HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - Fishermans Bend

www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/norfolk_police_catch_25...0

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - gordonbennet

Groan, i hear the faint sound of halos swiftly being polished, they'll be along in a moment to wish the driving instructor banned neutered exiled and in due course not allowed to pass on from purgatory.

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - bolt

Groan, i hear the faint sound of halos swiftly being polished, they'll be along in a moment to wish the driving instructor banned neutered exiled and in due course not allowed to pass on from purgatory.

A lorry driver was caught eating a bowl of breakfast cereal I think it was on the M275 near Portsmouth,so I think the police are about in places catching the idiots.

police also using Lorries to see what other drivers are doing...not the first time they have done that.

they didnt mention what cereal he was eating though ;)

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - khcomp

I recall several years ago a foreign lorry driver on the A55 in North Wales being filmed by a police helicopter driving whilst eating a saucepan full of pasta....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XumLZhDznNA

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - Snakey

Ok so pretty much everyone will agree that using you phone whilst driving is stupid and dangerous.

But the term driving is used to cover sitting in a static queue, parked up with the engine still running, in a massive tailback crawling at 1mph. Are they also as dangerous? Those caught using on the move deserve it but theres got to be some sense applied as well.

I know that story don't explain the circumstances but I do wonder, plod do like to make it sound like we're all careering around at 70 whilst texting!

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - NARU
I know that story don't explain the circumstances but I do wonder, plod do like to make it sound like we're all careering around at 70 whilst texting!

Most of the dangerous things I've seen have been at speed. Such as the LGV weaving between lane 1 and the hard shoulder at 56mph for several miles - when I caught up with him, he was deeply immersed in a novel.

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - oldroverboy.

The HGV instructor in Norfolk was not driving, so was he actually doing anything illegal?

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - FP

"...was he actually doing anything illegal?"

Yes. The law is quite clear. A superviser is deemed to be in control of the vehicle.

Edited by FP on 20/01/2017 at 16:25

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - FP

"But the term driving is used to cover sitting in a static queue, parked up with the engine still running, in a massive tailback crawling at 1mph."

Not this again! Of course the law is a "blunt instrument" sometimes, but consider the alternatives. Say the use of mobiles is allowed if the car's speed is less than 5 mph. How on earth is this going to be established? Does a speed camera have to be used before any charge can be brought?

It's a slippery slope. If 5 mph is OK, what about 10? 20?

At the moment, if your engine is running and you're not parked you can't use the phone. It's clear and unambiguous. I'm satisfied for the law as it stands to be applied. If only it were actually applied much more often than it is!

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - thirts

Ok so pretty much everyone will agree that using you phone whilst driving is stupid and dangerous.

But the term driving is used to cover sitting in a static queue, parked up with the engine still running, in a massive tailback crawling at 1mph. Are they also as dangerous? Those caught using on the move deserve it but theres got to be some sense applied as well.

I know that story don't explain the circumstances but I do wonder, plod do like to make it sound like we're all careering around at 70 whilst texting!

And what I see everyday on my bike is motorist texting whilst in stationary traffic and then failing to move off with the traffic when it's starts moving as they are so busy concentrating on finishing there texts. They then realise the traffic has moved off, and continue to finish off there text whilst driving somewhat recklessly to try and catch up.

I just don't get it

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - focussed

Yes I know how you feel about this GB - it's not quite the heinous crime it's made out to be is it?

An HGV "learner" has to have a full driving licence before obtaining an HGV provisional and entering into HGV training.

The "supervising" instructor is just that - he supervises and coaches - he doesn't "instruct" in the manner of a car instructor, because the driver can already drive a vehicle.

He doesn't have a dual brake and clutch and as far as I know would not be able to reach across the cab to take control of the steering as a car instructor can do if necessary.

Interestingly- an HGV "instructor" isn't a qualified instructor at all - he just has to have an HGV licence - he doesn't have to be registered or qualified as an instructor at all.

Compare with a car instructor -

Three exams'/tests to pass within 2 years - if you can't do it within 2 years go back and start again.

Part 1 - a 100 question theory test - pass mark a minimum 85% on all sections-including a lot of obscure instructional theoretical procedure questions.

Part 2 - a practical driving test carried out by a supervising examiner (that's a specially trained driving examiner who looks at everything you do with a magnifying glass) of minimum 1 hour (twice the 30 minutes of the standard driving test) -only four minor faults allowed for a pass.

(15 minors acceptable for an ordinary test pass)

All the manoevres - Turn in the road - Reverse to the left around a corner - Reverse to the right around a corner - parallel park behind a vehicle - Controlled stop (used to be called the emergency stop) and a reverse park into a parking bay.

All usually done on busy roads with a lot of pedestrians about.

Part - 3 - Practical test of ability to instruct..

A specially trained driving examiner role-plays a pupil - the most difficult part of the whole training schedule - you have to learn about 13 different scenarios they can select and respond to teach/coach appropriately.

The three tests cost £303 total

Then you have compulsory periodic check tests where an examiner watches you teach a real pupil for an hour and marks you accordingly.

And the 4 year licence to instruct costs £300 in additon to the test fees.

