Interesting on the car owner issue - of course the RK isn't necessarily the owner of the car, but the bailiffs seemed to regard the DVLA record as absolute proof.
I don't know how those guys didn't tell the Jeep woman that she knew what she could do if she didn't like it here.
And why did the Bobby let off the woman who's lied about her insurance - OK, it would have been a nightmare, but it's hardly even handed treatment, is it?
I thought the bailiff having his car locked in at the end of the day was brilliant!
|
|
Personally, I feel sorry for the poors beggars that try to park their cars in London. I mean, they just want to park the things, it's not murder or arson is it! They get wacked by huge initial fines, then wacked by court costs, then enforcer costs. The French woman was restrained & dignified in my opinion. The parking regulations are arcane, inconsistent & arbitrary - they're just undeclared taxes for daring to have a car.
|
They get wacked by huge initial fines then wacked by court costs then enforcer costs. The parking regulations are arcane inconsistent & arbitrary - they're just undeclared taxes for daring to have a car.
>>
Surely - either don't get a parking "fine" in the first place, or
if you do get a ticket pay it promptly - then you won't get court costs and enforcement costs.
You will probably tell me that I have missed something!
|
Surely - either don't get a parking "fine" in the first place or if you do get a ticket pay it promptly - then you won't get court costs and enforcement costs.
Uh, yes they will still issue a ticket even if you are parked legally and with a valid ticket - then try arguing with them about it!!!!!!
Gone are the days when we were innocent until proven guilty!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
PU
That's nothing; round here the police regularly park their ANPR van [and big sign] halfway down an acceleration lane [joining a fast dual-carriageway, at a known accident blackspot] on a clearway!!
If I could have legally stopped; I'd have had a "quiet word."
|
disgusting they kept an ambulance waiting with a heart patient in it while they lifted a car to get there pennies,also what about the car not taken as the fines were more than the car was worth.nothing to do with breaking the law then but how much they can make out of it.
|
|
All they did was hassle people parking in their own town and extort ridiculous amounts for their communist paymaster. The only people I saw parked who caused any obstruction, was the ANPR van and the tow truck, repeatedly, and at one time an ambulance with sirens on. Disgusted. It could only happen here.
|
>>>>>>>>>>>>All they did was hassle people parking in their own town and extort ridiculous amounts for their communist paymaster
I worked in London for many years and paid silly money to park my van there. However, most of these people shown in this (excellent) program as 'poor victims' were persistant offenders then act all shocked and indignant when they are caught on camera because of their own stupidity.
Simple, dont park illegally and there will be no ticket, no fines and no bailiffs.
Granted, the bloke who blocked the entrance to the Heart Hospital should have his licence taken away on the grounds that he appears to have no brains at all.
|
"Simple, dont park illegally and there will be no ticket, no fines and no bailiffs."
I agree with what you say about "persistant offenders" but isn't this about "the punishment fitting the crime"? For a initial parking fine to escalate to £600 when bailiff's charges, towaway etc are added on seems a bit excessive for the crime. My daughter parked too close to a dropped kerb in a quiet residential street in North London at the (disused ) entrance to a park in N London from 7pm one evening, by 7am the next morning her car had been towed away and it cost nearly £300 to get her car back. Yesterday on our local news was an item about a youth who attacked and broke the jaw of a 73 year old who then spent several days in hospital. The youth was fined £300. Do these punishments fit the crime?
I have to say that the attempt by the programme to make heroes of these bailiffs (I exclude the police on the programme from this point) leaves a sour taste.
All IMHO of course
--
Phil
|
I agree with Phil, when searching for an ' offending ' car, the bailiffs will drive past the property where it's registered . If they can't see it, they keep driving to the next item on the list. If they find the car on the 4th visit , they charge about £80 for each of the ' aborted ' visits when adding up the sum due .
It is daylight robbery , all sanctioned by the government and very disgusting. There has to be proportionality between the ' offence ' and the fine . I was in Cannes on the Riviera about 18 months ago, and looked at a parking ticket given to a car ; It was 11 euros , or what the day's street parking would have cost . That's reasonable , and you have a long time to pay , no escalation . My hire car overstayed somewhere by 2 hours and there was no ticket , oh, and at lunchtime , appx 12 - 4 pm, all parking was free ( to allow the wardens lunch ... )
We should be alarmed that there is a bill about to go through ( has it gone through already ? ) the upper house which will allow bailiffs to enter homes ( i.e kick the door down ) in search of registered keepers, and other fine defaulters .
|
|
|
and on the same note , bear in mind that UK planning authorities stopped taking physical enforcement action ( i.e sending down builders to destroy your illegally - built extension ) against illegal construction around 1976 , when two enforcement officers got shot dead by a disgruntled ' home improver ' in Enfield ( I think it was Enfield , but doesn't matter where ).
Now, and as a direct consequence of the aforementioned incident , all they do is send letters and maybe take the owner to court - you can build what you like if you have no mortgage and they can't track you down.
I can't believe that these clamping bailiffs / wardens haven't been popped by anyone yet . It's only a matter of time . You go around trying to earn a living , and some moron in a baseball cap decided he wants £600 to release your car .
