Tyres - RobJP

I've been having a look around for new tyres this evening, as the back tyres on my 325d estate are now down to 4mm.

I usually go to blackcircles as a starting point. Pricing seems very interesting.

As I'm sure a lot of people are aware, 'premium' brands seem to get a bit of a panning at times : Go cheap generic tyres, "You're paying loads extra for them to be featured on F1" is the common comment about Pirelli, for example.

Well, a few tyre prices for my car (prices per tyre) :

Blackcircles 'value' : £69.10

Blackcircles 'quality' : £78.60

Kumho : £111.22

Toyo : £117.80

Uniroyal : £128.69

Falken : £131.58

Pirelli : £133.60 (what the car has had from new)

Hankook : £136.15

Goodyear, Dunlop, Continental, Michelin : £141 to £149

Bridgestone : £196.56

Yokohama : £207.96

So the Pirelli are one of the cheapest 'premium' brands available, and are what the car has been running on since new. Car has covered 25,000 miles, and the rear tyres are on 4mm. Front tyres are about 6mm. (RWD car)

So, buying 'premium' brands like Pirelli doesn't seem to be as expensive as some people reckon. There certainly doesn't seem to be a price penalty associated with them being the tyres used in F1. In fact, they're only fractionally more expensive than 'Falken' brand, which I don't think I've ever seen advertised.

Tyres - Leif
After my recent experience with cheapish tyres, I'd only ever use decent ones. Cheap tyres can be dangerous. And in my case they were dangerous. Ones supplied with the car should be okay, as they will have been tested by the car maker. Tyres can be okay on one car, but not another.
Tyres - Avant

I agree with Leif about the cheap brands - a false economy. Pirelli are only about £10 less in your list than Goodyear etc - thus £130 to £150 is the 'premium price' for tyres in your size, with whoever is quoting for Bridgestone and Yokohama just being stupid.

Kleber Quadraxers have done me very well - good grip and long-lasting. I would imagine that they would come in at about the same price as Kumhos. Someone recently - was it you, Leif? - had a bad experience of loss of grip with Kumhos, so it may be that they don't suit every car.

But with your good mileage out of the Pirellis, Rob, in your position I'd go for them again.

Tyres - Engineer Andy

Its just as much about what suits a particular car than brand (some tyre manufacturers often associate themselves with premium car brand and/or sporty cars and so jack up the price because they know most gullable owners will pay for them), so a good previous experience is often a good place to start from.

I would personally more associate Pirelli's involvement in F1 as a general marketing tool, as Bridgestone was before, and not just in relation to high performance car tyres. F1 is generally associated with cutting-edge technology, and to me such brands get involved so that they 'show' the motoring world that they provide 'quality' products, a bit like Ferrari do for their road going cars.

Going back to the OP's question, I would agree that high price doesn't necessarily equal the best driving experience on the road, as often the most expensive tyres are geared to high performance and not comfort or durability. I suppose it all depends on your driving style, mileage and other requirements. Unless you're going to take your car on regular track days, then a more comfortable, durable and mid-range tyre might suit you.

Check on www.tyrereviews.co.uk or similar review sites for reviews of your car's tyre size, and see if you can find individual reviews of those with the same model of car (with a reasonable mileage behind them) on those tyres. Its not perfect, but it gives you extra information (more than just the 'tests' which rarely give similar results from magazine to magazine [often because they test using different cars, on race tracks, as well as any personal bias from the journalists themselves] - at least with lots of reviews, the review sites can give a better view across a large group of drivers on real roads).

I would, though, avoid the 'cheapie' budget brands (including 'own label') from tyre suppliers/fitters as they have a reputation for being very poor in the wet compared to the 'estiablished' brands.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 26/07/2015 at 11:41

Tyres - Leif
Yes, it was me that had two skids, one where the car spun off the road. They were Kumhos. I didn't mention the brand as it could have been the model of tyre, or a faulty batch. Kumho is not even a budget brand, but mid range, and should have been okay. But I ended up scared when driving on wet roads due to no grip.
Tyres - RobJP

An interesting set of replies. Many thanks to all for your thoughts.

