Got a call from shocked young son who had had a minor rear end shunt at 8.00pm last night. He had gently nudged into the back of a G reg 12 yr old knackered Mazda - his fault. The wife's Focus he was driving had a couple of scratches but no damage. He says he says he shoved her rear-bumper/skirt in slightly. I'm seeing it this pm. Plod called, son breath tested - no problem. Documents all in order.Plod goes off happy - no further action etc. etc. When I ring up other party (woman) this am asking to view damage she says she's in bed (you've guessed) with whiplash.
I'm thinking of going round with £200 in cash for her Xmas present. My excess & no claims (& next year's policy) will be hundreds more but If she wants to go down the compensation route it'll have to be an insurance job. Any advice (quick !) please ????
Bt B
Remember - it's not how you vote that matters ...it's who does the counting.
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This is really annoying, but its becoming the fashion here.
Firstly, absolutely no way should you give her any cash. Its as strong as an admission of guilt and you insurer may then refuse to deal with the claim at all.
If you still wanted to, you would need to make sure that you got a letter from her accepting the money "in full & final settlement" which I doubt you would get.
I suggest you can around to view the damage and see how it goes. Maybe ask her what she thinks the total claim will be. But do NOT ask directly about whiplash.
Keep the cash in your pocket, and if it comes up, then offer to pay cash now but make damned sure you get the receipt signed in full & final as I said above.
However, was it me, I'd stick it all down to nsurance and bite on the frustration of her getting about 2000 quid and some lawyer picking up another 8 grand.
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I cannot offer any more sound advice than Mark has but, if the other driver tells you that she is in bed with "whiplash" injuries, politely ask why she was driving with these symptoms. If she says (as she is bound to)that the injuries were caused by your Son's minor shunt, express complete incredulity and insist that, in the light of the minor damage, this was impossible. Stand your ground now and ask for her medical report. She won't have one, unless her "whiplash" injuries were caused prior to the minor altercation with your Son. If the shunt was as minor as you describe, I would hope that you won't allow yourself to become another victim of the litigation disease now affecting our society.
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Bob,
Read through this saga called "Accident Questions"
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=i&t=84...8
and then just go through your insurance. Its probably not worth the hassle (IMHO) even if it does stick in the craw!
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Yes, I'm the cause of that thread, and the main thing I have learned is that some people will go out of their way to get as much as possible from such a situation. If you stick your ground, insist on medical proof etc, etc then you might save yourself some money (depends how much the claim will affect your premium) but there are a lot of minefields to be circumnavigated and there is always the risk you will be landed with another bill once everything is over.
To give you some idea of the repair cost, for a Polo rear bumper (colour coded) with no structural damage (they changed the casing and painted it) the cost was £250, plus another £125 in expenses. If your son might have caused more damage (and don't think no signs of damage on your car is a sign he hasn't - I once saw a Cavalier demolish a Talbot Sunbeam without suffering a scratch!) then this can go up a lot. The only bargaining chip you might have is that they'll probably write the car off if she does claim.
Insurance might not be the cheapest way to do things, but it saves you hassle and potential problems.
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I would agree with Steve.
As far as the damage is concerned, the insurance may write the car off but the woman will get to keep it for say £50 off the settlement.
That old banger she was driving is worth no more than £200 of your money.
The injury - She's taking the P. I was involved in a major rear end shunt last year and I didn't even take time off sick. My car was totalled and so was the car that went into the back of me.
If she wants to pursue the injury route she's going to have to convince a consultant physio that she suffered. This will cost her or her insurance money in the short term at least.
You need to make it clear to your insurance that the impact was only slight and subject to her claim being limited to the £200 mark, you could be willing to avoid a claim by paying it yourself
Your insurers would then take reasonable steps to avoid being fleeced, not always possible but see how it goes.
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I once attended an a very minor, no damage accident. Whilst waiting at a roundabout, a car had crept into the back of the one in front at less than 5mph. There was no damage to either car. On arrival, the woman driving the 'struck' car was moaning and saying she couldn't move. It was blatant acting, but an ambulance had already been called and they were duty bound to take her to the hospital, where she laid it on thick and fast.
I told the drivers to swap details and filled out a minor RTA report.
It then got complicated. It turned out that this women was the wife of a Detective Chief Inspector who worked at our Headquarters. He subsequently contacted my supervisor, demanding to know why I hadn't reported the driver of the car who had hit his wife. (Obviously a prosecution looks better on a claim form.)He had also obtained a copy of the accident form from our admin department to see exactly what I had submitted. The threat was made that if I didn't change my mind and report the driver, I would be disciplined for neglect of duty.
Disgusted, I stood my ground and pointed out the offences he had committed under the Data Protection Act, in obtaining a copy of the report. I told him to do his worst and that I looked forward to seeing him in court. Needless to say it went very quiet.