I sued TFL for the return of £600 paid to release a clamped car . My claim was disallowed on a jurisdiction technicality , but at least I cost TFL more than that in legal fees , as submitted to the court , which they failed to get registered against me - everyone must do the same and they will collapse . I am not in essence against the need to pay to enter Central London by car , but am against the draconian measures and tricks they deploy against those who fail to pay immediately .
KEN MUST GO !!!
Edited by motorprop on 07/12/2007 at 03:57
|
I don't park illegally, but I agree that parking enforcement in this country is effectively legalised extortion.
Laws in this country seem to be increasingly geared towards excessively punishing low-level driving offences, because they're easy to track due to the car registration.
|
I agree with the cost not fitting the crime and it is yet another example of motorists being an easy target.
However, looking at the examples of people consistently failing to pay fines (eg the female in the program), what else are they supposed to do? She obviously didn't care two hoots about paying fines so she deserved everything she got.
Fortunately I don't live near London and can look on its problems from afar. There are far too many vehicles there for the space it has. It has an excellent public transport system, maybe not as good as others like Tokyo etc but still very good.
Ken is wrong whatever he does, the problem in London is the sheer wealth that there is in the city. Congestion charging won't stop those that can afford it (they just register their limos as private cabs), penalty fines won't stop them either. They probably have direct debits set up for their fines! Its like the CO2 VED charges, if you have a gas guzzler and its going to cost an extra £300 or whatever to tax your car over a family diesel, then is it going to put you off - of course it won't!
But it does affect the less wealthy ones and these are probably the ones who rely on their vehicles the most, probably work shifts and can't use public transport. And thats where the unfairness comes in.
--
2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
|
|
well, I've been driving in London for 22 years and can tell you that due to it's size and bit - piece layout , there is no way of totally relying on public transport . It's too fragmented and the buses ( whick Ken has improved ) are full of psychos carrying knives . If you live in the suburbs , don't need to drive at rush hour and like to get around , then a car here is essential . It's a huge city , after all .
|
motorprop:
Councils can and will take action against unauthorised developments, and will charge the cost of any demolition work to the owner! The land registry database is not dependant upo mortgages, but the owner would usually declare themselves bankcrupt, whilst transferring title ownership to family. Typically this enforcement action would be carried out with police protection, but like everything people have many, many chances to resolev the problem before the bulldozers are sent in.
Regarding "the enforcers", I caught a programme the other week that stopped a lady for no insurance (which she disputed), whilst on the way to her Mum's 50th. They seized her vehicle there and then. It later transpired she did have valid insurance (purchased the day before) but it had not been entered on the computer!
At the same time, the police chap and commentator were parroting "another potentially dangerous vehicle has been taken off the road" blah blah.
yet it was clear the mistake was with the system, and not with the driver as she was doing nothing wrong.
This to me as a clear sign that policing by computer is a complete farce, and could only imagine the production company broadcasting it must have been doing it "ironically".
What we need is policing by experience - so an traffic officer car can stop a car for dangerous driving when he sees it, rather than a plastic police agency just throwing out a trawler net with a camera.
I think ANPR is a useful aid to policing by experience, but certainly no substitute.
Having said that,
as I'm in the public sector, I can appreciate the need to perform to targets. A £100k van that gets 100 people a week prosecuted is far better value than a £50k officer that might only get 10 a week. But it is this whole "do what is easily measurable" rather than "do what is right" attitude from Downing Street that is crippling the public sector IMHO.
Also, there was a gardner who'se Kiwi helper drove his car - it got seized as he wasn't insured, the NZ bloke arersted, and the gardner arrested for TWOC when he drove his car away in fustration. There was literally 8 officers and 3 or 4 vehicles dealing with this one incedent.
If I was associated with traffic policing, I would be quite ashamed....
Ian
|
|
well, I'd love to know of actual examples , and even if there were, it's probably single figures across the whole country against 1000's of unapproved developments every year .
|
|
Phil, I have to agree 100% and your daughter's case is absurd and this kind of action should be outlawed.
I agree that in a lot of cases the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
I have to say that I speak from experience a bit here. I have only ever got one parking ticket when I misunderstood a sign and thought I could park there. I could have parked 20 feet away for free so it was a genuine mistake. A £30 ticket went up to £120 as I was trying to appeal but should have paid THEN appealled.
The people in this program remind me of the people in the 'Airport' type programs where Mr Disorganised arrives late for his flight then blames everyone else for his mistake, swears, curses then has to wait for the next one.
I dont agree with the charges but as I said before, the fact that I had a parking ticket go up by 400% makes it certain that will read, read and read again the parking regs if I am ever parking in built up areas again, please no!
Most of the unwilling contributors to the program drove very nice cars and I would imagine they felt the law simply didnt apply to them.
One of the reasons I stopped working in London many years ago is that the incentivised Gestapo (sorry, parking attendants) are ready to pounce if you are 30 seconds over on a meter.
One funny story, I was working in Sutton Surrey a few years ago when a car was dumped in the residents bay outside where I was working. A ticket was put on the car within a few hours and a passing local tramp took it off and put it in the bin. He did this every time he shuffled past the car which was several times a day. He told us he was doing it to 'keep the pink fluffy dice busy' as each time they saw the car with an empty windscreen they spent 5 minutes issuing another ticket that was obviously never going to be paid.
: o )
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 07/12/2007 at 21:19
|
|
And let's not forget, most of this money is going to big foreign companies such as Serco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
