Economic Life expectancy of a car - cascas

I remember a time when if a car had 100,000 miles on the clock it was considered to be at the end of its life. Mechanic friend reckons that this doesnt mean anything with modern engines and oils, and that age is more relevant than miles.

The last 3 cars I have owned have all gone to about about 12 years (with out 90k miles on the clock) before the repair started, and you start to question about replacing the car rather than keep paying out.

What are others experience of this. At what point (on average) do you find the it no longer economic to keep a car.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - unthrottled

It depends on your ability (and willingness) to carry out DIY maintainance. If you have easy access to a scrappy and a motor factors, popular models can be kept running economically almost indefinitely. My current car is 15 years old and there isn't a compelling reason to change. Engines and bodywork usually age fairly well. Suspensions less so. Working underneath an old car is pretty tedious tbh.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - gordonbennet

A lot depends on complication and maybe how 'industrial' (read simple durable) the design was in the first place, then there's good servicing and maintenance which will prolong life by a large margin.

Tied in with and good mainenance is paying attention to keeping rot at bay, most cars are still prone to serious underbody rot, where we all knew someone who could keep welding our cars up for a fair price those handy chaps have vanished, so those cars with few exceptions that are neglected will not see much past 10 or 15 years.

Cars with more electronics than you can shake a stick at, ie made in the last 5 years, i doubt will see much past 10 years in most mass produced cases and many will be off to the scrappy before that IMO, rendered far too expensive to repair whilst mechanically and bodily still sound..read here and elsewhere the desperate requests for cures from people running 307's and such things, its always in the electrics.

Our old Volvo 940td estate made in 93 still soldiers on, stupidly we sold it to my sister some years ago and kicked ourselves ever since, it refuses to rust break down or wear out, has the same VW 6 cyl van engine as fitted from new which still pulls like a train, as far as i'm aware it has no ecu as such, i'm not sure quite how long it can go on, seemingly for ever....she even jump starts her Volvo artic with it when the computers and trailer eqpt run the batteries flat over Christmas break if she forgets to turn it off at the mains...they really don't make 'em like that any more, if they did i'd buy one tomorrow.

Edited by gordonbennet on 10/09/2012 at 14:22

Economic Life expectancy of a car - madf

Cars with more electronics than you can shake a stick at, ie made in the last 5 years, i doubt will see much past 10 years in most mass produced cases and many will be off to the scrappy before that IMO, rendered far too expensive to repair whilst mechanically and bodily still sound..read here and elsewhere the desperate requests for cures from people running 307's and such things, its always in the electrics.

I agree if yoiu buy a PSA or Renault car as the electrics are designed with poor components and illogical sitings (but then AUDI place ECUs on the floor - and when water evemtually enters via pollen filter seals .. bang)... but most Japanese cars have lots of electrical bits na dhave had for the past 20 years and apart from failing pixels on displays (capacitors) they are pretty reliable.

VAG are pretty losuy at long lasting electrics: wiring looms fail, MB are pretty bad but BMW appear not bad.

Electrics are not an issue and fault finding is usually easy with a logically laid out and designed system... There are 20 year Lexus LS400 running with 200k miles plus and evertything works as it should.. Mind you it was not cheap. Far better than an Audi A8 which is a minefield electrically and cost as much...

Edited by madf on 10/09/2012 at 14:56

Economic Life expectancy of a car - gordonbennet

Agreed Madf, and thats why i said with exceptions, or words to that effect, in a couple of places.

Just round the corner from us lives a Toyota Starlet, it look brand new and must be 15 years old if its a day, can barely hear the engine running when it purrs quietly away.

Japanese cars of that era maybe the best cars ever made?, at least from a sensible easily maintained durable design perspective.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - Bobbin Threadbare

Just round the corner from us lives a Toyota Starlet, it look brand new and must be 15 years old if its a day, can barely hear the engine running when it purrs quietly away.

Japanese cars of that era maybe the best cars ever made?, at least from a sensible easily maintained durable design perspective.

Agreed. I see lots of early/mid-90s Corollas still knocking about, often in very good nick, even the red painted ones.. There must be something pretty good about them. Also late 1990s Golfs; they seem to keep going and going.

