Sorry to bring this up again, but another worrying (to me) thing has cropped up. (I'm posting this in a new thread as the old one was getting a bit long - hope this is OK!)
After the last saga, I wrote back to the other parties insurer confirming my details and contacted my insurer to sort out the details with them. I've not heard back from her insurer yet, but today she cornered me and again demanded to be told if I was going to pay her insurer or not. As I was getting sick of this by now, I told her that it was none of her business and not to bring it up again as it isn't anything to do with her anymore - it's between me and her insurer. At this, she made a veiled threat that I had better be careful the DVLA don't get involved.
I take this to mean she suspects I'm uninsured and is planning to report this to the DVLA. Now, I know I am insured and her insurer does (should!) but if she decides to be nasty, can this actually cause me any trouble? Would the DVLA do anything anyway? Surely not having insurance would be a police matter and all I'd have to do would be to show them my certificate and the matter would be ended? Is she just making empty threats to get at me, or can she actually make trouble?
Also, is there any way I can get her to stop bothering me over this? Is it worth telling her insurer that she's doing this and ask them to tell her to keep out of it? I don't really see what more I can do at the moment anyway - I'm waiting for further contact from both her and my insurers to tell me what is happening and the cost so I can decide whether to reimburse my insurer or not. I can't see that she will have lost out at all - as far as I know she's only had to fork out for taxis, and I assume her insurer will have reimbursed her for that by now?
Any advice and reassurance would be appreciated!
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IMHO, the DVLA wouldn't give a toss if you were insured or not. They are only a company that provides a Database for owners of cars and driving licences. Not having insurance is a Police matter. Besides you say you have insurance, so you have nothing to worry about. She should be talking to are her own insurance company about this, not you.
Also, is there any way I can get her to stop bothering me over this?
You mentioned previously she (illegally) obtained your personal details from some kind of register/database at work. You could casually drop into the next confrontation with her that if she doesn't watch HER step, you will report her for breaking any company's or Data Protection Act's policy.
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"it's between me and her insurer"
No it's not.
There are 3 valid conversations:-
1) exchange of details between you and other party.
2) You giving all info to your insurer.
3) the 2 insurance companies coming to some agreement.
1) has finished.
FINISHED.
All insurance companies will tell you
"all correspondence must be forwarded to us, unanswered"
That's what you do.
Tell your insurance company about any contact from her.
Write down (at the time, or as soon after as possible)
everything she says -
and send it to insurance company.
THAT's what you pay them for.
Your ONLY response to her MUST be
"no comment - as REQUIRED by my insurance company"
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If she continues to harass you, tell her that your insurance comany are dealing with it on your belhalf and she should communicate directly with them.
If this fails, you have every right to report her to the Police for harrasment. This may sound daft but she may be trying to frighten you into accepting liability.
When Involved in a minor incident, the other party contacted me for my details, which I duly gave, then they started complaining about the damage to their car.
"Well - suggest we let the insurers sort out both cars. Goodby" I said. Then I put the phone down. - Sorted.
The reason she is doing this is probably because she feels unable to pursue her cause any other way.
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IMHO, TrevorP is exactly correct.
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[original text removed.]
Next time, Graham, you will lose your registration. - Mark.
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I'm *sure* Mark won't let that comment stay! I doubt that would help - let's just say she isn't my type anyway and anyway I think the only thing that would mellow her would be if I bought her a brand new Polo to replace the one I inconsiderately scratched...
The main trouble is that have to work with her, and already there's been at least one case where she has caused problems because of this. (Won't do things for me at work even though it's part of her job) I don't want to wind her up even more, but I do want her to start behaving like a mature adult...
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She sounds like an absoloute headcase to me...
Blue
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All insurance companies will tell you "all correspondence must be forwarded to us, unanswered"
As mentioned before, as I do not have anything other than my insurance certificate I was not aware of this, but I find the letter from Direct Line extremely worrying in light of this information. To quote:
'We will need to contact your insurance company. Please complete and return this letter in the enclosed pre-pain envelope.'
Anyone not completely sure of that to do could easily be misled (as I was) in to replying rather than forwarding the letter...
