Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Decided to move this issue from technical to legal due to falling into the consumer act 2015.

To cut a long story short, the pre reg Clio that I bought has been loosing coolant since I took delivery of the car in march, my local Renault service department was unable to find the fault and I was sent away saying no fault found,

Since then I have contacted Renault customer care and made a complaint and recorded the water loss over a 5 day period by taking photos and recording the mileage.

I booked the car back into the garage telling them that the car was still loosing coolant and I have now found out that the coolant has been getting into the engine via the cyilindar head and it's now been sent to France to find the fault.

Due to me only having the car for more than 30 days and under 6 months, I am able to use the consumer act 2015 and reject the car for a full refund since Renault have had there one change to repair the car. In the consumer act it states the following, If it goes wrong within the first 30 days of ownership, you can simply reject it out of hand for a full refund. If a fault develops after those 30 days but within the first six months, the dealer gets one chance to fix it. If they fail to do this, you’re entitled to a full refund, or a partial refund after the use you’ve had of the car has been taken into account."

I have spoken to Renault customer care and they have told me that if I reject the car, Renault would only give me a partial refund and I could loose 20%. I believe that if the car was built with a defective engine, then the car was not fit for purpose and a full refund would be due.

Renault want me to go down the repair route with a offer of money as a good will gesture and they want me to name my price and saying rejecting the car would take a long time. I have since told them that I am happy to accept a pre reg car and do a exchange and that I am not interested in a repair or a new engine since it may cause issues in the future, I am waiting to get word back, but I would like to ask your thoughts on my rights on a full refund or are they in their rights to offer a partial refund. Regards compensation, Renault asked me to come up with a figure that I would be happy with and I had to think about it over the weekend. I don't know how much would be a realistic figure, but I would rather just exchange my car if they allow me to.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - FP

"'...a partial refund after the use you’ve had of the car has been taken into account.'"

'I have spoken to Renault customer care and they have told me that if I reject the car, Renault would only give me a partial refund and I could loose 20%. I believe that if the car was built with a defective engine, then the car was not fit for purpose and a full refund would be due.'

From your own words (and I'm not an expert on the legislation concerned) it seems the supplier can deduct an amount for use of the car. It seems to me you're going to have a problem establishing otherwise, as you have presumably covered some miles. (How many, as a matter of interest?) As I see it, you might get a smaller deduction after haggling, but that's all.

If you believe otherwise, I think you will need a specialist lawyer.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Thank you for your reply, the car had only covered less than 2000 miles when I first reported the issue and it's still under 3000 miles at the moment, maybe 2800, the reason why I feel that I should get a refund, is due to the fact the car was loosing coolant when I first bought the car. I have a full write up in the technical forum

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - RT

You've had 3,000 (ish) miles use out of the car - it's unreasonable to expect FULL refund and get those 3,000 miles for nothing.

Work out the difference in price of a car your age and one a year older - taking 3,000 / 12,000 miles and offer to accept a deduction of 25% of that difference.

If you're determined to hold out for FULL refund, you need to pay for legal advice.

Edited by RT on 31/07/2017 at 20:14

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

My reply to that would be, if proved that the car was built with a fault in the cylinder head and that coolant had been entering the engine, then the car was not fit for purpose and when I reported the fault, I was told only to travel on short journey's, when I reported the fault and the RAC checked for leaks, I Understand that I have used the car for 4 months and covered 2800 but the car when sold to me was not what was described since it had a fault and not fit for purpose. I do feel that exchanging for another pre reg car is the best way forward for both parties since they won't be giving me the full amount and will be able to make money on the sale of my car and I get the a like for like car and saves going down the legal route

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - FP

It might be argued you should have rejected the car as soon as you were aware it was leaking coolant, without involving any other party.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - elekie&a/c doctor
My view is the car is a lemon and has been faulty the day it left the factory.Go for full rejection and a complete refund of your purchase price.Dealer and Renault are trying it on.Stick to your guns.
Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - RT
My view is the car is a lemon and has been faulty the day it left the factory.Go for full rejection and a complete refund of your purchase price.Dealer and Renault are trying it on.Stick to your guns.