I guess it depends where you consider the lack of economy; you could run an old banger nice and cheaply. So far in my admittedly short driving career I'm changing every 2 years based on either a desire for greater power or boredom! Then again, I've been doing high mileage so running up to the 100k mark doesn't take very long.

Edited by Bobbin Threadbare on 10/09/2012 at 18:09

Economic Life expectancy of a car - unthrottled

My early 90s corolla rotted away...

How's your first term as a 'proper' teacher going?

Economic Life expectancy of a car - Bobbin Threadbare

My early 90s corolla rotted away...

How's your first term as a 'proper' teacher going?

Good thank you. Nice small secondary school. Tiring job but it's definitely not boring...!

Economic Life expectancy of a car - unthrottled

I agree if yoiu buy a PSA or Renault car as the electrics are designed with poor components and illogical sitings

There are loads of ageing PSA and Renault cars (especially Clios and Pug 106s) still chugging along. The electrics on my Renault are all original and still work-including HT leads and coil packs. Most of the electrics under the bonnet are German (Bosch, Siemans, Pierberg etc.) so lazy tropes about electrics designed by a walnut-faced hobby farmer with a string of onions round his neck are total nonsense.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - madf

I agree if yoiu buy a PSA or Renault car as the electrics are designed with poor components and illogical sitings

There are loads of ageing PSA and Renault cars (especially Clios and Pug 106s) still chugging along. The electrics on my Renault are all original and still work-including HT leads and coil packs. Most of the electrics under the bonnet are German (Bosch, Siemans, Pierberg etc.) so lazy tropes about electrics designed by a walnut-faced hobby farmer with a string of onions round his neck are total nonsense.

Renault Scenic and Megane prove otherwise.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - unthrottled

I concede that electrical reliability plummeted when Renault switched to el cheapo electrical suppliers like Sagem. But the earlier ones are solid.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - BrianW

Our 2002 Renault Megane Scenic has had two failed coils in less than 50k miles.

I am not impressed !

Economic Life expectancy of a car - madf

Our 2002 Renault Megane Scenic has had two failed coils in less than 50k miles.

I am not impressed !

I am not surprised.It's a Renault.

(not jocular, serious)

Economic Life expectancy of a car - corax

VAG are pretty losuy at long lasting electrics: wiring looms fail, MB are pretty bad but BMW appear not bad.

True, I only had a brake switch go in six years. Also the climate control unit started to play up - it would lose the display, or the aircon would be erratic. A well known fault - I posted it to a guy who replaced a failing capacitor and posted it back to me. For 35 quid.

The thing about BMW's is that there is a lot of expertise surrounding them due to their popularity, they are easy to work on (the older models anyway), and cheap parts are plentiful. They last a long time if looked after, so they make a good buy as an older machine.

I find the image problem with them tends to fade when they are old. It's the new ones that can't get out of side turnings :)

I can't really justify it as it's too big but a 528i or something with a nicely run in 100k on the clock would be nice.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - madf


What are others experience of this. At what point (on average) do you find the it no longer economic to keep a car.

We kept a 106 for 17 years. The HG was going but we ignored that as the costs of repair (a diesel) of £350 ish was not viable. If it had not been written of in an RTA would still be running it. Springs were tired and it really needed new front ones due to engine weight.. a common issue in some old diesels.with fwd. Other than that it was mechanically perfect and bodily with minimal rust.

My son has an 11 year old yaris with 115K miles. Value is c900 ish. As long as repairs are less, it's worth repairing as it is rust free (altho battered) aconomical c 50mpg and nice to drive. Lots of good s/h spares so even an engine is c £350... and diyable. Very little goes wrong apart from abuse from prior owners - it was cheap to buy for that reason..

BUT there are lots - like hundreds of low mileage 8 to 10 year old cars - mainly petrol - selling with low miles.. and fulls service history and few owners for £2-£3k so a canny buyer can get very good cheap replacements.. So the economics of repair are even less attractive if anything goes wrong.

Look on Autotrader Honda Civic under £3k under 60k miles...as an example...

tinyurl.com/cd4n53t

Edited by madf on 10/09/2012 at 14:02

Economic Life expectancy of a car - craig-pd130

Watching the current BBC drama, 'Good Cop' on Thursday nights, the main character drives a G-reg (1989 / 90) Audi Coupe, the jellymould one.

