Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - Carole4X4
I posted a couple of weeks ago with regards to co2 figures and the strive for manufacturers to reduce them but along the same lines I have now encountered a new conundrum.

I recently took delivery of a Megane 1.5 dci (brand new order) but had the problems with torque and economy I mentioned in my previous post re emissions ( to recap :- fuel economy of 28 max urban, 45 max extra urban,,,,, no torque whatsoever under 2k rpm) I now find that the megane we have been supplied is not the same car/engine as I test drove.
The dealer test car had the previous 1.5dci engine which although producing higher emissions also had a much better torque curve and produced the torque from lower down the rev range, whereas the car they supplied us with has renaults new eco2 engine which has totally different characteristics and torque etc.

As far as I'm concerned the car is not as ordered therefore subject to SOGA and I should be able to reject it however the supplying dealership won't hear of it, Renault uk are just as useless and also Motability don't want to know ( yes it is leased through motability ). The car is no good to us the way it is due to a medical condition of my father plus the fact I can't afford to run a diesel car that returns less mpg than most petrol models of comparable size I.e. Focus, auris etc.


My question to the legally knowledgeable on here is this, what can I do about a car that is not as ordered. It is not my fault if the manufacturer changes the engine design etc and they should have informed me that a change was imminent or at least had the most up to date model as a demonstrator. I feel that the dealer deliberately did not inform me as they wanted the supply of the vehicle as the order was placed about 2 days before the end of the month, I.e. Sales targets etc.

Carole.
Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - Armitage Shanks {p}

Get Motability involved; they "Own" the car, in a way. Also see this similar discussion

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=93410

Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - oldtoffee

As above, put your issue to Motability in writing and say that you do not wish to continue to make the payments and give them 14 days ro respond. Copy to the dealer principal at the supplying garage. You might wish to be flexible in maybe accepting a deal on the previous verion if they can get you one in a changeover or take a partial refund that you could view as covering the mpg difference. If the different torque characteristics are a genuine showstopper then you'll need to move on from here and take professional legal advice.

Re the mpg you're getting, if you check out the real world fuel register on this site you'll see there are big discrepancies reported between manufacturers claimed economy and what you actually achieve in real world driving, including the petrol versions of the cars you believe to be as economical. Your mpg seems a bit disappointing around town but that could be attributable to the traffic conditions, time spent still, amount of stop start which hammers mpg and makes it difficult to generalise. 45mpg on a run is IMO a bit low but that again depends on your average speed and whether you travel at say 65mph tops or 80mph. I can improve my mpg by around 25%+ by sticking to an indicated 65 mph top speed instead of another 10-15mph and being very light (and patient) on acceleration. The mpg of any diesel car will improve as the engine beds in and loosens up a bit.

Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - injection doc

Carole4x4

driving a diesel will be a very different experince to a petrol, I must also add that most diesels new are very tight and very thirsty. My Own diesel a L/R when new was returning 23ish and has improved to 36 ish after 10,000 miles and my Wifes 1.6TDCi Fiesta would not better 40 tops untill about 9000 miles and now its 60+ and very rarley drops below 54 with constant town driving.

As for the tourque it may feel sluggish after a petrol but try a different approach to driving it. Reving it will achieve nothing other than drinking fuel. Our fiesta only needs driving between 1200-2250 rpm and thats plenty and we get the best economey. If you driving it like a petrol and rev it to 3000+ between gear changes the MPG will plummet.

You will also need to deal with mobility and have you driven another Megane the same spec to make sure yours isnt faulty ? dont take the dealers words that its fine.

Recently had a customer who had a new Fiesta 1.6tdci that was really flat, went to the dealer over 10 times and they said nothing wrong. He went back to the dealer and hired a 1.6TDCi and went like a rocket. He went back to the salesmanager and asked him to drive both cars ! The manager then agreed something was wring ! Ford then became involved and there was a problem that required an engineer from germany to come over and problem was fixed So never take what the dealer says as gospel !

Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - Bobbin Threadbare

Don't you have a to work a new diesel engine in? I remember my F-i-L saying he didn't actually like his fresh off the factory line A6 for several months, until he had figured out its quirks and got it 'worn in' as such.

Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - Carole4X4
I know about differences between petrol and diesel engines and how they perform etc as not only was I a motoring journalist for almost 13 years ( been out of the game for about 9 years now tho) I have also owned diesel cars since 1997.