The UK doesn't have "Lemon" laws - and neither do many states within the USA.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

It might be argued you should have rejected the car as soon as you were aware it was leaking coolant, without involving any other party.

At the time I thought it was a leak on a hose.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - SLO76
If it gets a new engine then the car could be devalued substantially if the chassis and engine numbers don't match (unlikely anyone would notice but it's possible) but I believe many manufacturers plate any new factory replacement engine with the old engines number these days.

But the best option in my opinion would be to take the repair and ask for £1,000 for the loss of your car, loss of confidence and likely added depreciation plus I'd expect at least a three year warranty on that engine whether new or repaired. You don't get if you don't ask.

Then run the car as you would have and sell/trade it in when done. You'll be financially better off, assuming they go as far as I suggest but then it would cost them much more to give you a full refund. If they only offer a token gesture then I'd fight for a refund minus 5-10% for your usage. Play hardball and they'll up any origional offer.
Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - RobJP

You could always reject the car, accept the deduction 'under protest', and then sue in Small Claims for a portion of the deducted sum.

Oh, you keep on talking about 'Renault say there will be a 20% deduction', etc. Your legal contract is most likely nothing to do with Renault, but is with the dealership that you purchased the car from. You need to negotiate with them - and if need be, take them to court. Nobody else.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Renault Customer care have told me it's down to the dealer to accept the car for a full refund And I have written to the dealer explaining everything and explaining conversations with Renault customer care and why I am rejecting the car, plus that it was explained during hand over of the car that I was told, if I had any issues with the car, I could go to my local Renault garage and that's the reason why I have not informed the dealership until now. I have asked the general manager to contact Renault customer care so they can work together to work out a deal for me.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - RT

Renault Customer care have told me it's down to the dealer to accept the car for a full refund And I have written to the dealer explaining everything and explaining conversations with Renault customer care and why I am rejecting the car, plus that it was explained during hand over of the car that I was told, if I had any issues with the car, I could go to my local Renault garage and that's the reason why I have not informed the dealership until now. I have asked the general manager to contact Renault customer care so they can work together to work out a deal for me.

As RobJP says, your ONLY legal redress is against the selling dealer - expect them to involve Renault but you need to focus on the selling dealer.

Edited by RT on 31/07/2017 at 22:38

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

As RobJP says, your ONLY legal redress is against the selling dealer - expect them to involve Renault but you need to focus on the selling dealer

Thank you for that advice, I have not heard back from either the dealership of Renault UK, so cant do anything more until they make contact, but least both parties will be talking to each other and at the end of the day, I cant see the dealer been out of pocket over this since he will be able to claim of renault


Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - Miniman777

Personally, I'd forget Renault customer service as they are likely to be on the side of the dealer not the customer, so a waste of space. Work out the deal you want, less a reasonable deduction for wear & tear, and stick to it. HJ has quoted past figures, but asking you to take a 20% drop for a car you've not had long is a mickey take. Less than 3k miles, say 25p per mile, that's a reduction of £750 on purchase price, for example.

None of this we'll post a cheque rubbish when you agree, BACS transfer immediately.

Formally reject the car, in writing, signed for post, keeping copy and postal receipts. Return the car, key and dpcumentation and haggle.

Plus I wouldn't even give them the pleasure of a part ex as they are clearly hoping you will go away - and you may end up with another pile of rubbish. You may have to make yourself unpopular, badger daily and dont be fobbed off. Use the CR rights and if necessary, speak to Trading Standards.

I'm sure that parking the car over their entrance with A4 posters on the side, and an A-board on the roof telling the world what a pile or junk you've bought might get the attention of the dealer - and indeed the local press with an appropriate advance phone call. They wont want adverse publicity.

Your difficulty is that if you need a car and they know it, they will drag it out thinking you may capitulate after a week or so, but tell them you have another car even if you dont.

Edited by Miniman777 on 31/07/2017 at 23:20

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Just had a email from the dealership who says he is sorry for my problems, he is reviewing the issue and will get back to me.

regards having a car, To be honest, we dont need a car, Its just used for short journeys and we have a bus stop outside of our house taking us to the main towns, So i am in no rush to sort this issue out.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - Bromptonaut

If, as you should, you want to reject the car time is running. The dealer and Renaukt UK know this so it's in their interest to procrastinate.