I'd always intended getting Pirelli tyres fitted as a replacement. It might only be a diesel estate car (though with 200+ bhp), and my driving is certainly a lot more sedate than it was ... a few ... years ago, but I've always used quality tyres. After all, they are all that is between you and meeting the landscape, and you've probably only got something like 2 sq foot (or less) of rubber in contact with the tarmac.

A tyre that just about meets standards is going to be a lot worse than one which far exceeds them, especially in poor weather/road conditions.

It's an interesting exercise, looking at the cost per mile in tyres. In my case, the fronts are at 6mm (roughly half-worn) in 25k, and the backs are down to 4mm. While I could, I'm sure, get another 5k miles out of the backs, at that level of wear they're going to grip a lot less in the wet. So time to change. However, that means that in 50k miles I'll (probably) go through 2 sets of back tyres, and 1 set of fronts, all other things being equal.

Six of the Pirelli tyres will cost me £800, so that works out at 1.6 pence per mile. Servicing costs me about the same. Fuel costs me about 1.2 ppm.

The problem with tyre buying is that a lot of people see it as a large, one-off bill (which it is). They don't see the previous 20-40 thousand miles when they haven't spent anything at all on tyres.

Anyway, I'll get in touch with my local independet fitters, and see what price they come up with for a pair of P zero tyres, and get it all sorted this week, one way or another.

Tyres - Hamsafar

You can't compare the brand alone as each brand will have tyres across the performance range - for example a Pirelli Courier will be worse at everything than a Falken Ziex 914.

When you buy a premium tyre you are paying some of the tyre price towards F1 and Permiership football sponsorship and probably some kind of drifting championship in Japan.

Not saying I don't prefer premium, I do, but they are not always the best in tests, and certainly not the best bang per buck, when some of the premium tyres such as Vredestein Sessanta come nearly last amongst the Triangles, LingLongs and Joyroads.

Tyres - Leif
I can understand a mid range brand tyre matching or exceeding a premium tyre, but I find it hard to believe a premium tyre could do less well than a DiYung or a DitchFinder. Do you have a link to tests?
Tyres - gordonbennet

Hopefully the link works, halfway down the page are links to three independent tests featuring Vred's Sessanta, in all three tests it's trailing other makes but each and every one of those makes i regard as premium, can't see any ditchmakers ahead.

Don't think it was one of Vred's best received tyres, but then Vred Wintrac Extremes didn't score well on tests for cold wet grip either, yet the set we had on the Hilux even SWMBO couldn't unstick...OE Pirelli's the vehicle came on i removed and sold at around 1000 miles due to it being far too skittish on them in the wet, a fact that would probably be confirmed by the local main dealer whose demo we were going to buy before one of their sales chaps lost it on a wet roundabout and wrote it off.

www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vredestein/Ultrac-Sessa...m

As the poster above states (or it might have been another thread), a tyre can be superb on one car yet hopeless on another, Pirelli P6000 for example i've read dreadful posts about yet they were superb in grip comfort and noise on the very rapid Benz estate we had a few years back.

Edited by gordonbennet on 26/07/2015 at 19:07

Tyres - Trilogy

Suggest you try tyreleader.co.uk Apologies if this has already been suggested. I have used them.

Tyres - MrDanno

I used event tyres last time, they were great on price and did a good job of fiting too. The time before I got a good price from kwik fit online.

Tyres - RobJP

Yes, Event will be another one I'll be checking for a price. Used them last year for 4 new A/T tyres for the Shogun Sport. Very competitive on price, and they came out to my workplace to do the job.

In fact, I put a thread up on them, I was so impressed !

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=106628

Tyres - Leif

Yes, the tyres I had were rated highly by two owners, but one said they were awful, which was also my experience. That person had a similar car to me i.e. city car. Clearly a larger car will take larger tyres, which changes the area in contact with the road, and the weight, and hence the results.