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You can not get insure in your own name until you have passed you test. Consider dual control rental cars like Arnold Clark at £9 per hour plus fuel. then a few lasson from a school and take his test in the school car. Do pass plus then look at your options. Regards Peter
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Some good suggestions above - I guess that I followed manatee's ideas the closest. Teaching son and daughter the basics, but then getting a family friend (whose daughters were their school friends) who had recently given up driving instruction for a more lucrative profession, to give them lessons. We were lucky in some respects - there was an old abandoned airfield nearby to practise basics on; our second car was an old BX, which had done 150k and was worth nothing, to practise in; we have loads of very quiet country roads around, on which to practise. We paid some of the lesson costs but they also paid, via evening/weekend jobs at a supermarket.
I don't think I would have tried to "teach" them myself - too many bad habits? and, they would say, too bad tempered! - but I enjoyed going out in the evening so that they could practise - though the carpet in the passenger footwell got rather worn by being used as a brake pedal!
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Phil
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Phil yup, the worn passenger 'brake bits' are one of the many things I am thinking of, not because of wear and tear but cos of nervous passenger syndrome. But you've given me an idea, actually.
From all the advice I have so quickly received here tonight, I am thinking about a course of proper lessons, for which I will have to start saving up poste-haste, plus afterwards going out with me, and also, if my dear old Dad will consider it, my son going out with him too from time to time. There will be much more respect and consideration there than my lad going out with me. Or if that's not possible, I have a mate or two who might consider it.
I'm so grateful for all these responses tonight. This is something I'm going to come back to especially in regard to the insurance, as from what I hear it's at least about £1500 for a young learner.
Thanks all.
HF
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"from what I hear it's at least about £1500 for a young learner."
Is it really that much?? Seem to remember it was about £200 10 years ago when I added son and daughter to my policy. Are you sure you are not confusing insurance taken out for 17 year old DRIVER, with ADDING a Learner to YOUR policy?? (Not shouting - just trying to emphasise difference!!)
Mind, I could be completely wrong - but cost of lessons pales to insignificance beside that insurance cost!
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Phil
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>>Seem to remember it was about £200 10 years ago
I was told just over £1000 to include my Daughter on my policy,But was told once the test was passed premium would drop by 50%,So far its worked out cheaper for lessons rather than me teach so will will carry on with paying for lessons
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Steve
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"just over £1000"
Blimey! You have my sympathy!!
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Phil
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Minefield.
Phil I may well have confused the 'adding driver to my policy' with the other thing.
But from what Steve is saying, prices have gone up a lot since you put your kids through the test.
I hope not to bore you all with this for another nine months! - but I'm staggered by, and really grateful for, all the replies tonight. I'm kind of glad to have put out the feelers early, because at least I have some idea of what I am going to be faced with (bankruptcy and a re-mortgage?!).
Thanks all, have told my son about all replies up until he went to bed, he also takes it on board and has said he will start trying to save up too. What worries me is that he's also now talking about a moped, a pushbike, or even learning on a motorbike. And for all I have said about the cost of learning to drive a car, and some may mock me for this, I would rather mortgage my soul than have him trying to negotiate the streets between here and Dartford on any of the above. Yes I am being 'over-protective mother' but every single week I see horrific local stories regarding bikes of all types. And cars too, yes - which is why I want him to have the best possible training, in the best, safest possible vehicle, that I can do.
Limited resources, yes, but I would literally do anything to get him the safest training possible, and I'm sure there's no-one here who would disagree with that, at least.
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If you can't afford proper lessons then maybe telling him the bad news if he wants more than a couple he'll have to get a job and fund them himself is the most sensible option. If he does do this he'll probably appreciate them and value them a lot more. Ditto his first car or sticking him on your insurance. If he can't afford it then he'll have to take the bus until he can. It's tough love but a reality lesson won't go amiss!
I wouldn't recommend taking him out yourself until he has quite a few lessons and wants to get extra driving time. The first ones are usually the most patience challenging. If you have some friends that would be willing to take him out it might be a lot easier as learning to drive with a close relative is usually a recipe for slanging matches and sulking :-)
teabelly
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A friend added his Son onto his policy as a leaner but when, and they did warn him, he passed his test they would not insure him at all. BMW 5 series. Remember as soon as your off spring pass the driving test tell the insurance company. There was a case of a lassie passing her test and on getting home popping out for a drive on her own. Totalled the car on the front of a bus and the insurance company refused to pay as she was not a supervised learner driver. Regards Peter
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Having son and daughter pass tests recently I quickly understood why it was £600 to add girl and £1000+ to add boy to insurance! Daughter even drove across London and round Marble Arch with L plates, son didn't get off the airstrip....