Speak to trading standards or the Citizens Advice consumer helpline 03454 04 05 06

Edited by Bromptonaut on 01/08/2017 at 12:35

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - RobJP

Stop messing about. Reject the car - drop it off, all keys, all documents. Then get the financial side sorted out.

By continuing to use it, you weaken your case every day that goes by.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - pd

If you have had the car over 30 days the seller is entitled to make a deduction. This is, in fact, the one and only aspect of consumer legislation which is specifically written with regard to cars. What the deduction is and how it is calculated is, needless to say, not defined anywhere so how the hell you judge it no one knows.

What is clear is they can make a deuction, whether it is £1 or £2000 is down to negotiation really.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Update.

Renault UK and the selling Dealer have come back to me saying that they wont allow me to reject the car and if i was to do so, I would need to go down the legal route and they are only prepered to repair the car and offer a good will guesture and then if i want, I could trade my car in for another car, but i would loose around £2000 on the car that i have now, I told Renault that if i was to seek a good will gusture, then it would need to be £2000 due to the fact that they sold me a car not fit for purpose, Renault told me no chance of that happening.

Renault have advised me to go to the motoring ombudsman for advice.

Regarding Taking the car back and dumping the car outside of the dealership, That would create problems for myself, Unless the V5 is transfered and signed for by the dealer, i am the legal owner of the car and i could face fines if illegally parked, plus at the moment my car is parked up at a local dealership minus part of the engine since the cylindar head is in france getting checked.

I mentioned my consumer rights of 2015 and the fact that they had there one change to repair the car, But renault didn't seem bothered and just said that i would need to go down the legal route.

The car is not expecting to be repaired for another 2 weeks, So will think it over for my next move and also have a face to face chat with trading standards.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - SLO76
Litigation is a nightmare which can end in a costly mess for you. Big firms like this have teams of lawyers to defend actions and know every trick in the book.

I don't like bullies but in this case I'd take the repair and ask for a more reasonable compensation pay out with a figure of £1k to start negotiations. You'll probably get half that but you will also get the car back and fully functional. Be firm but fair and always pleasant and you'll find a compromise.

I'd offload the car as soon as the warranty on the engine expires too.

Out of curiosity, is it the 0.9 tce engine?

Edited by SLO76 on 03/08/2017 at 15:02

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - RobJP

You keep on talking about Renault UK - they have absolutely nothing to do with the case. You do not have any legal contract with them. They have absolutely zero legal liability to you. They are irrelevant. You legal contract is with the dealership you bought the car from. They are the people you need to be dealing with.

Rather than Trading standards, I would suggest going to motorcodes.co.uk - they are the ombudsman.

First, you need to get - in writing - the dealer's final response, that they are refusing your rejection of the vehicle. Make it very clear to them that you are requesting this as you need it before you take the case to the ombudsman. They may well revise their decision at this point, or be considerably more flexible as to numbers.

However, to expect to have had the use of a car for several months for free is also not 'reasonable' on your part, even if the car has been an unreliable piece of junk. You will need to move on that too. I'd suggest being willing to meet in the middle - a £1,000 deduction. If you were pro-active, making this offer at the same time as requesting the letter of deadlock, then the Ombudsman would probably be more willing to agree with you - you have shown reasonableness, whereas the garage have not.

If they fail to provide you with this letter, or refuse to negotiate further, go to www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers/make-a-complai...t. Do note that you'd have to give the dealer a reasonable amount of time to provide you with the letter - the Code does say that the business must be allowed 8 weeks to sort out your complaint, so allowing them a further 2-3 weeks would not be unreasonable.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Out of curiosity, is it the 0.9 tce engine? Its a 1.5 diesel Nav

Thank you for your reply Robjp

Most likey i have gone about this the wrong way involving renault and now Renault are now sorting this out for both parties.

I have asked Renault for there reponce in writing, But i will follow this up with a letter to the dealership and ask for a letter of a final reponce and take it from there.

