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I use roads like the A14 and A12 often as well. In the main, i think HGV drivers do a very good job but some of their antics on the dual carraigeway do baffle me.
- Following each other with about 3 feet between them. What are they doing? Trying to save 24p on diesel?
- Overtaking another lorry which takes 3 hours because they're all doing the same speed
- Overtaking a lorry which has slowed down to take an exit, saving them about 0.0000002 seconds of their journey and making all other traffic slow down suddenly for no good reason.
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Following each other with about 3 feet between them. What are they doing? Trying to save 24p on diesel?
at about 7mpg, the fuel bill matters-so they do draft each other.
- Overtaking another lorry which takes 3 hours because they're all doing the same speed
They tend to be governed at the same speed, but as tyres wear down, the governor will peg the speed at lower and lower levels. The problem is the mimsers' speed limiter-which should be scrapped by law. In the US, you regularly see class 8 trrucks cruising at the same speed as cars-and these alleviates a lot of problems.
- Overtaking a lorry which has slowed down to take an exit, saving them about 0.0000002 seconds of their journey and making all other traffic slow down suddenly for no good reason.
Preservation of momentum-point one again.
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Sorry unthrottled but thats not a good enough excuse. Driving dangerously because diesel is expensive is not acceptable. Driving like an idiot to 'maintain momentum' is not acceptable either.
When i see the lorries driving 2 feet behind each other thats the sort of thing the Police should be dealing with. I dont remember the 'keep your distance' ads having a caveat of 'but if diesels expensive then drive however you like.'
Why should their 'preservation of momentum' cause the following 3 miles of traffic to have to break sharply? Just slow down and wait a second for goodness sake.
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If they lose momentum at 50+mph, you'll be waiting an awful lot longer than if they just keep going. You don't accelerate very quickly when you've only got 10hp/tonne...
They can drive close to each other because they are all doing a very similar speed and traffic is very predictable oin a lane of lorries. They can also see further ahead.
Slow races are annoying on 2 lane motorways, but they are the fault of the limp wristers' insistence on speed limiters not the lorry drivers.
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If they lose momentum at 50+mph, you'll be waiting an awful lot longer than if they just keep going.
Wrong. If they all stay in the inside lane then i can just go round them. If they insist on pulling out for no good reason they'll be in the outside lane forever, the lorry driver in the inside lane doesnt have enough brain power to slow down a bit to let the overtaking one get out of the way any faster so they just end up side by side for miles.
Slow races are annoying on 2 lane motorways, but they are the fault of the limp wristers' insistence on speed limiters not the lorry drivers.
Wrong. The drivers know they've got these limiters so they should act accordingly and keep in lane one and not do overtakes for no reason, instead of a lorry doing 56 taking a year to overtake one doing 55. It doesnt get them anywhere any faster, all it does is force everybody else to slow down suddenly.
I'll give you an example, a few days ago i was driving along in lane one, four lorries in front of me all 3 yards behind each other (which is horrifically dangerous and they should all have their licences revoked) so i pull out to overtake them. The second lorry in from the front decides to leave at the next exit, but im not aware of this because i cannot see his indicators because of the two trucks glued to its numberplate, so im alongside the 4th when the 2nd leaves and the fourth one indicates to pull out and does so, mere inches from the back of my car. Rather than just slow down a little he pulls out abruptly (about 1 second between indicating and pulling out) and if i was a doddery Kia driver he'd have taken me out.
All to save himself 0.000002 seconds. Ridiculous. Police should be pulling this lot over and ticketing the lot of them. Of course if he was keeping a good safe gap (about 4 seconds i'd guess for a lorry on a dry road at least?) he wouldnt have had to do that. He probably didnt know the 2nd lorry was taking the exit either.
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I'm sure unthrottled would be fining them £5,000 each!
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I'm sure unthrottled would be fining them £5,000 each!
??
I'm a big truck fan. It's mimsers that have overstretched themselves on shiny new cars but can't afford diesel and drive at 17 mph that I would fine £5000.
