A high proportion of Sat Nav's I see in cars are mounted on the windscreen and I've often thought these can't be good for road safety - especially for blocking the driver's view of pedestrians and cyclists.
The Road Traffic Act?s Construction and Use regulations say:
"the satellite navigation unit must not be located anywhere within the sweep of the windscreen wipers or anywhere else that would cause obstruction to the clear vision of the driver"
Looks like the authorities agree there's a safety problem.
It seems a lot of drivers are at risk of prosecution if, after an accident they're found by the Police to have had a badly fitted sat-nav.
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''It seems a lot of drivers are at risk of prosecution if, after an accident they're found by the Police to have had a badly fitted sat-nav''...
Good!, although siting it outside the sweep of the wipers could lead some to copy the person I saw on TV last week, who had it handily placed to block her drivers side door mirror.
S6 1SW
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The Road Traffic Act?s Construction and Use regulations say: "the satellite navigation unit must not be located anywhere within the sweep of the windscreen wipers or anywhere else that would cause obstruction to the clear vision of the driver"
This indicates the people giving type approval to many new cars are also ignoring this fact.
How many factory fit units which rise out of the top of the dash or with flip up screens overlap the central sweep area of the windscreen and have bigger screens than the aftermarket 3 to 4" units ?
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My TomTom is affixed to the inside of the map pocket on the dash of my Mazda6. So it does not leavea mark on the windscreen and is closer. This is the same map pocket where a factory fit unit pops ups from so I should be okay ;-)
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I just know the factory fit Volvo unit extends below the bottom of the windscreen and they know a thing or two about safety.
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On my car both the tax disc and the rear view mirror are with the 'swept area' - are they illegal. The thickness of my 'A' pillars is more of a visibility problem than a satnav!
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I find a Brodit dash mount works well. The top of the satnav is level with the bottom edge of the screen
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"The satellite navigation unit must not be located anywhere within the sweep of the windscreen wipers "
can you quote what part of the regulations apply?
to quote from another source:
"there are no specific regulations on satellite-navigation systems, but all objects that can be stuck to your windows and windscreen are covered by the Highway Code and the Construction and Use Regulations of 1986.
Regulation 30 covers the 'view to the front' and says: 'All glass or other transparent material shall be maintained in such condition that it does not obscure the vision of the driver.'
The regulation doesn't detail what 'obscure the vision' means, however. Tax disc holders can take up more windscreen acreage than a compact portable satellite navigation unit, for instance, and there's no complaint about them. "
Has there been a change in the law?
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Nothing will be done unless it becomes the a trendy crime to pursue.
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perhaps sat-navs should be audio only?
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There will be some cause célèbre before long and HMG will use it to hang an ill-written piece of legislation to ban Sat Navs.
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I believe that the slight impingement of the satnav into the field of view from the windscreen impairs safety a lot less than driving whilst trying to read a map or written directions on a piece of paper, or driving in a panic having become hopelessly lost.
Regarding satnavs being audio only, I actually switch off the spoken instructions as for me they do not help and I only find the visual instructions helpful. Different brains take in information best in different ways.
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Horses for courses I guess. I spend a lot of time driving longish distances both in this country and abroad to often unfamiliar places and use my TomTom and Blackberry a lot. I use special ( Brodit Proclips ) clips which fit low down next to the radio to mount them both. I use a Jawbone noise cancelling headset to make and receive calls. The clips are much more effective than window sucker mounts and vent clips at keeping vibration and rattles at bay and do not obscure lines of sight. Also, when you are parked up it is a little less obvious to a casual thief that there may be stealable kit on board. I find that for the most part I listen to the spoken advice from the Satnav without looking at it but of course you can still glance at it if you need to.
One feature I find very useful is if you have the nav on birds eye view and are planning an overtake, it gives you extra insight into potential hazards ahead such as minor junctions etc. Also, by mounting these add ons to the left of the radio, if you do have a passenger, it is easy for them to access the equipment and help out with the navigation.
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The Road Traffic Act?s Construction and Use regulations say:
"the satellite navigation unit must not be located anywhere within the sweep of the windscreen wipers or anywhere else that would cause obstruction to the clear vision of the driver"
To repeat my earlier question, can you quote the relevant change in the legislation. I can find no evidence that the Construction and Use regs have been changed and they do not appear to have ever included the above phraseology.>>
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CGN - I can't get my head round this. You quote the Construction and Use regulations and then say that they do not appear to to have ever included the [quoted] phraseology. In your view is having a sat nav somewhere in a corner of your windscreen, legal, illegal or uncertain?
