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Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - akr
The other day I filled the 93 up at a Shell garage and the difference on a litre between diesel and unleaded was 8p!!! On a full tank fill of more than 50 litres that's 4 or 5 quid. Since the car only does 43 to the gallon I'm thinking my days with diesel could be coming to an end as I could easily find a petrol car (admittedly probably a smaller one but that's not a problem) that'll do 40ish to the gallon and I'm saving on fuel costs.
I know it depends on the mileage and the car you drive as to whether it's worth it but when you factor in the original premium you pay for diesel cars anyway I find it surprising when the papers say (as they did the other day) that diesel car sales will soon overtake the sales of petrols.
Or are we just being shafted by the oil companies again?
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - b308
Mine is 33% more efficent than the equivelent petrol, so with only a 6% difference in price (my current prices on local garages)... and some town work where the diesel is much better than the petrol, yes it is!

Edited by b308 on 22/03/2008 at 11:58

Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Steve Pearce
I recently saw a garage with a 11p differential, (105.9/116.9). Mind you I saw yesterday a (small rural) garage with diesel at 125.9.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - jc2
Well worth it if you buy your fuel in Eire or on mainland EU.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Avant
The difference is always less in the summer months - It was only 1p last year - which is something to do with refinery capacity and the demand for heating oil. Someone may be able to enlighten us more specifically! But yes, I'm sure we're being 'shafted by the oil companies', acting as they do in that depressing unison.

But AKR has a good point in that petrol engines are getting more efficient and he should indeed be able to find a petrol car that will do the job as well as his Saab with little penalty in economy.

It also depends on the diesel engine: my Golf estate averages 50 mpg whereas the previous Mercedes B-class averaged 39 mpg with similar use - yet both are 2.0-litre turbodiesels with 140 bhp.

If I did a lower annual mileage, I think I'd go back to a petrol - probably something with the VAG 2.0 T FSI engine in it.

SWMBO's Mini Cooper managed 46 mpg on its first long run - still running in so may get better: her previous Mini One, with the old Chrysler-designed engine, would have done about 42 mpg.

Edited by Avant on 22/03/2008 at 13:17

Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - MazMan
IMO diesel is still worth it. I drove a 1400Cc Almera for well over a month and the maximum I got out of it was around 40mpg whereas my Mazda 323 2.0TD always does more than 50mpg for the same journey.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - DP
Yes it is. Modern diesels are cheap to run, good to drive, and usually very reliable.

We have one common rail diesel and one turbocharged petrol in our household. The petrol engine has a 100cc capacity advantage, a 70 bhp power advantage, and is pulling about the same weight. In a drag race, the diesel wouldn't see the petrol for dust, but the fact remains that if you drive them both "normally", the diesel feels no slower and returns about 30% better economy. To drive enthusiastically though, there is no contest at all. Petrol walks it.

But in a family car, what do you want?

Cheers
DP
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - XantKing
If anything, I suspect the Band B exemption for the London congestion charge and the changes to VED announced at the budget will boost the sale of new diesels, maybe even passing the 50% mark sometime soon for the first time in this country...?

Owning a diesel is often given as an economical decision, but I actually prefer the way they drive, and consider that before the cost.

Although the cost of ownership (taking into account purchase price, fuel economy and resale price) might make a petrol car the more sensible financial option for lower mileage drivers, I would probably just buy a slightly older or higher mileage diesel - for some reason, it seems easier to compromise this way or to swallow the pill of paying slightly more up front in a lump sum to buy a car than it does to have to be paying a third more week-in, week-out to fill up on fuel.

Not sure if that makes sense, maybe it's just me!
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Alby Back
XantKing - I agree with you. I have also learned to prefer diesels. My previous hatred for them has long passed and even if I my decision was less financially driven I think I would still have a diesel as the main family car.

Edited by shoespy on 22/03/2008 at 15:36

Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - madf
10 years ago , diesels took 18% of the new car market.
It's now 40%.
The forecasts are for 50% plus.

Subaru are not introducing their first diesel for fun.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - jc2
As I said above,it's not cheap in the UK,but in most of the world it is cheaper,sometimes by a lot.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Pendlebury
It will be interesting to see diesel sales when the euro v legislation comes into force.
I wonder if they will maintain a similar share of the market.
I am not a diesel fan but may be tempted when I know they only pollute as much as a petrol after euroV - with the additional benefit of lower CO2.
Honda are the only brand to develop a self contained system so far (all the others using bluetec etc). It will be interesting to see how everyone else follows - I suspect Toyota are about there anyway with the D-CAT system.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - colinh
"most of the world it is cheaper,sometimes by a lot."