My point is that I handed a 1.5dci grand scenic back in order to have the megane (suited my dads mobility needs better) and the GScenic had the same engine as the megane originally had therefore I had knowledge of how I expected the engine to perform etc. However between the test drive at the dealership, placing the order and delivery of the megane Renault have produced this new eco2 engine in order to reduce co2 emissions which are of no concern to me ( Jamie will be wanting to marry me again lol ) they have totally changed the driving characteristics of the engine thus meaning it is unsuitable for my dads mobility/health needs, sorry I cant elaborate the reasons why as they are personal but they are a concern.

We are now left with a car that my dad is unable to travel in and because I can only use the mobility car for my dads use ( their rules) it will never get the mileage to 'loosen' the engine as he can't travel in it.

As I say motability say they can't do anything as there isn't a mechanical fault and the dealer and Renault uk won't do anything so we are basically paying for an ornament to stand at the door.



Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - oldtoffee

It's going to be a tad difficult arguing that "they have totally changed the driving characteristics of the engine" in such a major way that the car is now totally unsuitable for your dad's needs. Because they haven't really. It is still a torquey diesel engine with slightly different torque characteristics over the the previous generation engine, lower CO2, better mpg, lower VED. It might need changing gear at slightly not totally different revs/speeds but that's not a "total change" so I struggle to see how it renders the car completely unusable when the previous generation engine as so right for you and your dad. Although you don't want to elaborate here and no reason why you should, I suspect if you want any kind of result, you'll have to elaborate at some length with Renault and Motability as to why the car is so ornamental.

Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - injection doc

Curious by the driving charecteristics having " changed so dramatically" I went & test drove a low mileage 1.5DCi & a 1.5dci eco Dynamic to see for myself if there was this huge difference that would make one undriveable !

Well figures for performance are virtually the same & the Tourque output quoted was 240nm @1750 rpm for both engines .

Across the range of 1.5dci engines there are 80-110BHP versions but with the exception of the 90 & 100BHP models the tourque remains the same at 240NM

I found very little difference between the two except the eco model was brandnew & tight & could appreciate once it had loosened up would performe as one would expect.

That leads me back to my original question, is "Carloes4x4" Renault running correctley ! are the dealer just blaming it on the "new eco engine" and hiding behind a fault that needs exploring just as in the scenario of the Fiesta that I quoted !

or is it a DPF issue, & that the vehicle cant be driven enough to regenerate when required ! may be some folk dont like the idea of having to give it a blast down a dual carrigeway.

I think the reason as to why it cant be driven needs elaborating on as oldtoffee quite rightly says.

Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - Carole4X4
The difference in characteristics arise from the fact that at under 1800 rpm approx the engine of the new eco2 megane starts to labour and to keep the revs above that limit you need to be in second gear until you hit approx 28/29 mph meaning that mpg is severely affected. Also because of said torque and rev range you cannot hit legal uk speeds in 6th gear as 1800 rpm in 6th produces a road speed of 73mph (gps measured not speedo indicated).

I can drive any style I choose, either boy/girl racer madness, perfect saloon track racer ( ex tin top racing driver myself in Saab 9000's during the early 90's) or I can drive ultra economical, I know manufacturers quoted mpg's are usually beyond most people's normal driving capabilities however I can achieve better than quoted on 99% of occasions, in a recent Nissan Note courtesy car, 1.4 petrol, I was achieving 51mph quite easily. The previous GScenic would easily achieve 70+ mpg on a run at 58mph and run in 6th gear quite happily all day at that, it would even run all day at 40mph in 6th as long as you used 6th as a sort of overdrive, this sodding megane won't even take 4th at 40 mph without labouring.,


I am going to go to a different dealership in my LR Discovery and ask to test drive a megane with the eco2 engine and see if there is a difference as doc says.

Renault Megane - Car not as ordered - oldtoffee

Sounds like you enjoy the challenge of maxxing the potential fuel economy of your cars (and driving the proverbials off them too!) Leaving aside stress on clutch and dual mass flywheels l'm not sure a highly geared diesel is going to respond with best mpg to keeping the revs ultra low as you descibe. Ford with their Focus Econetic deliberately chose a 5 speed manual box as in real world driving it gave better mpg as revs were that bit higher across the range.

Be interested to hear how you get on with the comparison. Just out of interest, what engine do you have in your Discovery and what mpg do you get?