The Consumer act 2015 has left the holes in the agreement regards rejecting the car and dealerships are using this to their advantage, Mainly deducting money for depreciation.

I have now contacted Trading standards and they have opened a case for me but waiting to hear back with a written letter from Renault and Yes, I will get one from the dealer.

Regards Forums, I am just a little paranoid that renault will be reading my postings ;-(

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - SLO76
Quite surprised to hear it's the 1.5 dci, they're generally quite robust with plenty of Mk II Clio commuters running around with 150k and upwards. You've been unlucky.

Hope you get a positive result.
Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - pd

There is no hole on the CRA regarding deductions. It is the one and only thing which is actually clear reagrding cars and the only caluse in the entire thing speficially in there for cars.

Prior to 30 days the seller cannot make a deduction, After this they are entitled to. You will not get a full refund and are not entitled to a full refund under the CRA.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - RT

There is no hole on the CRA regarding deductions. It is the one and only thing which is actually clear reagrding cars and the only caluse in the entire thing speficially in there for cars.

Prior to 30 days the seller cannot make a deduction, After this they are entitled to. You will not get a full refund and are not entitled to a full refund under the CRA.

No reasonable person would object to a reasonable deduction for use already had.

Offering to accept a lower deduction than that originally offered is merely negotiation - demanding zero deduction is confrontation that will inevitably be lost.

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Just to update, Renault customer care has been trying to bull S@@t me telling lies and not replying to emails,last week they were basically telling me that i had to take the car back once repaired and they had the Dealership on side, but the Dealership is now saying that they want to help me with a car replacement and Renault customer care giving me a good will guester towards the car, but Renault customer care wont say how much they will contrubute to me, So the dealer is going to find out for me and it will be a fixed price no matter what car i go for i.e. if the car is £11000 or 12000, So the cheaper the pre Reg car that they offer me the less money that i need to contribute , At the moment the dealership van offer me 2 cars, one at £11000 which was registered on the 31st Jan 2017 and has 10 miles on the clock and a 17 plate under the old road tax rules for £11490 with 7 miles on the clock,

I paid £11500 for the car that i bought in March which was registered on the 31st Jan 2017.

I have asked the question on how much per mile that deduct on a rejected car, one poster on this thread has quoted 25p a mile, But nither the Dealership or Renault can tell me.

I understand that the fault on the car was the egr on the cylinder head was leaking and water getting into the engine and the car will be ready next week with Renault telling me to pick up the car on the understanding that i am still rejecting the car, But this needs to be in writing before collecting the car.

Going forward, We are suppose to be having a chat on the exchange car on Friday, But i could do with knowing what pence per mile on a rejected car i should be looking at

Renault Clio - Consumer act 2015, refund due to fault - malct

Final update , Regards the Consumer rights 2015 on cars bought less than 6 months old, The Garage has one attempt to repair the car once the fault is found and not while seeking the fault, So regards rejection, I had no chance.

Regards changing cars for a like for like, They offered me £8500 for my car which was raised to £8750 by the dealership against a 66 plate and Renault Customer car offered a voucher to be used within 12 month of £750 towards a new car, I told them that i would rather be ran over by a bus than to accept their offer, So it came down to a service package that's worth to the customer £450 but not much to renault covering 3 years starting from the first service next march plus a useless £50 voucher to spend of renault products with no movment to haggle since its a gusture of goodwill and not compensation.

The fault was the EGR allowing water to leak into the engine.

At the end of the day, If anything goes wrong with the engine within the life time of the 4 year warrany, I will be covered. So plan will be to keep the car for 3 or 4 years and then god willing, change manufactuers, Maybe by then electric cars will be cheap enough to buy and to run, Maybe even have Mr Google driving me, Who knows what the next 4 years will bring,

Regards the car, its due to be completed today and will pick the car up tomorrow, Its taken a month to fix, just pleased that i was not footing the bill.

Lookers contacted me regards the loan car saying that i was to pay £3 a day for insurance, Told them that i knew nothing about this and they decided not to charge me. I guess they can recover the cost by charging for a extra 2 hours of labour on the warranty.

just hoping the car gets a full valet and it looks like new when i pick it up.

 

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