That was the situation in Spain until recently; the difference per litre is now down to 3 cents - might have to start using the farmers' pump!
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - T Lucas
Diesel is ok if you like your driving to remind you of white goods,ie,boring,but does the job.Give me a free reving petrol every day of the week.Diesels are just boring.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - BobbyG
Yeah I am always bored when driving my Fabia vrS diesel, the one that outperformed the Mini Cooper on Top Gear.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Alby Back
I know what people mean when they say petrol engines are more "fun". Indeed they can be, especially if you are zip zapping around, but for a long journey and for regular use, I would still prefer a diesel. They each have their place. Re boredom, I find having to fill up with fuel quite tedious and even with my diesel that seems to be far too regular an event ;-) Still quite enjoy being slightly unreconstructed in my wife's petrol hatchback mind when I'm fairly sure no one with a uniform and blue light is around !
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - stunorthants26
The difference when buying a used car is much less. I may well go for a Prius when I get a car for myself as it is easily the most economical automatic around, not to mention petrol being cheaper. At 3-4 years old its not bad value either.
Im a secret hybrid fan, not because they are economy kings as such but because as automatics they are very good comparing well to diesels. Thats why you see so many Prius' with older drivers ( retired prob ).

I get the impression the sky is the limit with fuel prices now, they seem to be creeping up weekly.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Westpig
I may well go for a Prius when I get a car for myself as it is easily the most economical automatic around. >>


not when they're on a long run at speed theyr'e not
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - b308
You need a BMW 520D instead!!

Look at timesonline for Prius/BMW comparison...

Edited by b308 on 23/03/2008 at 09:14

Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - stunorthants26
The BMW costs £27k, the Prius £18k, the 520d averages 40 mpg and does 185 g/km, the Prius does better than that. Even the 320d only does 42mpg and179 g/km.

On what planet does that makes either car more economical than the Prius?

The Golf diesel auto does 48 mpg with emissions at 153 g/km.

So why the Prius is such a bad choice as even if it can only match the Golf, its still cheaper to buy the fuel and road tax.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Morgie
The BMW costs £27k the Prius £18k the 520d averages 40 mpg and does 185
g/km the Prius does better than that.


Oh dear someone else who has fallen for the hybrid con. It is absolute nonsense to base a cars green credentials on the amount of CO2 it produces. Hybrids are not green, their whole of life environmental impact is much greater than that of a conventional car.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - boxsterboy
"Subaru are not introducing their first diesel for fun".

And Porsche are bringing out the Cayenne with the VW V10 TDI soon. And they said they would never sell a diesel!
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Roly93
- which is something to do with refinery capacity and the demand for heating
oil. Someone may be able to enlighten us more specifically! But yes I'm sure we're
being 'shafted by the oil companies' acting as they do in that depressing unison.

I thought heating oil was kerosene based noit diesel ??
The price differential for once isnt our lovely government, it is blatant profiteering on the part of the oil companies.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Galad
SWMBO insisted on buying a new petrol Corsa last year as the (2002) Mazda 323TD we have 'is too big and awkward to drive'. After a week she aksed me to use the Corsa for my daily work commute because she was fed up putting petrol it and hated the lack of power.

Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - dumbo
I was told by a motor engineer years ago that oil cannot be turned into whatever fuel you want. The refining process can only separate out the fractions that are there already so every gallon of unrefined oil is going to yield so much kerosene, so much petrol, so much diesel, so much heavy heating oil, etc, regardless of what the refiners can sell.

I didn't understand the technical details but I think I've got the basics right. I remember, too, I think, that diesel is much the same as household heating oil which maybe a reason why the diesel price is much higher in winter when the demand is that much higher.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Pendlebury
You need a BMW 520D instead!!

They are so sluggish - if you like pootling around town they are ok but they are just to underpowered.
Tried one and thought it was terrible.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - jc2
Why do people think PRIUS are good for the environment and ignore the pollution and filth involved in the manufacture of lead and acid for the large batteries and also the disposal of the same batteries in the future?
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - stunorthants26
I certainly dont care if it is, its just an economical automatic, I care abouts its enviromental impact much in the same way that anyone who doesnt buy an economical cardoes and does their damage to the enviroment an another way.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - b308
All the article was showing is that you could have a bigger car with an efficient diesel engine that could better the Prius in real-world driving rather than in labratory tests...

If you insist on including price/emmissions, then look at the Band B list of cars and see the one that costs over £4k less than the Prius, has no extra batteries in its manufacture, is not as full of complicated electronics as the Prius and has a bigger boot....

Hybrids may be a way forward, but not with a petrol engine, all the batteries do is make a less efficient engine very slightly more efficient....
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - stunorthants26
>>Hybrids may be a way forward, but not with a petrol engine, all the batteries do is make a less efficient engine very slightly more efficient....<<

I beg to differ about how much difference the batteries make - look at the economy of any Focus sized petrol auto, most will be pushed to better 35 mpg in normal driving - id say the the Prius is more than just slightly more efficient. It may well not be the final solution and quite honestly I think its mystifying why they didnt start this technology with diesels, but its the most workable current idealogy. Its certainly going to make large 4x4's more acceptable.