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I think CGN is just quoting the OP, and can't find where the quote comes from. If you se this, Audi Dave, perhaps you could give us the reference?
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?There are no specific regulations on satellite navigation systems?
Although this news piece is dated not aware of anything more relevant ? hope there is no sin in quoting from this source!
www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217458...2
{please don't post clickable links to whatcar - DD}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/08/2008 at 16:35
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I'll have another go.
{snip, as above, (and that includes using something like tinyurl to workaround the rule) - DD}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/08/2008 at 16:36
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Thanks Avant - I am sharp as a tennis ball today!
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This is something which occurred to me last winter.
It was always the pfds with satnav who would pull out without indicating and, apparently, without checking mirrors.
It's not so bad in the dark: you can at least see which idiots are likely to be distracted.
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Can I just politely point out that not all users of Satnavs are by default idiots or "pfds". In my case I often have to travel to a new destination. Using a Satnav is much safer in my view than struggling to check a map or A-Z on the passenger seat. I find mine invaluable, particularly in large cities.
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>> It was always the pfds with satnav
What is a PFD?
Pretty flipping dim? Or something similar?
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pink fluffy dice
shouldn't have put an "s" on the end
Edited by GroovyMucker on 02/08/2008 at 21:38
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Armitage,
I'm attempting to say that I can find no evidence that the construction & use regs say anything relevant to satnav or indded anything attached to the windscreen, other than section 30 which states
'All glass or other transparent material shall be maintained in such condition that it does not obscure the vision of the driver".
I would like to know where the information contained in the OP's original statement came from
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CGN - thanks for the clarification. I am off to La Belle France next week and what with all the allegations about the illegality of SatNavs giving camera locations and the hard nosed attitude of the Le Plod Francais around Calais I am trying to be legal, both sides of the Channel
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When they start giving people points for having soft toys hanging from the mirror, it'll be time to think about sat navs.
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There is no need for the sat-nav to be attached to the windscreen at all. My TomTom has a piece of Velcro about a couple of cm`s long glued on the back,with the other side stuck on to the dash.It`s hardly noticable as it`s almost the same colour as the dash. My wife`s car has a piece of Velcro as well,in this way the TT is easy to transfer and does not leave a mark on the screen to attract scrotes.
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Source of the information on Construction and Use Regs came from the Institute of Advanced Motorists website. Search on "Satnav Survival Guide". The reference doesn't give any more information than my original post.
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Source of the information on Construction and Use Regs came from the Institute of Advanced Motorists website.
I belive this is just plain incorrect, Not unusal for IAM pronouncements IMHO
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D2561 / Vision obscured / fail maintain windscreen
Full View Summary View NARRATIVE Regulation 30 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 provides for the driver of a motor vehicle to have a full view of the road and traffic ahead and that all glass or transparent material on the vehicle should be maintained free from obstruction of the driver's vision.
30(1) Every motor vehicle shall be so designed and constructed that the driver thereof while controlling the vehicle can at all times have a full view of the road and traffic ahead of the motor vehicle.
30(2) Instead of complying with the requirement of paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with Community Directive 77/649, 81/643, 88/366, 90/630 or, in the case of an agricultural motor vehicle, 79/1073.
30(3) All glass or other transparent material fitted to a motor vehicle shall be maintained in such condition that it does not obscure the vision of the driver while the vehicle is being driven on a road .
SOURCE(S) Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
RELATED MATERIAL 30 View to the front
NATIONAL REGION Great Britain
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as far as I can find, there's no specific mention in the Regulations about Satnavs, the obscuring of a windscreen could apply to anything placed where the driver needs to view.. and he's going to need to view where the wipers sweep
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In Police, Camera, Action last night, it was stated that in Japan, sat-navs must be confiurged in such a way as not to allow reconfig / adjustment while the vehicle is in motion. Their research said that more accidents were caused by people using sat-navs (and taking their eyes off the road) than by mobile phones.
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and he's going to need to view where the wipers sweep
Well as another post has said best get rid of the rear view mirror then because that is certainly within the sweep of my wipers as is the tax disk. I guess it would be for a court to decide whether or not the windscreen was effectivley obscured but it is certainly not as cut and dried as saying if it is within the sweep of the wipers then it's illegal. Like most thinks a degree of commonsense is required. Personally I find that a Satnav on the right of my windscreen and within my line of site is far less distracting than having to look at a dash mounted system or even checking the speedo.
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best get rid of the rear view mirror then because that is certainly within the sweep of my wipers as is the tax disk.
Here is the guidance to MOT testers on how to apply the windscreen regulations:
www.ukmot.com/6-1.asp
The area of main concern is shown shaded "A" in the illustration.
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