Went looking for a Focus estate yesterday (see:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=56...8
). Had a drive in a private 2001 1.6 Zetec, but it seemed like too much hard work to get it moving- obviously it was going to feel slower than the 200bhp Leon TFSI it's replacing, but it also seemed less lively than our 1.0 (mk1) Yaris.
So on to a dealer 2001 2.0 Ghia, and that was more like it. Dealer was happy to show the paperwork, and I've put down a £200 deposit, for pick up next weekend. However, while looking at the V5, I noticed that the model was stated as CL rather than Ghia. Dealer said it was just human error, and I accepted this in the excitement of getting a (sort of) new car. Later, getting an insurance quote, entering the registration resulted in the system displaying the model as a 1.4 CL, although it let me change this.
I'm reasonably confident that everything is above board, but what should I do to make sure? I guess the first thing is ask dealer to check that the VIN(?) on the V5 matches that on the car- is that his responsibility, or mine?
John
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Have you checked the visible VIN against the Document ?
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Have you checked the visible VIN against the Document ?
Unfortunately not- dealer is about 20 miles away so was going to ask dealer today to check that for me; presumably it's in his interest as well.
What other VIN is there besides the visible one? I'm not very clued up on this sort of thing.
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There's the VIN on the plate under the bonnet, and there's the VIN at the bottom of the windscreen. Both should match with the V5.
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If you want to be totally sure, phone Ford Customer Service, quote the chassis number and they should be able to tell you straight away if it is a CL or Ghia, they will not need to go off DVLA info which can be inaccurate.
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Alarm bells are ringing very loudly in my ears. If the VIN matches up, it's up to you. If it doesn't, walk away. If the dealer won't refund your deposit, I'm sure the relevant authorities might encourage him to do so ;-)
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If the VIN matches up it's up to you.
... to do what- notify DVLA that the V5 is wrong? But otherwise it's ok?
Thanks for the replies.
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....and how does the dealer know its Human error ???
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....and how does the dealer know its Human error ???
Because if you had as much experience as the dealer in buying/selling cars, you would soon realise that this is very common, due to the sheer number of dimwits that work in main dealers. Mistakes are often made by the original supplying dealer when first registering the car with the DVLA; wrong colours, model designations etc being listed, that sort of thing. I's have to be dotted and T's have to be crossed at this stage and inevitably they are not; no doubt lots to do with the general decline of education in this country!
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... to do what- notify DVLA that the V5 is wrong? But otherwise it's ok?
No - to decide whether you want to go ahead with the purchase. Still sounds decidedly dodgy to me. Get an online HPI report (it's worth the money) - this might shed a bit of light.
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RAC do it for a fiver...
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Just went to mycarcheck.com and paid £3.95 to find nothing worrying apart from the model being stated as 'Ford Focus Cl'. But that's based on the registration, so I guess I just need to compare the engine number on the car with that given in the info to make sure the info corresponds to the car.
If I ask the dealer to give me the engine number so I can do the comparison myself, that should decide it?
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Check the spec ~ the CL is the bottom spec.
Bodyside moulding: CL black, Ghia body colour
Driver's seat height adjustment: CL manual, Ghia electric
Driver's armrest: CL no, Ghia yes
Centre third rear head restraint: CL no, Ghia yes
Door mirrors: CL manual, Ghia electric
Leather trimmed steering wheel: CL no, Ghia yes
Trip computer: CL no, Ghia yes
Rear brakes: CL drums, Ghia (2.0) discs
ABS: CL no, Ghia yes
etc etc. I'm quoting from a 2002 brochure. Any dubious features I can check for you.
--
L\'escargot.
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Check the spec ~ the CL is the bottom spec. Driver's seat height adjustment: CL manual Ghia electric
Thanks- definitely had electric, had a play with it.
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The V5 information DVLA holds is generated by the information on the V55 form supplied to the supplying dealer by the manufacturer. There isn't really that much scope for mistakes.This sounds DODGY ,DODGY,DODGY. Walk away .There are thousands of used focuses out there and one of them is for you ,not this one though. I have seen many people buy some real dogs, and usually because they've been denied the opportunity of buying something else.Take a break,unwind this deal and start again.You won't regret it.
Good luck
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No, I meant a proper HPI check. Showing everything - whether it's been written off, whether the plates have ever been changed etc etc.
If it's been written off, the car you're buying might be a ringer - i.e. it's been nicked, and given the identity of a legitimately written-off Focus 1.4CL.
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Vehicle Status
Colour Changes There is no record of this registration being subject to a colour change.
Plate Transfer There is no record of this registration being subject to a plate change
Scrapped There is no record of this registration being scrapped
Exported There is no record of this registration being exported
Stolen There is no record of this registration being stolen.