I think many manual diesels can match a Prius but the automatic diesels seem to loose out considerably - 40 mpg average is poor by today standards from a company like BMW.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - henry k
>>I think its mystifying why they didnt start this technology with diesels,
>>
IIRC the Prius was aimed at the US market where diesels are not acceptable so the Brits are offered what is available not what may be best for the UK market.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - b308
Think the key may be in when the batteries are being used instead of the engine - below 30mph, I believe. Thats why any auto without battery assistance (petrol or diesel) will fair worse than a Prius in town traffic, though using a small (1.4) diesel instead of the 1.5 petrol in the Prius would make a very efficient vehicle - especially as the diesel would also be far more efficient at lugging those batteries around than the petrol as it would have all the extra torque....

A diesel hybrid with a small 1.4 tdi engine would make a very tempting car I have to admit....

Edited by b308 on 23/03/2008 at 15:57

Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Avant
Theoretically a diesel hybrid would be ideal - but I wonder how pleasant it would be to drive in town. With the Prius you can hardly tell when the petrol engine comes in, whereas with any current diesel you'd know about it soon enough....

I've had several long test drives in Priuses and would seriously consider one if I didn't do so many motorway miles, and also if it had better rear visibility. If ever there was a car that didn't need a spoiler, it's the Prius.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - b308
You'd live with it I suspect - whilst the 3 cyl VAG engine is noisy, many of the other 1.4 4 cyl tdis are pretty quiet.... turn the radio up a notch or two!!

More importantly is pedestrian safety - if we all went about in silent electric cars I can see the death/injury toll going up in urban areas... so what's the remedy there?
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - oilrag
Towing a big static single cylinder diesel engine on a trailer to keep the battery charged ;)

Bet it would be a loophole in the congestion charge and emission regs though...
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - madf
"More importantly is pedestrian safety - if we all went about in silent electric cars I can see the death/injury toll going up in urban areas... so what's the remedy there?"

Make jaywalking illegal: and enforce it.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - stunorthants26
Or maybe, and it sounds radical, but to look before you step into the road. I know its kinda out there but ive been doing it for years and it really works.

Honestly, does nobody take any responsibility for themselves anymore?
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - davmal
>>Honestly, does nobody take any responsibility for themselves anymore?

I blame the government.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Pugugly
Well, actually, I blame the blame culture.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Alby Back
It's not us......... it's the others ;-)
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - MikeTorque
Is the Seat Ibiza Ecomotive 1.4TDi 80 PS DPF the most fuel efficient car around ?
Official figures :

Urban (mpg) 57.6
Extra urban (mpg) 88.3
Combined (mpg) 74.3
CO2 (g/km) 99
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - Waino
Is the Seat Ibiza Ecomotive 1.4TDi 80 PS DPF the most fuel efficient car around? ...


Those economy figures caught my eye, so I looked for further information. One source said:

"And special low rolling resistance 14" tyres from Dunlop help reduce road friction. "

So, I think to myself, does this mean that "special" tyres are going to be more difficult to source. Are these splendid high-tech engines going to be highly-strung and costly to maintain?

Anyone any experiences of these things?
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - smokescreen
So far the special 'low resistance' tyres i've come across have been awful in the wet, and they were from Michellin . Wonder if that applies to these too.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - KMO
Why do people think PRIUS are good for the environment and ignore the pollution and filth involved in the manufacture of lead and acid for the large batteries and also the disposal of the same batteries in the future?

Because they've got more of a clue than you and know they're not lead-acid batteries.

Sigh.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - adverse camber
still plenty of pollution in the battery make and dispose cycle.

Reality is that the hybrids and electric vehicles are for local air pollution. They displace pollution from point of use to point of generation and that makes a difference in smog laden california.

On an overall green-ness rating I still think that you are better off in a good diesel.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - oilrag
"And special low rolling resistance 14" tyres from Dunlop help reduce road friction. "

I wonder if these narrow 165 tyres will wear out quickly on the front end negating the fuel saving over a few MPG less on standard tyres?

It looks like you could buy two diesel Pandas for the purchase price. That said, the fuel consumption is impressive as a stand alone statistic

Edited by oilrag on 24/03/2008 at 14:15

Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - jc2
Some low rolling resistance tyres have little grip as well.
Diesel - is it worth it anymore? - daveyjp
Dunlop were one of only three manufacturers who made tyres for the A2 as they were a special size - IIRC my fronts lasted over 30,000 miles and gripped well.
 

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