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I don't think it is a turbo failure. A guy at work had one of these as a company car (the 125hp version). The turbo failed (disintigrated actually)and got ingested, damaging some of the pistons, conrods and valves. SAAB eventually put a new engine in, but only after weeks of discussions about how much new engine to supply. They insisted that the dealler re-use as much of the engine auxliaries - eg fuel pump etc. as possible which dealer refused to do because of the labour time.
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Thanks for the helpful comments to date! Amazingly my next door neighbour has the same symptoms on his Laguna and it has already been diagnosed as a small hole in the inter-cooler pipework. Thanks for the thoughts that it might not be the turbo itself, that is good news! There is not enough pressure so it is either being dumped thru the wastegate or lost in the intercooler (I hope). The garage isn't marvellous but there isn't much choice! I'll let you know what they think when I ring them in the morning re lack of road test etc!
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Wastegate: variable vane turbos don't have one, so beware being charged for this "replacement" if yours is not so equipped:) Also this earlier thread www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/threads.htm?f=4&pg=122
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It will be the MAF sensor - I know for a fact that there is a SAAB TSB out for this very symptom/fault.
Cleaning the sensor with a special alcohol based spray is the cure - but it doesn't always work.
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Turbo update. The car was test driven this morning and declared to be running properly. They said that it had been test driven after the service but the invoice didn't have any of the boxes relating to the results of the test ticked. When the car was collected, after servicing, the Service Manager said it didn't need new discs and pads (front) and the technician who had done the service said that it did need them. One wonders where to go to get a good service done! The car is going into the workshop later in the week for an 'investigation' and I'll post the outcome. Both people who drive the car regularly reckon that it is well down on power so we'll see if any fault is found. Watch this space!
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What a saga! The car was taken in for "investigation" today and delivered back with the turbo diagnosed as failed but "It is OK to keep driving it!" That may be true but it makes one wonder how a dealer can give the car a full service and maybe a road test or maybe not, and having been told that it was not running properly, manage to sign it off as fully functional. It was then road tested again, no fault found, and then the turbo was found to be failed. Apart from what appears to be a degree of incompotence on the part of the garage may I have comments on our chances on the chance of getting a goodwill payment on a failed turbo on a 50K mile 5 years old car with a full SAAB main dealer service history? How much might this cost? The car was delivered back without any comment on cost of repair, keys handed over and goodbye! Amazing!
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I think they're telling you they would like some easy money. 1. Fit a new MAF.
2. Polish your turbo exterior. 3. Tell you you now have a new turbo and charge accordingly 4. Pocket the difference.
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Time to start using another dealer, methinks...
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If it needs a turbo, fit a BTN recon unit. You'll have no problems.
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My C5 spent 9 days in the dealers in January - same symptoms. At first, they said it wasn't the turbo, so they spent the next week tearing off pipes, exhaust etc without success. Eventually, they came back rather sheepishly and said it was indeed the turbo seized. It's a variable geometry one and apparently part of it was spinning freely and the rest was seized. New turbo fitted (under warranty!) and everything has been fine since.They HAD looked into one side of it initially and it seemed fine - but it took a complete strip down to see the seizure.
I've never seen one of these variable geometry turbos in the flesh. Does anyone know if they have two impellers or variable pitch vanes on a single impeller????
This could well be your problem, though.
Graeme
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Thanks Graeme. Having checked the price of replacement turbos (shock + horror) there is a £200 difference between pre 2001 and post 2001 so I guess this may be when GM introduced a variable pitch vane on the 2.2 turbo. Ours is 2 years out of warranty and an exchange one, not thru Saab, is £640.
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Armitage Shanks: though you seem to be intent on replacing the turbo, without getting someone competent to go through the preliminaries!!!, you could have a look at section e of the link:tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-8.html
For an explanation of what to do in assessing non-variable turbos and the operating schematics, you might look at this: www.turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm#turbotrou...g . Important because it makes the point (sorry if its already obvious) that replacing the turbo without knowing why, risks the replacement failing because an underlying cause has not been identified.
Hope this helps.
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Nortones, thank you very much for that valuable info. I think the car will be going to another dealer for a 2nd opinion. SAAB UK Technical gave me a bit of waffle about fault codes not showing up if there was a poor electrical connection and didn't seem to sure if a 1999 SAAB even had the capability of being computer diagnosed and giving fault codes! I understand your comments re don't replace it if it isn't failed and/or if you don't know why it did fail. The only good news is that the SAAB quoted price for a new turbo, fitted, is less the than the price of a reputably supplied re-con one just delivered and with a £150 extra deposit in the case the failed one can't be rebuilt.
