Biodiesel - bhoy wonder
Just been into Jet garage and noticed that the diesel has transfers on the pumps saying (contains up to 7% biodiesal). Now I am normally an observant person and would have noticed this before and the fact that the transfers look new compared to the diesel transfers that are old and worn.

Is this something new Jet garages are doing or is this what they have always done.
Do any other suppliers do this and could it cause damage to any of the diesel engines in cars at present.

Edited by rtj70 on 09/02/2010 at 09:27

Biodiesal - Old Navy
I believe that all UK diesel has about 5% biodiesel content.
Biodiesal - k9dan
Same overnight at the local SHELL emporium, 7% sticker. Does anyone know if this is safe on a VAG 105PD engine, which says in handbook no biodiesel? I've started using Millers to hopefully negate the biodiesel.
Biodiesal - Old Navy
I believe all European diesel cars can run on 5% biodiesel which is to be phased in by law in 2010. The handbook for my Focus TDCI says that 5% biodiesel EN590 is OK but do not use RME (biodiesel), (I assume this means do not use neat biodiesel or concentrations greater than 5%). I suspect that the 7% signs are legal get outs.

Edited by Old Navy on 08/02/2010 at 22:16

Biodiesal - SteelSpark
I believe all European diesel cars can run on 5% biodiesel which is to be
phased in by law in 2010. The handbook for my Focus TDCI says that 5%
biodiesel EN590 is OK but do not use RME (biodiesel) (I assume this means do
not use neat biodiesel or concentrations greater than 5%). I suspect that the 7% signs
are legal get outs.


According to this article the EN590 standard seems to permit up to 7% (FAME - fatty acid methyl ester) biodiesel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_590

It may be that RME (Rapeseed Methyl Ester) is different from FAME, and that you should just not use RME biodiesel at all.
Biodiesal - Old Navy
It will be fed whatever comes out of a standard diesel forecourt pump!

Edited by Old Navy on 08/02/2010 at 22:27

Biodiesal - CGNorwich
A very interesting question.

Diesel fuel may now contains up to 7% biodiesel. However the existing labelling regulations would have required pumps to carry a warning stating. "Not suitable for all vehicles - consult vehicle manufacturer before use"

A bit off putting eh? Might provoke a reaction?

Simple solution - get the labelling regulations changed. Pumps now only need to state "contains up to 7% biodiesel" Hence the new stickers

Problem solved.

Can't think why we are cynical of government

www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/em/uksiem_20093277_en.pdf
Biodiesal - rtj70
My Mondeo TDCi (EuroIV but replaced in 2007) said do not use any biodiesel in the handbook. But all diesel has some biodiesel in it. I can only assume the low percentage in it is no problem but more may be.
Biodiesal - bhoy wonder
Why is any biodiesal added in the first place?
Biodiesel - FotheringtonThomas
"Biodiesel" is added to meet Gov't "green" targets for renewables.

Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 09/02/2010 at 09:51

Biodiesel - CGNorwich
The consensus among manufacturers was that 5% biodiesel was a safe maximum to avoid damage to engines although this was disputed by many. Bio diesel act as a solvent and dissolves deposits causing clogging of injectors and filters. Being an organic substance it also allows for the growth of algae in the fuel tank.

The EU has now increased the limit to 7% after leaning on the motor manufacturers and the government has now changed the labelling requirements as per my earlier post so that they no longer need warn that the 7% bio diesel may be harmful to your car
Biodiesel - Hamsafar
The biggest concern with biodiesel, is that it is incompatible with exhaust particle traps. Many manufacturers said their cars were perfectly compatible with 100% (B100) biodiesel in early 00s. and then a few years later, withdrew this for the same engines, due to the fitting of DPF type paraphernalia.
Biodiesel - turbo11
A freind of mine works for the DOT in a senior position. He was telling me last year that in the industry there are known problems with Biofuels, but he wouldn't go into specifics. Maybe he knew I would post the details on here.
Biodiesel - b308
The biggest concern with biodiesel is that it is incompatible with exhaust particle traps.


Not just the traps, H, I have had the PD engines and the 2001 was ok'd for it but my latest ones (no trap) isn't... perhaps there's something they are not letting on about?
Biodiesel - the_bandit
Looks like all the garages are doing it now.

I visited BP yesterday to fill up and also noticed the stickers placed over the diesel pumps saying contains 7% biodiesel.

Checked my manual today and it says no more than 5% biodiesel to be used!!

Does anyone know if either Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate diesel contain these levels of biodiesel?
Biodiesel - rtj70
All diesel by law has to contain bio-diesel unfortunately. And looks like it went up from 5% to 7%. My old Mondeo III said no biodiesel at all!
Biodiesel - mrnikko
B P and Shell garages up here in Cumbria also showing 7% Biodiesel.
A friend of mine told me recently that VW Group Diesel engines can run up to 50% Biodiesel in Germany but would not agree to its use over here.
Tried to find out about this but got no further do you know any different.
Also see local Morrisons in Carlisle has withdrawn their 30% bio mix due to low demand presumably.
Filled up on 7% Bio for company car 1000miles later no noticable differance by the way
If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - willchow
If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here.