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A difference of 2mph adds up over 8 hours driving. It just takes them ages to pull off the manoeuvre because of the length of two vehicles. Just bide your time. The road in front of the truck is empty; once it pulls back in again, you can blast down the road at 90+ if you want. You haven't lost any time!
A lightly loaded lorry can stop quickly-very quickly. The drivers are in charge of very expensive vehicles and you don't get too many chances before you get the sack-and no reference. If they are tailgating you can be confident that they can stop in time.
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I'm a big truck fan. It's mimsers that have overstretched themselves on shiny new cars but can't afford diesel and drive at 17 mph that I would fine £5000.
Yet lorry drivers who cant afford diesel and use it as an excuse to drive dangerously are supposedly fine?
A difference of 2mph adds up over 8 hours driving.
Then drive longer.
It just takes them ages to pull off the manoeuvre because of the length of two vehicles. Just bide your time. The road in front of the truck is empty; once it pulls back in again, you can blast down the road at 90+ if you want. You haven't lost any time!
They havent gained any time either. They cause hazards for no reason, drive dangerously and put others at risk and hide behind a wall of 'diesels too expensive.' The fact is if diesel is expensive and they've got limiters then a sensible person would think 'i'll drive at 50 then, giving me extra power to use if i need it and save fuel' but a lorry driver (not famed for IQ scores) thinks 'i'll drive at 56mph 3 inches behind another truck!!!'
The drivers are in charge of very expensive vehicles and you don't get too many chances before you get the sack-and no reference.
Chances to do what? If haulage firms are encouraging their drivers to drive illegally and dangerously then i'd rather have them off the road and on jobseekers. Any such sacking would have grounds for unfair dismissal anyway. There was a case recently where a woman took her employer to court because the timetable she was given was impossible to keep to without breaking speed limits and she ended up with 9 points, and won the case, quite rightly. Again, 'i'll get the sack' isnt a valid excuse for driving badly either. You keep inventing excuses for them which are not valid.
If they are tailgating you can be confident that they can stop in time.
I cant. Every major motorway smash involves a HGV in some form. Probably because they drive too close to things and cant stop. The rest of them are reading a newspaper, on their phone or watching a film as they drive along. Quite frightening to be honest.
It takes quite alot to annoy me on the roads, i can put up with bad drivers, pensioners at 10mph, sales rep in grey diesel Audi. But the one thing i cannot stand is drivers following each other stupidly closely on the motorway. Cars which drive 3 feet behind the lorries are just as bad.
Edited by jamie745 on 11/02/2012 at 13:48
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Then drive longer.
They can't. They are on a tacograph.
It's not the drivers' fault most of the time.
When I was in the states, you'd often find a truck that needed to be somewhere quickly, and there's nothing like a 18 wheeler rolling on the compression brake to wake up the hockey mom is an SUV and get her to move into the inside lane. There were no slow races. Over here trucks are like castrated concubines, hobbled to 56 mph, high viz jackets, tacographs, reversing sirens etc. and it causes havoc.
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They can't. They are on a tacograph.
Employ more drivers. Again, why should their restricted working hours become everybody elses problem? When one of them smashes into 7 cars and kills people do you think 'im on a tacograph!!!' is a valid reason or excuse for driving like a total knob?
Over here trucks are like castrated concubines, hobbled to 56 mph, high viz jackets, tacographs, reversing sirens etc. and it causes havoc.
None of that is an excuse for poor driving. The drivers know this is what they're working with so should act accordingly. A bad workman blames his tools and all that. The regulations dont cause havoc, the squishy bit behind the wheel is what drives the thing.
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Unthrottled, you were going to fine people £5,000, for parking facing oncoming traffic. So, I thought you'd have the same fine, for lorry drivers! It's a nice round figure everyone can remember! I think best to have it at that figure, for ALL highway offences. That way everyone knows where they stand. :)
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If you're in to your 14th hour at work and have been driving for 9 & a half hours then occasionally you may make an error of judgement. Some truck drivers may be newly passed and not used to the length of the vehicle.