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Thanks for all the help and comments. The situation is now resolved. The alternatives were:
a. Turbo from a breaker, one month warranty £150.
b. Recon turbo with a 1 year warranty, £640 delivered.
c. SAAB part fitted with 1 year warranty by the garage that haven't been too marvellous so far, £610.
d. SAAB part with a 1 year warranty, fitted by another SAAB dealer, £1000+.
With some doubts, but encouraged by the warranty, my partner is going for "c" and hoping for the best plus, transferring her business to one of other 2 SAAB dealers in the area, for any future work.
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£610 for a genuine SAAB recon turbo, fitted, sounds too cheap. Either they are fitting for free or there is something else coming into play. I would check that its a genuine SAAB recon and not one from another 'source' or one they have 'recon'd' themselves!
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I will try and find out what my freind says. I remember him having the same car and similar problem, and he may have the actual fix to the problem. Personally, turbo failure seems to be a wrong diagnosis since the car is way too new. The dash board would indicate a failure with certain lights if it was the case; but it may be true.
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Greg, I'd be very grateful for any information that might make the car work properly, rather than just blindly replacing the most expensive component in the fuel system, as was helpfully pointed out earlier in the thread. It is booked in for Thursday 29th so any info before that would be most welcome. Car is 5 yrs old and 45K miles and NOT driven hard and not in situations where turbo cooling after a motorway run would be relevant. Its last 5 miles of driving on any journey are done in a 30 limit!
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Early last year an aquaintance of mine bought one of these cars from a car supermarket. I think it was a late '98 model and had about 60k on it.
About a month after purchasing it the turbo went. The car supermarket were very good about getting it repaired and paid for a SAAB dealer to do it - I have no idea of the cost, but can't have been cheap. Apparantly when he spoke to the mechanic there, he was told that 'either the turbo goes or the gearbox goes'.
Make of that what you will.
He's still got the car and seems happy with it - not heard of any more problems.
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According to my freind, his SAAB had an air mass meter failure which was replaced and ran o.k. A mechanic confirmed that this may be the correct diagnosis.
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The car mechanics help page e-mailed me today with their diagnosis. It goes as follows:
From what you say about the Saab, it would appear that the turbo is either not working or not working as it should. This doesn't mean that the turbo itself is defective with consequent heavy repair bills, it's far more likely that there is a fault with the turbo wastegate which should be relatively easy (and relatively cheap) to sort out. Obviously from here, I can't say exactly what is wrong but it might well be a sticking valve (in the wastegate) and can be checked out using a turbo boost gauge. Perhaps your best bet would be to take the car to a local diesel agency - look in the Yellow Pages under the Garage Services heading.
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Had same problem - no power although car ran ok (ish) I thought turbo. Diagnosed as Air Mass Meter (electronic checks did not show any fault), made huge difference. The garage phoned on diagnosis to say they would fit, let me try and invoice if I was happy.
Same Garage sorted and brokered with Saab GB and Saab Safeguard when engine seized at 60k with no apparent reason as to why.
A happy Turners Hill customer
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The car is now running as it should but without any real cause being identified. The garage were kind enough to say that they had only seen 3 SAAB diesels in 3 years and they did their best. They took the car in, having said themselves that the turbo had failed, but when they took everything to pieces they found that it had not. However, all the disassembly and reassembly has cured the problem and with no charge so full marks to them. I think the time may have come to move this 5 year ols car on and try something newer. Many thanks to all who posted on this thread, the cure may well have been the air flow sensor or the wastegate and the trouble rectified by the general work done on the turbo system.
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That was very good of them. Obviously not a big failure rate with the TiD. And you've given them a practical into the bargain!
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I think the time may have come to move this 5 year ols car on and try something newer. Many thanks to all who posted on this thread, the cure may well have been the air flow sensor or the wastegate and the trouble rectified by the general work done on the turbo system.
If the one of the most expensive systems on the car has just been given a free overhaul, surely now is the time to keep it?
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Well I hear what you say but the car isn't worth much more than £7,000, the local dealer is willing but not very able and now concentrates on another make of car. It is 2 years out of warranty and running well with a FMDSH so this is the time for hands in pockets and a p/ex perhaps. Part are expensive and almost any job that comes due now in going to cost 10% of what the car is worth. Anyway, it isn't my car - my lady will have to decide!
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Anyway, it isn't my car - my lady will have to decide!
Ah, wise words......
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