Get your son the highway code now then he can sit the theory as soon as he is 17 - you can practise the multichoice questions on the web - although he should have a lesson or two first to get help with the hazard perception tests as you fail if you buzz too many hazards as well as too few.
Neither went on the road until with a professional instructor (they get paid to be frightened!) If you can get on private land, such as an old airstrip (should be some round your area even if you have to go out towards Biggin Hill!) so he can practise stopping, starting + basic gear changing without stalling or kangerooing. Mirror and position drill he can do anywhere - seeing you driving well will be his best lesson.
Don't stick with the same instructor if you/son are not 100% happy. Both mine changed instructors haivng stayed too long with ones who were wrong for them.
Both children worked from 13 starting with paper-rounds, son (since 14) works for local council as an attendant at the local recreation centre where they pay hourly rate without discounting for youth! He is looking for more work now as he had not realised how expensive petrol was - wait til he has to run his own car!
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Ours have both been through it, latest 2 years ago.
Would recommend them starting with an instructor since the way I was taught to drive, and still drive, (use of gears) would apparently fail a test now! You can always teach them new systems AFTER they have passed.
When they (and you) are ready start to take them out yourself but try not to change anything their paid instructor has told them to do, concentrate on hazard awareness and anticipation a junctions. Also if there is a junction they say they don't like, or don't handle well, make sure they go round/through it over and over and over and over again, especially if, like my daughters least favourite roundabout, it is near the test centre.
As for boys (I have one and he still speaks to me) - make it very clear to him that if he shows signs of not listening/taking advice then all driving lessons will stop immediately (i.e just as soon as he can stop and you can change seats) and stick to it.
May also be worth speaking to the chief examiner for your local test centre and asking him who submits the best prepared candidates. You should also ask the instructor what DoT grade they are before you book the first lesson (scale is 1-6 with 6 being the best, and rarest - I only know one and he is retired now, use a 5 or 6 only (1-3 have pink(?) cards and can only teach under supervision (not 100%) BSM used to employ lots of them, don't know if they still do) - it is one case where fewer lessons at a couple of quid more per lesson is cheaper.
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BSM lessons can be bought cheap by using Tesco Clubcard points - tinyurl.com/zbdtt - £60 of Clubcard points gets £240 worth of lessons, say 8-9 lessons?
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I took both my sons (3 years apart) out on quiet roads on a local industrial estate to get them used to the basics, clutch control, gearchanging, steering etc. They both had lessons from a professional instructor and I took them out for practice in between. Don't worry about gettting used to two cars they managed that with no problem.
We had an old car insured in my name which they used for practice, adding them to the insurance as a learner was not expensive, having them as the main driver once they had passed their tests was/is expensive but less so than insurance in their own name.
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HF - Very nice to see one of your typically thoughtful contributions again after what seems a fairly long silence, albeit only since January, and I'm glad that DVD's advice was so successful regarding the parking ticket.
Henry K's dictum, "When I shout STOP I mean NO questions just hit the brakes etc", summed up both the learning and insurance issues for me in one sentence, and really struck a chord to remind me of my own very sharp learning curve - pun intended.
My learning experience was so long ago that it probably has little relevance in today's world, starting as I did absolutely from scratch with five two hour lessons over five days, starting on the Monday after Christmas and ending that Friday with the test taking place during the tenth hour on the Friday morning, coupled with driving with my Father in the afternoons.
The instructor and I drove away from the driving school in the centre of Edinburgh, and ten minutes later he stopped, put me behind the wheel, explained the controls, and off we went to practice on the then western Edinburgh test area - pace the residents of Woodford Green who seem to have been so put upon recently. On the Wednesday, the instructor decided to confirm the time of the test on the Friday, and I had my first experience of road rage since he nearly had a seizure when, on checking, he discovered that it was actually due to take place on the then eastern Edinburgh test area! An exciting drive through the centre of Edinburgh followed as we went off to familiarise me with the eastern area.
Is there a point to this story? Yes, I found the afternoon sessions, driving on the outskirts of the city with my Father, immensely useful since he quietly let me get on with what the instructor had told me, with one startling exception on the first day. We were returning along a long straight derestricted road (which I confidently bet now has a 40 or 50 mph limit, and at least two cameras!), when Father suddenly shouted "Stop! Stop! Stop!", which I immediately did. He then peremptorily ordered me out of the driving seat and, when I politely queried what, if anything, I had done wrong, said "You didn't, I did. I completely forgot to have you insured to drive this car!"
This was put right the next day, and I should also add that the examiner did not require me to do an emergency stop during the test - I had to initiate it myself when the car in front of me overturned on black ice, following which the examiner said that one emergency stop during the test was quite enough for anyone!