There's inconsiderate lorry drivers and inconsiderate car drivers, always has been always will be.
I've been doing the a14 a bit in the last week and I can see where some of you are coming from but not much different argument to the car drivers who want to hammer it and come up behind a mimsing car driver in lane 2 dawdling with an overtake.
A lot of the overtakes I have made on the a14 this week have been to pass car drivers pootling along at 54mph, it's hard enough trying to pass/deal with other trucks without having to overtake cars in lane 1.
One of the main reasons I will overtake a truck if there's isn't that much difference in the speed is if a truck is gaining on me, he will have to overtake both of us if I stay put hence longer hold up to lane 2. If there's no trucks behind me usually I will tag behind if there isn't that much difference in speed. I try to stay in lane 1 if it's rush hour.
I drive a car as well and i'm sure I wouldn't be too pleased with some of the antics on the a14 if I had to do that commute everyday, the road needs to be upgraded to a motorway if you ask me, it's the main freight route for imports from Europe.
The one thing that cracks me up is if there's a reasonable gap and you indicate to come out & then some car drivers speed up, you pull out and then they get the hump that you've still pulled out after they've floored it to try & change your mind.
I think Jamie should become a truck driver and show us all how it's done!
Edited by PatrickO on 11/02/2012 at 16:19
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One of the main reasons I will overtake a truck if there's isn't that much difference in the speed is if a truck is gaining on me, he will have to overtake both of us if I stay put hence longer hold up to lane 2.
How can a truck gain on you if you're both limited to the same speed? Surely even if he gets in front of you he's not going to get far from you. Overtaking a vehicle limited to the same speed as you just seems so pointless.
A lot of the overtakes I have made on the a14 this week have been to pass car drivers pootling along at 54mph, it's hard enough trying to pass/deal with other trucks without having to overtake cars in lane 1.
Fair point. I think on such roads in a car you need to at least do 60mph. At 60 you can keep in front of the trucks and vans. I dont often exceed 70 on roads like that because theres no point, you wont get anywhere any faster.
I drive a car as well and i'm sure I wouldn't be too pleased with some of the antics on the a14 if I had to do that commute everyday, the road needs to be upgraded to a motorway if you ask me, it's the main freight route for imports from Europe.
The road was meant to be upgraded and renamed the M14 about 20 years ago but it never happened. Successive Governments have banged on about moving freight traffic onto rail instead but the vast majority still goes by road. The A14 and A12 are not fit for purpose in the 21st century, we all agree on that.
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How can a truck gain on you if you're both limited to the same speed? Surely even if he gets in front of you he's not going to get far from you. Overtaking a vehicle limited to the same speed as you just seems so pointless.
Because the speed limiter is based on gearing, not GPS. Truck tyres have thick treads. As the tyres wear down, the indicated speed stays at 56 while the actual speed falls.
If the road is blocked by a 'slow race' then you are guarenteed to have an empty road to yourself of as soon as the manoeuvre is completed-so you are not being held up-and the overtaking truck gets his extra 2mph. Think of being stuck behind the overtaking truck as deferred high speed driving and it won't bother you!
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If the road is blocked by a 'slow race' then you are guarenteed to have an empty road to yourself of as soon as the manoeuvre is completed-so you are not being held up-and the overtaking truck gets his extra 2mph.
2mph isnt worth all that hassle. Especially when they insist on pulling out a second after indicating with gay abandon to ploughing into cars beside them. The fact is if a car did that you'd want their licences taken away.
Think of being stuck behind the overtaking truck as deferred high speed driving and it won't bother you!
I'm not looking to drive at 'high speed' im merely attempting to overtake slow moving traffic at 70mph, but of course the entire country should be forced to wait in the outside lane for 7 days while Mr Lorry gets his extra 2mph. If a car did 56mph in the outside lane purely because the one in front was doing 55mph you'd go ape unthrottled.