I haven't seen one for a while, I did wonder if it was a sly nod to DCI Gene Hunt having a Quattro in Ashes to Ashes ...

Economic Life expectancy of a car - Bromptonaut

Depends on what car is worth to owner.

Ran a 91/H1.9TGD BX estate from April 1993 to April 2005 About 150k by then & would have cost about £700 to get it through MoT. Would have paid that for a further year or two's probably trouble free second car. However advice was more trouble coming down road including rear su bearings and beginnings of tin-worm.

Currently running an X-reg HDi 110 Xantia on 150k. Spent similar sum to above for MoT this year. Still nice to drive with all electrics and aircon working as new. Put about 10k a year on it. Alternative was to spend 3-4k on a 6+ yo C5 or possibly HDi Berlingo.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - Mike H

Never yet disposed of a car due to age-related issues. My current car, a Sab 9-5 Aero estate auto, costs peanuts to run (fuel excepted) and never sees a garage except at MOT time, but that's down to a certain amount of mechanical expertise on my part. 8 years old and with 182,000 under it's belt it's still going strong on all its major mechanical components including turbo, and all the factory-fit electrics (windows, heated and cooled seats, folding mirrors etc) still work. No rust, no seat sag (well, at least not with the car ;-)).

Economic Life expectancy of a car - bear807
Japanese car just seems to be more reliable even if not taken care well, in my area there is a first generation civic probably 30 something years ago
Economic Life expectancy of a car - Bobbin Threadbare

I see a lot of old Toyota Celicas Mk IV - VIs - Mr Bobbin's Mk VII is 9 years old this year and it's still brilliant.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - Falkirk Bairn

My 14 yr old Mazda Xedos 6 was doubled in value in the last few weeks - RFL renewed and today 50 litres of super unleaded.

I have had it 13+ yrs and it runs as good as new apart from a few suspension creaks..........everything works .howeve,r it is only 1 x major fault before in goes into the bin.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - barney100
My two cars have notched up 260,000 between them. Volvo and CLK. I think with talc and a bit of luck cars can go on a long time. Volvo used to advertise 19 odd years and the Merc owners club has hundreds of great oldies.
Economic Life expectancy of a car - Bobbin Threadbare

What do you use the talc for?

Economic Life expectancy of a car - barney100
Cheaper tha petrol.
Economic Life expectancy of a car - John F
Cheaper tha petrol.

I guessed it superseded sawdust for adding to the whining differential

Economic Life expectancy of a car - barney100
Cheaper than fuel, though in Canada at present and they have much cheaper fuel. Alaska seems to have many very old cars but they look done in.
Economic Life expectancy of a car - veryoldbear

I have high hopes of my Saab 95 2.2tid Estate. It's now on 192000 and I'm definitely hanging on for the 200000. The vintage chain cam tractor engine gives as much power as one can use these days, doesn't use oil, and all the electric bits work. May need some more back tyres soon (95's tend to eat them rather), but this is bangernomics at its most comfortable.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - xtrailman

I remember reading some were that air bags only have a life expectancy of 10 years?

Economic Life expectancy of a car - xtrailman

I remember reading some were that air bags only have a life expectancy of 10 years?

Economic Life expectancy of a car - madf

I remember reading some were that air bags only have a life expectancy of 10 years?

Old hat. They lasted longer so life as long as most cars.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - V4 Heaven
My 1997 Toyota Carina 1.8GS petrol is running without fault at 170,000 miles. The only thing that has properly died is the air con and the repair costs are way more than the car's worth. I can always open the electric sunroof if I want extra fresh air.

The car starts first time and still gives 40mpg plus. It does a 50 mile round trip commute every day with no problems.

The original exhaust had to be replaced last year and the fitter commented that there comes a point when it's not worth repairing a car. I have to disagree with him to a point. Whatever repairs you do to a car, be it one year old or 15 years old, you will never recoup that money. My car has finished depreciating too!

The only rust is along the seam on the bottom of the drivers door. but it's still solid and the paint shines well.

So I'll keep on driving the old bus - I'm aiming for 200,000 miles on the clock!
Economic Life expectancy of a car - unthrottled

Whatever repairs you do to a car, be it one year old or 15 years old, you will never recoup that money.