Stolen/Recovered There is no record of this registration being stolen/recovered
Insurance Write-off There is no record of this registration being written-off
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OK, it's HPi clear, so the dealer's "human error" theory might be correct. So, up to you.
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It might be cheaper to tax if DVLA think it's a 1.4!
I would imagine that the model discrepancy would cause all sorts of problems if the car was written off (or worse - as there would be nothing to look at - stolen).
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Only three things to do
walk, walk and walk.
There are plenty more out there.
You may be happy to take the risk but what if you want to sell it? Or you claim on the insurance .....
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There are plenty more out there.
That's what I thought, but in fact there were precious few that met our criteria within a reasonable distance. I once drove around for a few months in a 1.8 Mondeo with the wrong registration because of a genuine dealer error, so I know they can happen.
I've emailed the dealer to send me the engine number (not in today); hopefully that will decide it one way or the other.
Thanks again.
John
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>>> Only three things to do
>>> walk, walk and walk.
Exactly what I would do !
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The VIN is stamped into the bodyshell front R/H corner of driver's seat-should be flap in carpet to allow you to see it-this one can't be replaced without major work unlike the other two.
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Engine number should be last two letters and all five numbers from the VIN.
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You could ring Ford customer services and quote the Vin and engine number and ask what car it should be.
It's certainly not unknown for the DVLA to have the wrong info.
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if its not a grey import or comes from say ni then any ford dealer should be able to tell you exactly what the spec is from the number plate alone if you ask nicely
as sais hpi and swansea see can and are often wrong but the manufacturer should know what they built (excepting the 3 door 5 door astra estate obviously only hugo has the answer ;-) ,i fancy building one of these now and putting it on an internet site as a one off that got away starting bids of £15,000 )
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DUN and you have been
please send wonga
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Thanks guys- just need to get the VIN off the actual car. All I've got at the moment is the one on the V5, which according to the HPI check (based on the registration) belongs to a 'clean' Focus CL, not a Ghia which is what I've put a deposit on.
John
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I'd get the VIN yourself rather than depend on a third party....
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Get the VIN and then Go to a Ford Dealerships Parts department give them the VIN and ask them what it comes back as.
The Ford system if I remember correctly has Paint code key numbers and Interior trim level engine number etc
Very useful detail. I had a Renault Scenic that was an Alize Sport but everyone from DVLA to Ins co's had it as another model. Thing was I drove it from new and I knew what I had!
Paul
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human error does happen - a colleague had a Montego with two numbers transposed on the front number plate - it was ten years before it was noticed during an MOT!!!
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On my 03/03 2.0 Ghia the VIN number is also visible behind/through the windscreen, near the bottom on the passenger side.
--
L\'escargot.
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As I said higher up the only one that can't be changed easily is the one in the bodyshell by the front seat.
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Dealer has checked the enigne number himself- I emailed him before reading the post about the hard to change VIN- and it ties in with the HPI info. Seems like an honest bloke, and anyway, he must know now I'm going to check it myself when I pick the car up, so at the moment I'm happy.
BTW did try ringing Ford customer service, asked if they could check the registration, but they told me that they couldn't help and said to contact the Ford dealer. Rang the dealer that had done the servicing (FFSH) - confirmed that registration had been serviced by them, but couldn't tell me what spec the car was.
John
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As the Insurance companies use V5 data for car insurance, something could go badly worng if you have a claim.
i'd run miles. This could be a clone and hence HPI clear.. and it will never show...
madf
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As the Insurance companies use V5 data for car insurance something could go badly worng if you have a claim.
Although the spec initially came up as a 1.4 CL when I changed my policy online, I corrected it (ie. to 2.0 Ghia), so shouldn't that be ok?
This could be a clone and hence HPI clear.. and it will never show...
Doesn't the VIN check protect against that? What exactly is a clone, and how do I know for sure if I've got one?
I appreciate the warnings, but know that human errors do occur and would rather not have to find another car.
Cheers
John
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If you go on to the Ford Technical Information Services (TIS) Website and register (it's free). One of the free services on there allows you to put your VIN number in to reveal the specs for your car.
-----------------------------------------------
2005 Ford Mondeo Zetec 2.0 TDCi 130ps
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snipquote
Many thanks- did that, and the info there corresponds to the car I've put the deposit on. I think that pretty much confirms it's just the DVLA that have the wrong info, which I will attempt to correct once I'm the owner.
I wonder why Ford customer services couldn't (or wouldn't) give me this info when I rang the other day, or at least mention the website. Three cheers for the HJ forum and its users.
John
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 09/10/2007 at 18:54
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