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If a car did 56mph in the outside lane purely because the one in front was doing 55mph you'd go ape unthrottled.
I would-because the car has a viable alternative. The truck doesn't. I make allowances because, without them, the country would grind to a halt.
The same cannot be said for reps in Audis sitting 6" off my rear bumper-when there is a line of traffic in front of me-doh!
If a powerpoint presentation on Quarterly Sales Figures or Project Zeus were not delivered, no one would notice or care.
Edited by unthrottled on 11/02/2012 at 17:50
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I would-because the car has a viable alternative. The truck doesn't. I make allowances because, without them, the country would grind to a halt.
So that gives them licence to drive like a knob?
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Unthrottled, you were going to fine people £5,000, for parking facing oncoming traffic.
I would have thought that the suggestion of an additional penalty of six months' penal servitude would be sufficient to indicate sarcasm.
Mind you the Saab fanboys are a very strait laced lot ;-)
Edited by unthrottled on 11/02/2012 at 17:35
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Unthrottled, you were going to fine people £5,000, for parking facing oncoming traffic.
I would have thought that the suggestion of an additional penalty of six months' penal servitude would be sufficient to indicate sarcasm.
How does it feel to now have one leg longer than the other? :)
Very, that's why we have fun here. Although some have needed to phone the Saabaritans in the last couple of years. :)
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I did wonder why I kept going round in circles...
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A number of fair points on both sides of the discussion, but no one has pointed out that once off the dual carriageway an LGV is obliged to stop at red traffic lights, Pelican and Zebra crossings, any one of which will add more time to the journey (and more need to regain momentum) than following a truck going 0.5 mph slower for several miles.
For this reason alone I can not accept the excuses made for three mile overtakes by trucks which cause congestion.
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The speed differential looks like 0.5 MPH to an observer because of the large length of the vehicles. It is actually more like 2-3 MPH. Significant at speeds of around 55MPH.
As I've said, there is an empty road ahead of the blockage which you are at liberty to avail yourself of as soon as the blockage clears-so there's very little net time lost.
The major cause of congestion are drivers that are too fast to use the inside lanes even when they aren't overtaking.
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The speed differential looks like 0.5 MPH to an observer because of the large length of the vehicles. It is actually more like 2-3 MPH. Significant at speeds of around 55MPH.
Its not significant at all, especially when you consider the wall of congestion they'll hit at the next City.
As I've said, there is an empty road ahead of the blockage which you are at liberty to avail yourself of as soon as the blockage clears-so there's very little net time lost.
For the fourth time, the same applies to the lorries. The one who spends an entire day overtaking another gets nowhere faster. The fact is its a needless blockage which benefits nobody.
galileo has a valid point, one minor accident or piece of congestion in town at the end of the HGV's journey cancels out any 3 second saving they gained by putting other motorists lives at risk out on the dual carraigeway. Towns and cities are full of congestion causing schemes dressed up as 'traffic calming' and HGV's have to put up with it like the rest of us. In fact, anybody who uses the A12/14 will know that when its windy, the Port of Felixstowe shuts anyway and the lorries go into 'Operation Stack' and sit on the road, sometimes for 24 hours at a time. The 'saving time' excuse just doesnt wash when you consider everything else.
Its completely pointless.
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How about starting an epetition to make it illegal for HGV's to overtake on dual carriageways? They cause more congestion and potential accidents with their stupid 10 minute overtaking manoeuvres than anything else.
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There is a section of dual carriageway which has (as an experiment?) signs prohibiting HGV overtaking at certain times of day - can't remember the exact location, I used it on a trip to Silverstone a year or so ago.
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On the A34 Northbound on the long hill at East Ilsley, south of Didcot.
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Then drive longer.
They can't. They are on a tacograph.
They also record speeds at which they are going. Plus that is no excuse not to drive longer, I've seen how fast you can change the disk, and you can drive without one, I was given a lift by a lorry driver and he took the disc out because he'd been over the time limit.
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