Maybe not a very good career move, but I was and still am, disgusted by this shameless attempt at profitering.
It's a good job I don't want a job with CID.
MLC
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MLC
You should have threatened him with an attempted crime against Section 16 Theft Act 1968 - obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception.
You would have had him eating out of your hand.
DVD
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Perhaps a couple of hours sitting outside this womans house with a camera or preferably a camcorder might pay dividends. Be interesting to see if her acting abilities are up to feigning her injury for an indefinate period.
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Agree totally with Mark - let the insurance guys fight it out amongst themselves. The lady your boy shunted into is obviously gonna be awkward and go for whatever she can get. Unfortunately that's a sign of the times and reasonable folk will just have to get used to it.
Do not on any account go round there with cash, or whatever, you're just admitting liability,stay well out of it. Let your insurance company know the whole story and sit back and enjoy Xmas - that's what you pay your premium for.
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Lots of good advice so far but whatever you do NOW take photos of your car and her car ASAP.
John
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Sorry to hear of the prang ,Bob, but I think I'll reiterate the advice I gave SteveH42 in the Accident Questions thread that RitchieW has posted the url for.
If there is any sort of doubt in your mind that the other party is looking like they might be less than straightforward and honest about any aspect of the claim do yourself a favour and walk away and leave the insurance company to deal.
I know it is tempting to think you might be able to do a deal and save a bit, after all who wouldn't, but at the end of the day you are paying insurance for a reason. You will almost certainly find that all the hassle you will be saved by allowing them to deal will make the premium seem cheap in the end, difficult to believe I know, but I think a few people here will back that up!!
Glad to hear that it was only a minor bump and nobody seriously hurt, good luck with getting it all sorted out.
Cockle
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An update ! I went around to view said car. Totally knackered G-Reg Nissan Stanza. Holes all over the place, patches welde on, other bumps and dents. Woman driver (early 20's) and Dad see me view it and take photos of car from every angle. Dad suggested he would get a mate to quote on repairs. I said I would be willing to negotiate a non-insurance settlement subject to sensible limits. he said he would be in touch. A whole week has passes (I know, it's Xmas week) and he hasn't got back. Should I let it lie doggo or pursue it ? Could it be, it wasn't legally on the road / had no insurance / was nicked etc etc etc ?/
Bob
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I'd lie doggo and wait to see what they do. I shoud think that the longer they leave it, the weaker any bogus whiplash case might be. As for a clapped out G reg, £100 would be the most I would consider settling for without going through the insurance. Probably twice what the thing is worth.
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Something wrong here. Wait for him to make the follow up, don't offer a cash settlement. If everything was kosher, you'd have heard soonest. Interesting to see if insurance was properly declared, MOT etc was spot on.....
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Bob...Do please keep us informed as to the outcome of this incident and bear in mind that there is a 78%(***) liklihood that any whiplash injury would have been her own fault for not having head restraint adjusted correctly.
***For more info on this subject visit: www.thatcham.org/ and click on :"New Car Whiplash Rating" (It applies to old bangers too)then on "Save Your Neck" then on "Head Restraints-Why They Need To Be Improved".
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Just make sure you don't admit any liability and make sure any payment agreed is accepted as full and final settlement covering all aspects of the incident. This would cover you against any further claims for injury etc, though I really don't think anything will be forthcoming. In addition, any injuries lasting for fewer than 4 weeks are not generally pursued anyway.
If you have not handed over your insurance details, don't offer them unless you are asked - then you have to by law. At least this will give you control over insurance claims that she makes.
Furthermore, If they do get back to you, ask to see their MOT Cert and their insurance policy etc before putting your hand in your pocket, tell them your insurance company have advised this. If your suspicions are correct and these cannot be produced - well you just tell them that you need to be convinced that the car was legally on the road before this goes any further. Whatever you find out, just let your insurers know.
I doubt that they would pursue a claim if they could not prove that the car was legally on the road.
Good luck
H
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Driving uninsured does not preclude them claiming, although whether they would chance the possibility of the police taking action is another matter.
I agree that the best course of action is do nothing as if they are going to claim for whiplash injuries you are talking serious money.
Unfortunately there are a whole new breed of 'No win - No fee' lawyers who take up cases like this. I use the term 'Breed' in its worse possible connotation.
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Mr. Pug''' may advise differently, but i've always understood that "Full and Final Settlement" wasn't Bombproof.
I'd like to know too.
Regards
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BTB.
You say your son was breathtested, therefore the Police must have attended. Did they check or issue producers for both parties documents? Did they treat the matter as an injury or non injury RTA? Did they take any action or was it "minor RTA details exchanged"?
If the other party has not produced or has no insurance etc then they should be prosecuted.
I am sure I heard somewhere that true whiplash does not actually take effect immediatly there is a time delay which I cannot remember so there is some credibility to John Davies suggestion that she was already driving with the symptoms
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