out of traffic, trying to go down the middle
of the 2 lanes, weaving in and out.


See "The Highway Code".
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 14:52
Motorbikes overtaking - Garethj
>> What exactly are the rules regarding motorbikes overtaking on motorways
when
>> they cut through the lines of traffic?
Not allowed. Most often a blind eye is turned, though.

Incorrect. It is allowed. I often pass police cars on the stationary or slow moving M1 in the morning, never had so much as an angry stare.

If the situation is appropriate to filter around traffic to make progress and you don't do it, it's a fail note on your bike test.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 15:27
Motorbikes overtaking - oldbanger
>> >> What exactly are the rules regarding motorbikes overtaking on
motorways
>> when
>> >> they cut through the lines of traffic?
>>
>> Not allowed. Most often a blind eye is turned, though.
>>
Incorrect. It is allowed.


Reference, please. The HC will do.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 16:06
Motorbikes overtaking - Garethj
Reference, please. The HC will do.

Any of the motorcycling books by the driving standards agency, don't know if they're on a website but they're in most bookshops and libraries.

There's a weblink here, from a motorcycle instructor: www.survivalskills.clara.net/riding_skills_20.htm
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 16:38
Motorbikes overtaking - oldbanger
>> Reference, please.
>>
>> [ to "the rules regarding motorbikes overtaking on
>> motorways when they cut through the lines of traffic?
>> Coming home tonight on 2 lane M8, a motorcyclist was
>> cutting in and out of traffic, trying to go down the
>> middle of the 2 lanes, weaving in and out]
>>
>>The HC will do.


I've restored some sort of context above, in case the original question gets lost.
Any of the motorcycling books by the driving standards
agency, don't know if they're on a website but they're
in most bookshops and libraries.


If you *can* provide a reference, I shall be very interested to see it.

There's a weblink here, from a motorcycle instructor: www.survivalskills.clara.net/riding_skills_20.htm


This is not an "official" website, and indeed in it the author makes no mention of the advisability of filtering in fast traffic, saying rather that "If traffic starts to move much over over 50% of the speed limit (eg. at around 40mph on a national limit dual carriageway), I usually return to the lane".
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 16:48
Motorbikes overtaking - Garethj
I've restored some sort of context above, in case the original question gets lost.


The weblink isn't "official" but it is by a qualified and recognised motorcylce instructor. Care to comment on your experience with motorcycles and the law is?

The original question didn't state traffic speed, did it? There is no law on the correct speed, 40-50mph is fair, and as I've said I have no worries about passing a police car like this.

The Highway Code doesn't cover lots of things to do with riding motorbikes, that's why there are the DSA books.

As I said, don't take my word for it, ask a traffic policeman, even one of the traffic police on motorbikes!
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 16:51
Motorbikes overtaking - Garethj
>> As I said, don't take my word for it, ask a traffic policeman, even one of the traffic police on motorbikes!


Corrected for oldbanger. Don't ask a traffic policeman about the law for traffic, only accept the word of a high court judge once he's proved who he is, and provided copied of his qualifications.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 17:01
Motorbikes overtaking - oldbanger
>> I've restored some sort of context above, in case the
original question gets lost.
>>
The weblink isn't "official" but it is by a qualified and
recognised motorcylce instructor.


So what? It doesn't state what the law is in context.

Care to comment on your experience with
motorcycles and the law is?


Lengthy experience of motorcycling and avoidance (possibly evasion) of The Law.

The original question didn't state traffic speed, did it?


It did mention motorway, a motorcyclist weaving in and out, overtaking. It's a good bet that the traffic speed was higher than "slow". Perhaps the OP will clarify. I am talking about when people filter at "high" speeds on motorways.

There
is no law on the correct speed, 40-50mph is fair, and
as I've said I have no worries about passing a police
car like this.
The Highway Code doesn't cover lots of things to do with
riding motorbikes, that's why there are the DSA books.
As I said, don't take my word for it, ask a
traffic policeman, even one of the traffic
police on motorbikes!


See other post, they don't always actually *know* the law.

One M/C policeman I encountered didn't even know the law, or inspect his bike, before riding it. When he stopped me, I was happy to mention a little fault on his machine to him, and he rode off, somehow failing to continue to follow up the little matter he'd stopped *me* for. Result! Kept my head down for a while after that one...
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 17:15
Motorbikes overtaking - Garethj
It did mention motorway, a motorcyclist weaving in and out, overtaking. It's a good bet that the traffic speed was higher than "slow".

Or it's a good bet that the motorways are fairly jammed up and everyone's dawdling along at between 5 and 45mph as I see on my daily commute?