This is an excellent point that most people don't understand. Spending £100 on consumables on a £200 car is no worse value than on a £15,000 car. It's just that the cost of the part seems expensive relative to the 'value' of the car. But the market value of the car is of no consequence-until you sell it.

Old cars are great for nervous/inexperienced DIYers who can 'have a go' without fear of causing expensive damage. Just invest in a decent set of Stilsons, molegrips and a propane torch for those 15 year old fasteners...

The other bonus of cheap cars is that everyone else on the road has more to lose than you!

Economic Life expectancy of a car - madf

Whatever repairs you do to a car, be it one year old or 15 years old, you will never recoup that money.

Well err.. there is an Opportunity Cost if you don't do repairs.

Suppose you car is worth £100, and it needs repairs worth £500. Hardly worthwhile you may think.

But to replace it with a reasonable runner may cost £2,000 (say).

So the spending of £500 saves a bill of £2000.

And in reality any old car is worth at least £100 as scrap..

Edited by madf on 13/09/2012 at 14:45

Economic Life expectancy of a car - John F

madf is right as usual. There is also the opportunity cost of the return on the capital, say £5000, which you would not have spent if you had kept the old car.

Cars without electronics, numerous electric motors and aircon are the ones likely to be troublefree the longest - see London-Brighton veterans! Solidly overengineered cars are the best. My TR7 [32yrs, all original apart from 2 recent new rear brake cylinders and a condenser 20yrs ago] will still run after the eventual predicted electromagnetic sunburst has paralysed all the computers!

Economic Life expectancy of a car - skittles

The problem with running an old car is not that it breakdown from time to time, even if you use a gaRage to repair it, but the down time and inconviniance.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - unthrottled

ut the down time and inconviniance.

Another excellent point. Which neatly brings us to the answer to the OP.:the lifetime of a car is when the frequency of the repairs becomes intolerable. Sadly this can't be converted to X miles or Y years.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - xtrailman

My first car cost £60 from auction, then cost another £60 to have rust repairs, just to get it through the MOT.

And at a 110K miles the engine was tired. So selling it wasnt a hard decision.

And it had achieved its original mission to get me a couple of years NCD on the insurance.

My second car a MK1 Cortina i kept for 7 years, sold at 12 years old, i would have kept it longer, but didn't want the costs on the horizon.

So sold it to a local chap, that was a mistake, a month later he came to the house complaining that a front wheel bearing had failed!

What did he expect on a 12year old 120K car?

There does come a time to move on.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - 1litregolfeater

Where have all the other posts gone?

It must be a sensitive issue this for all those posts to get deleted.

In which case, I'll post nothing.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - Avant

"Where have all the other posts gone?

It must be a sensitive issue this for all those posts to get deleted.

In which case, I'll post nothing."

No posts deleted on here by me - nor by anyone else, or I'd be able to see them.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - Glenn 42

Rust used to be the big killer, with many cars being scrapped at 8-9 years old due to serious corrosion. but this seems to have been beaten now and also most modern engines, if serviced correctly, will last for 150,000 miles. The usual culprit now is the electrics, I could imagine electrical problems on elderly French cars being prohibitive to repair. Usually, though, the less complex and well maintained cars nowadays should last about 14 years.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - mortlake64

Does anyone know of any statistics on why cars are scrapped?

I'd like to see stats for each model of car and age that say how many are scrapped because

  1. an insurance company writes them off,
  2. an owner thinks that the repair bills are too high.

Maybe these stats don't exists anywhere, but something similar would be good. I am trying to work out the costs of running old small cars, up to 15 years old, on a P2P hire site. The cost of them conking-out could be a big factor.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - John F

Seven years on, our Focus estate (20 this year) and TR7 (40 this year) are still going strong. I wonder how many of the cars mentioned above in 2012 are still going.

Economic Life expectancy of a car - SLO76
Not sure if the information you’re after is available but I do know that the average age of a car at scrappage in 2015 reached 13.9 years, which is on a par with the 2014 performance. The lowest scrappage age, 13 years, was recorded in 2009, a result of government’s scrappage scheme skewing the figure.

I take it you’re trying to work out costs with a business plan to lease older and thus cheaper cars to the public? I once thought about something similar a cheaper lease and reduced worry for the customer regarding minor knocks and scuffs which would be mostly ignored.