Did I pass? Yes, I did, but I would be absolutely horrified if any young person in this day and age compacted their first hands-on experience and successful test into one working week which, in my case, was dictated by the fact that I only had a short period of leave available between two seagoing appointments.
So HF, in summary, you highlight two very interesting points on which it certainly is worth doing some forward planning on the lines suggested, and endorsed by so many contributors. As our lawyer friends say "Circumstances alter cases" and one should only teach, or give driving experience to one's learner family member, if both of you are completely happy with the ground rules, and properly insured - in advance! - including those using company cars checking that their insurance cover allows learners to drive. No harm either in showing the young master what the forum has to say, with his best interests - and yours! - in mind and - who knows? - we may end up with a new youngest member.
Incidentally, depending on your research, your circumstances, and the advice of the resident experts, you may find that there is surprisingly little difference between comprehensive and third party insurance premiums.
Keep us posted.
Jack
PS I trust that Mothering Sunday was duly remembered ....
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I would be absolutely horrified if any young person in this day >> and age compacted their first hands-on experience and successful >> test into one working week
Around us this is quite a popular route to learning, a number of my sons' friends have done this over the last few years. IMO it only really qualifies them to pass a test and puts them at severe risk as they build up initial experience on their own rather than with mum or dad in the passenger seat during the learning period.
PS I do echo what Cub Leader said earlier on in the thread, going for practice with big brother as the qualified driver is a no no however desperate they both are to do it.
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I have three sons and have just put my youngest through the test. With the oldest two we paid for lessons and took them out to practice what they had learnt. Lessons were once a week and practice sessions were after work every day. With the youngest one he didn't want to do lessons but we made him take some to start with. Then we took him out at least once every day.
Between half an hour and an hour is about as much as you should take them out for. Get hold of all the details about what is tested and practice every manouvre many times. When he is starting to get the hang of things increase the difficulty. If he makes a mistake don't tell him straight off while he is still driving. Get him to pull over somewhere and then ask him to talk about it. He will probably have realised his error and may have already drawn the right conclusions. You can then discuss it with him.
You could also see if he wants to get a summer holiday job to help pay for driving expenses and to contribute a bit to his keep. I was brought up myself in a single parent family and every penny counted. I was proud to be independent as soon as possible and he may well feel the same way.
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Thank you all so much for all the new replies!
There's so much good advice here, I really am grateful. I won't waffle (don't faint, Dave!) but I will just say that I'm going to go with the general consensus of at least getting some proper formal lessons in before I or any friend takes my lad out for practice.
Coincidentally my son actually started a Saturday job this past weekend, and I have discussed this thread with him. At the moment, he feels that he wants to enjoy his new-found and hard-earned wages, which, even if not the wisest thing, is fine by me, since he now understands that I am not suddenly going to have a spare £1500 or whatever it is by the end of the year. He knows he has to save, and at least make some kind of a contribution. We'll work something out, we always do, but in the meantime this thread has given me loads of helpful hints and advice - and getting a copy of the Highway Code now is a great idea.
Just want to say special thanks to Union Jack for being so kind and thoughtful to me - it's so much appreciated. :)
HF
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My father's an instructor and his best piece of advice is to save £1,000+ in a 'driving lessons' account before you start lessons. That way the money will be there and you will be in a position to have two lessons a week (dad's pupils who have two lessons a week generally pass with fewer lessons). It also means you aren't cancelling because you can't afford it.
As for teaching him yourself - no probs, but taking the test in any car is becoming more difficult.
A number of cars are deemed unsuitable for testing (new Tigra and Mini convertible to name two) and recently an examiner refused to undertake a test in an A class because it had the auto locking set to lock when the car moved (health and safety issue) - only the dealer can turn it off so the test was cancelled.
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If you google - driving test - a dsa link will come up where you can practise the theory test. When looking for instructors on google we also found some larger driving school websites give really good info on everything from choosing an instructor to exactly what is tested, and how, in the test. Some schools also give you a plan of lessons and tick off as you achieve different 'tasks' to a pass level of competence. This also allows the wallet wielder to assess value for money and expectations when practise driving.
I would agree with Davey about two lessons a week (or more) as you build more quickly on each lesson. Some people like two hour lessons but one of my children found one hour was enough - the second hour was wasted as learner was too tired.
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RF Aw gee shucks! I'm blushing ....
Jack
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"RF Aw gee shucks! I'm blushing ...."
HF I do beg your pardon - now I'm blushing even more!
PS Absolutely no input required from RF aka TVM aka Algernon ....
Jack
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HF - one thing to bear in mind if you do end up putting your son on your insurance, check out any additional excess as well as the increase in premium. From memory my extra excess is about 500 quid under these circumstances; maybe other policies are better in this respect.
apologies if this has already been mentioned in the thread but I couldn't see any references to it.
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