As I said, there is no law on the safe speed for filtering, it comes down to the police's opinion on due care & attention etc.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 15:39
Motorbikes overtaking - Thommo
Agreed. I failed a bike test due to failure to filter around stationary traffic and make progress.

I have armoured gloves but the idea of punching a wing mirror seems to me to be a recipe for me losing my arm. Scraping a car door with a boot also seems a recipe for me losing a leg. Don't fancy any of that.

I have had cars close gaps on me deliberately to stop me passing. Jealousy I'm afraid.

Also bikers are taught to remain in the middle of a lane instead or riding in the gutter. Its called commanding your road space on advanced riding courses and I have ever right to be there so suck it up.

Finally Mark stopping being a moderator doesn't seem to have helped his dyspepsia.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 15:46
Motorbikes overtaking - oldbanger
Agreed. I failed a bike test due to failure to
filter around stationary traffic and make progress.


That's a different kettle of parrots.

I have armoured gloves but the idea of punching a wing
mirror seems to me to be a recipe for me losing
my arm. Scraping a car door with a boot also
seems a recipe for me losing a leg. Don't fancy
any of that.


Why should you do either of those things?

I have had cars close gaps on me deliberately to stop
me passing. Jealousy I'm afraid.


That's wrong of the drivers in question. Note drivers of some vehicles do this anyway, regardless of what they're about to be overtaken by.

Also bikers are taught to remain in the middle of a
lane instead or riding in the gutter. Its called commanding
your road space on advanced riding courses


I don't know what it's called, but there are several very good reasons for positioning your motorbike like this. Under many circumstances, I prefer being between the middle of my lane and the crown of the road (single carriageway roads).
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 15:56
Motorbikes overtaking - Thommo
OB,

As to road position we were talking about when stationary.

On the move you should always look for your safe space. In most circumstances this is where your vision is best and on a single carriage road in most circumstances this will be to the right hand side of the lane just to the left of the white line.

However in one instance I was over to the right on a single carriageway in slow moving traffic and an idiot car driver decided to pull up parallel with me on the road. Theres no end to drivers lunacy I am afraid.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 16:23
Motorbikes overtaking - oldbanger
As to road position we were talking about when stationary.


Eh! When stationart, be in the centre of your lane?? Can't see that... if the traffic is stationary, pass it - if you're parked, keep out of the way of traffic! Perhaps I've mossed something...

On the move you should always look for your safe space.
In most circumstances this is where your vision is best
and on a single carriage road in most circumstances this will
be to the right hand side of the lane just to
the left of the white line.


Yes, that's what I thought I said... varies on bends, and due to all sorts of circumstances...

However in one instance I was over to the right on
a single carriageway in slow moving traffic and an idiot car
driver decided to pull up parallel with me on the road.
Theres no end to drivers lunacy I am afraid.


On the inside? Hmm, nice... same as the tendency to proceed 1 yard off your one's rear end (all vehicles)...

OT, I was towed by an RAC man, in a car, on a 2m towbar. Caouldn't see a thing, was slightly "scary". Then I thought, "Oh well - thousands of people drive like this on the motorways as a matter of course every day...." Brings it home how daft thousands of people can be (end of thread drift).
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 16:30
Motorbikes overtaking - Garethj
oldbanger, if the book and weblink don't answer the question satisfactorily, you can ask a traffic policeman for the answer. I've had a few encouraging me to filter between lanes in London.

Hope that helps to correct your "illegal" answer.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2005 16:46
Motorbikes overtaking - oldbanger
oldbanger, if the book and weblink don't answer the
question satisfactorily, you can ask a traffic
policeman for the answer.


"Traffic policemen" are not guaranteed to know the law.

I've had a few encouraging me to filter between lanes
in London.


But that's nothing to do with the OP.

Hope that helps to correct your "illegal" answer.


Correct my answer? So I'll take that as a cop-out, then.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 9 Aug 2005 12:57
Motorbikes overtaking - Vin {P}
Highway code, rule 139:

"If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left"

No definition of queue, so I guess there's an element of judgment in there. Seems to allow filtering, IMHO.

V
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 9 Aug 2005 13:44
Motorbikes overtaking - mountainkat
for anyone wanting to see bikers trying to commit suicide on a frequent basis take a trip over here to North Wales on any weekend during the summer months. Nothing against bikers, have several mates with bikes, just that sometimes some of them don't seem to realise how close to death they are.
Can be a pretty scary experience driving along the A5/A470.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 9 Aug 2005 14:51
Motorbikes overtaking - Garethj
>>for anyone wanting to see bikers trying to commit suicide on a frequent basis take a trip over here to North Wales on any weekend during the summer months.

Same for any car driver on the M25 every morning and evening. Only a fool breaks the 0.002 second rule...

Has this gone around in circles enough, yet, mods?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link