It’s entirely possible to run simple older mass produced petrol engined cars very cheaply. A fleet of 10yr old Honda’s, Mazda’s and Toyota’s could for example be bought and reliably maintained but the problem is that Joe Public will utterly abuse them and should one have a serious safety failure you could and most likely would be held accountable. Insurance may be a problem with this in mind.

Another problem would be that in order to buy cars in good order you couldn’t be overly fussy as to make and model. Yes a 10yr old Jazz or Civic would be reliable but I wouldn’t walk past a tidy Vauxhall Corsa or Astra to get to a tatty Honda.

Bought right in private sales or possibly by advertising a car buying service you could run a car for a year then sell it for what you paid or more. I’ve done this for many years when I was trading from home, cars either cost me nothing over a year or very little. I did drive them with a high degree of mechanical sympathy though, very unlike the typical short term lease punter.

My current car, a 2010 Toyota Avensis estate cost £4150 in Sept 2018 and I’m confident I’d get £3,500 selling it today so that’s a £650 drop in 15mths or £43 a month. The car has been utterly reliable and safe and to date has cost nothing more than a bulb though two new tyres are now required at around £200. I’ll not include the cost of a replacement remote key (£109) as that was entirely my fault. It’s a good example to base costs on.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/02/2020 at 16:00

Economic Life expectancy of a car - mortlake64

Interesting that average scrap age is 13.9 years.

  • Written-off crashed cars are younger I suppose. So:
  • Worn-out cars are older than 13.9 years, if that's the average.

The rest of this post is just rambling-on about renting-out old cars!

I've rented a 5 year-old Peugeot 108 auto on one or two of the P2P car hire agencies for a couple of years, and customers have not broken it yet. The car did get crashed into while parked, but that earned me the replacement cost, and a huge amount of work. Next time I will try to get a car delivered at the other side's insurers' cost. A spare key was £222. Depreciation is about £50 a month and falling, so I wondered about renting-out two cars.

The agencies (Hiyacar, Turo, Getaround in the UK or Fleet I think in Ireland; Easycar and Whipcar closed) have to find the insurance while the car is hired, which makes them unstable. Easycar closed because it couldn't get a cheap insurance quote; Admiral insurance pulled-out of the market, and some agencies are rumoured to run at a loss just to prove the concept to insurers.

  • I guess that automatics are harder for customers to stress and break, which narrows-down the choice hugely so it would be good if I am wrong and can risk manual cars on the public.
  • I assume that black cars are easy to hit in the dark and found some rough evidence for this online.
  • I assume that diesel cars are too easy to fill with petrol by mistake.

I look on Motors.co.uk and similar, narrow-down results by insurance cost, and then look at MOT advisories on sites like Caranalytics. The models that score well on Reliabilityindex.co.uk are the Toyota / Citroen / Peugeot city cars, with the VW / Skoda / Seat models not far behind and Fiat Panda not so good. Toyota IQ are good except small; Honda Jazz are good except slightly larger; One agency now quotes insurance to customers separately for each model and will accept cars up to 15 years old, So Skoda Citygo's insurance group 1 should attract customers if the car lasts for 15 years, but lots of models get rented-out on all the agencies. Car owners in parking permit zones have another issue to think about. At least one council gives free car club permits for cars with class A emissions, in a new scheme not much tested. This rules-out Honda Jazz and even Skoda Citygo, bit accepts Peugeot 108. Other councils charge nearly £3-400 a year for the same permit, or if you use a personal permit you are limited to one car.

I haven't thought of a way of leasing-out cars, but there are people who get a fleet of say ten to rent out on a P2P rental agency. The trouble in London is finding cheap parking in places where people want to use the things on weekdays. The cars can be set to unlock with smartphone apps, but it's still a job to go and check the cars and hoover-up the spilt crumbs. It would be a good investment for someone with a car park next to a station but not for me. Towns like London with a congestion zone might have more car-less customers looking for rides. I don't know how viable this is for people away from public transport, and guess it would be more like a zipcar service provided to neighbours and maybe a deliver-to-airport-at-extra-cost service.

Edited by mortlake64 on 08/02/2020 at 19:43