All this to teach learners to drive a car weighing about 1.5 tonnes

But Hey, to teach someone to drive a 42 tonner you don't have to do any of this stuff!

Sorry - bit of a sore point with car instructors.

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - gordonbennet

I have much bigger problem with the whole lorry training industry to be honest than one of them using a mobile phone whilst sat in the passenger seat, but nicking him kept the 'nicks' up as instructed for the day, it dimisnishes the value of the police too such pettiness.

The problem i have is that lorry instructors are still teaching roadcraft, as it would apply to car driving, mainly the insistence on brakes to slow gears to go, this is not how a lorry should be driven professionally, it never has been and it never will be.

You do not in a lorry approach a junction, or repeated junctions in a high gear and then select the appropraiiatte gear to continue when ready you use the engine's auxilliary braking systems via a driver controlling the gearbox, manual or auto, to maximise that extra retardation, in practice for the professional lorry driver the auxialliary engine brake becomes the primary brake, and the service brakes get used to finally stop the vehicle, that way they are always cool for maximum effort (and minimal wear) when needed seriously.

My problem with the industry is that they know they are wrong in this, but do not combine to make some waves about this and make those who make the rules sit up.

I have had discussions about this on lorry forums with trainers and no one will debate the issue seriously, any replaies are the standard guff from roadcraft, which for all the good sense in it is not a driving manual for lorries.

They do concede that different methods should be applied to hill work, but unless the driver familiarises themselves with proper lorry driving, with the driver in control, how are they to suddenly skill themselves up descending a two mile 1:10 hill fully freighted unless they drive like this normally so it becomes second nature.

I offer the Bath tragedy from last year with the out of control lorry down that hill turning over and killing several poor souls, that young driver (19 in a 32 tonner) never stood a chance of safe descent of steep hills loaded under the present training regime, even if the brakes had been up to standard they can still fade out, and i would go one step further with this, there was one extra body missing from the dock in that court, the training industry and it was notable that little if anything was mentioned about driving methods in the trial, one could be forgiven for wondering why.

Don't get me started either on the training of new drivers on automatics, taking their tests in automatics, and then being issued a manual HGV licence too, it's beyond belief, any fool can select D and press the throttle, it's simply wrong on so any levels.

Edited by gordonbennet on 20/01/2017 at 20:20

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - focussed

But as you say GB the trainers are only teaching what the examiners want to see demonstrated - because they have a box to tick on the test form.

And it's no use instructors/trainers trying to get the DVSA to alter their driving standards, according to them they are the only people who know how to drive properly - they have a very high opinion of themselves.

Exactly as what should be taught in car driving - but most car examiners would accept changing down to slow down, as long as it done properly - and as long as there is no closely following vehicle - if there is they expect to see brakes used to illuminate brake lights ie signalling to the following vehicle etc.

It is easier to teach "brakes to slow - gears to go" or "brake to the speed you need then select the appropriate gear" to a car learner, than teaching them to flog the gearbox to slow down, less for them to concentrate on, keeps their both hands on the wheel longer etc.

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - gordonbennet
It is easier to teach "brakes to slow - gears to go" or "brake to the speed you need then select the appropriate gear" to a car learner, than teaching them to flog the gearbox to slow down, less for them to concentrate on, keeps their both hands on the wheel longer etc.

Absolutely, and it makes perfect sense in a car driving scenario, epecially as you are usually dealing with completely inexperienced drivers.

However in their efforts to dumb the HGV/PSV industry down they now teach lorries to be driven as cars, this is totally wrong.

The lorry training industry should take it's responsibilities more seriously, their job is not just to get a high test pass rate to boost their individual businesses, it should be part of their job, as it once was, to train new drivers to control the vehicle at all times for all conditions, not simply to attend the steering wheel whilst the lorry does all the work..yes it all works fine most of the time and brakes are far better than they have ever been..until they go wrong that is then they aint and our newly trained drivers are up a creek without a paddle and it's high time someone upstairs addressed this issue.

You would probably be amazed how little actual driving training time is involved now for a learner HGV driver to pass the test.

When i took my class 1 way back in the dark ages it was a nine day course, with test on the tenth day, we spent near enough a whole day on the maneuvering yard, the chap who aught me would not accapet just teaching the standard test reverse, you had to know how to drive and control a vehicle in all situations before he was satisfied and i am eternally grateful to the man for putting me through his instruction...the examiner was a pussy cat in comparison..:-)

Edited by gordonbennet on 21/01/2017 at 21:13

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - Fishermans Bend

That 25 was a drop in the ocean. www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/police-catch-8...k

HGV instructor among 25 in hour caught using mob. - nick62

Pity the police are not so hot on coming out to your house when an attempted (or actual) burglary has taken place.

I have colour CCTV, but the seargant I managed to speak with on the 'phone was not interested because "unless the whole of thier face is visible, there is nothing they can do............"

As my old mentor (when I was an apprentice in the 70's) used to say:

"Can't means don't want"

...............and the older I get the more I see what he meant.

GB, was making the HGV test easier anything to do with killing-off freight on the railways in the late 70's?

 

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