Edited by willchow on 20/02/2010 at 22:43

If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - CGNorwich
SMMT announces its support for B7 biodiesel blend
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) announced in December
2009 its support for BS EN 590:2009, which permits biodiesel blends with a
biodiesel content of up to 7% to be made available within the EU.

The previous version of fuel standard BS EN 590 allowed the use of up to 5% bio-
content and many suppliers have taken advantage of the full allocation since 2008
with “no apparent ill effects reported.” The increase to 7% is to be phased in and
the SMMT states that “it is very unlikely customers will notice any difference.”

With regard to biofuel labelling, the European Biofuels Directive (2003/30/EC)
currently requires all pumps dispensing transport fuels containing more than 5%
biofuel to be labelled to inform customers at the point of sale, "Not suitable for all
vehicles: consult vehicle manufacturer before use". These regulations will be
amended so that as of April 2010 it will no longer be a requirement to label fuels
containing up to a 7% bio-content blends. Until this time EN 590:2009 compliant
pumps are to display the label, “Contains up to 7% biodiesel”.
If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - the_bandit
I bet there would be a different response if the pump label said "Contains up to 7% Biodiesel - May not be suitable so consult vehicle manufacturer before use" and then people did look at their manuals and it said either no biodiesel or no more than 5%.

Looks to me like the general motoring public are going to be used as the long term test guinea pigs for a 7% mix and I guess they will just keep increasing the level to whatever they can get away with.

Where's the discount on the pump price also given that biodiesel attracts an additional tax break? We are being robbed again !!!

If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - Old Navy
How accurate is the bio content of diesel?

Is it mixed on a X number of buckets in a road tanker full of diesel basis?

What is the error allowed, and could a mix of more than 7% be supplied?

Sorry about all the questions, but if you recieved an "overdose" of bio it could be way beyond the manufactureres spec.
If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - CGNorwich
"Is it mixed on a X number of buckets in a road tanker full of diesel basis? "

Well on a 6000 gallon tanker that would be 210 2 gallon buckets so I doubt it :-)



If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - k9dan
I've started using Millers fuel additive in my Octavia, I don't trust biofuel especially when the manufacturer says not to use it. I know some here think Millers is snakoil, but what else can I do? I hope to run my car longterm and Millers provides extra lubrication to system and keeps it clean (so it claims) I think this is another nail in the coffin for diesel cars as they become less ec***mical due to emissions control, and petrols get more efficient. How many fuel systems are going to fail years down the line when manufacturers won't cover same, and point to biofuel and tell you to approach the fuel company. Look at the carry on a few years back with contaminated fuel when the companies denied it stiff leaving drivers with huge bills.
If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - CGNorwich
The manufacturers are now saying that diesel conforming to BS EN 590:2009 (now containing up to 7% biodiesel) is OK and therefore it should not invalidate your warranty.

Adding fuel additives such as Millers however may well invalidate your warrantgy
If normal diesel has biodiesel in it (small amount) then it has to be okay. Fingers crossed here. - Med

Hey, just read this post.

I have had bad problems with the "normal operation of the DPF" system on my Mazda 6 and there is a huge thread on it leading me to have an engine over-run due to unburnt fuel in the engine oil causing the engine to run of its own fuel.

I then recentely found out and read loads on bio-diesel & how it affects the DPF system leaving the un-burnt fuel in compartments of the engine leading to an increase in wear and corrosion? With 2005-2009 DPF systems the system cannot get to the certain temp. to burn off the bio-fuel which gets left behind, but! mostly all new diesel engines from Feb 2010 have a ceramic diesel particulate filter or some other technology which allows the system to burn the fuel at a much higher temp.

Anyway, my handbook like the rest of yours states not to put any more than 5% bio-fiel in your engine - i have got confirmation that from April 2010 Shell petrol stations have increased their diesel pumps to include a max of 7% which they state is an increase from approx. 5%. Even when this labelling regulation came in, i have not seen one petrol station that has any sort of label explaining the bio-fuel.

The big question as you all ask - if our handbook states 5% and no more, why are the manufacturers not recalling the cars so we do not invalidate our warranty, or we should at least have confirmation from them to state we can use 7% bio-fuel and if we happen to come across any problems we will fix your cars under the original warranty.

I have not heard any of this, so us DPF systems, including just standard diesels are becoming more vunerable to wear and leading to dangerous situations like i was in.

Can anyone help me on this if you have heard any new etc? Also, please do not point at my comments above, i have only just started to understand this bio-diesel so you technical heads out there be kind :)