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Having read SteveH42's lengthy contributions out of the 125 posts on the original "Accident Qusetions"
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=i&t=84...8
and then on this "revisited" thread, it strikes me that the problem may lie not with the other party but with SteveH42 himself. He seems determined to ask for advice and then ignore it. TrevorP has given the best succint advice to him on this thread and let us hope SteveH42 understands it fully - that is, he must deal direct with his own Insurance Company and make no comments/replies to anyone else. It seems from that he has been speaking to the third party's insurance company rather than just forwarding evrything on to his own Insurers.
I am amazed about one aspect of this saga; and that is the ease with which some people are jumping to conclusions about the third party whose side of the story we have not heard. Even without having heard her story, if you just try to see her point of view based on SteveH42's tale, it might become apparent that she has cause to be concerned. (How would you feel if the person who damages your car starts doing things differently to how you believed he had agreed to settle at the time of the accident, and then find at another stage that his insurance company cannot even confirm whether he has a policy with them!). Based on this one sided story, I have every sympathy with the woman concerned, whose car has been damaged by a self-confessed careless driver.
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I am slightly confused here - the letters from Direct Line (her insurer) were asking me to confirm insurance details - should I not have answered these but passed them on to my insurer? I'd assumed that something as basic as that I should answer myself. I have passed the matter to my insurer - the purpose of this thread is to ask whether the 'threats' made by the other party have any substance and what I can do to get her to give over and stop mythering me about it when she shouldn't be getting involved at all.
I'm not sure what you mean by me doing things differently to how we had agreed. At the time of the accident she agreed to my suggestion that I'd pay myself and said she would get quotes. It was her that changed this by going through her insurance - something I have since learned she was intending to do from the outset but hadn't told me. I do agree that the problem with my insurer could be worrying, but I am interested to know how she even got to find this out - surely Direct Line should have contacted me first to resolve it, and only mentioned it to her if there was still a problem?
The long and short of it is that her car has been fixed so it is ended for her. She's got nothing to lose anymore, all that needs doing is the bill to be paid and that will be done by my insurer. So why is she still on at me?
As for being careless, I suppose if a momentary lapse of concentration is careless then yes, I am, as are probably 99% of drivers on the road. Who hasn't made a minor mistake from time to time? Usually you catch yourself in time, on this occasion I was unlucky and what I was trying to resolve in a quick and cost effective manner has become a costly and troublesome saga for us both...
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"should I not have answered these but passed them on to my insurer?"
Which word of
"ALL correspondence is to to be passed to us unanswered"
do you not understand?
"surely Direct Line should have contacted me first to resolve it"
No - have you not been listening?
"a costly and troublesome saga for us both"
Perhaps.
Perhaps also a contender for "biggest waste of time thread" on this Forum.
Why persist in this "But this . . " and "but that . . ."?
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Which word of "ALL correspondence is to to be passed to us unanswered" do you not understand?
I understand it, I was not aware of it at the time. This is the first time I have had a claim and I have had nothing from my insurer but my cover documents, so I didn't know what they wanted me to do. Also, the letter from DL was a bit cunningly worded to give the impression you were to answer it.
"surely Direct Line should have contacted me first to resolve it" No - have you not been listening?
If Direct Line cannot get details of my policy through my insurer (for whatever reason) what else are they to do but contact me to confirm? That said, I suppose you are correct that I should have sent the details to my insurer in the first place - I now know better!
Why persist in this "But this . . " and "but that . . ."?
Why do some people persist in pulling my messages to pieces for things to shout about without answering the concerns I have?
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Give the poor bloke a break, he has probably suffered enough by now...
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TrevorP,
A little more politeness wouldn't come amiss. And as for "biggest waste of time thread" I don't think so. Seteve may have had more worries than most, but many people will have at least one of his worries in the event of a claim.
SteveH42,
Having said that, Trevor does have a point. It really is as simple as pass everything to your insurance company. The only thing I would ever get involved in is that on receipt of the other insurer's first letter I would have replied confirming that you had passed their correspondance to Insurance Company X under Reference/Policy Number y.
It is not a good idea to get involved in any other way.
You insurer has no duty to consult with you about how, when they settle the claim. Although if they decide not to, they would have to tell you that.
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SteveH42 - Lesson 1: If you have an accident, first talk to your insurance company or read your insurance booklet. Follow their instructions fully.
Also, you might like to think about this - just suppose someone gives a copy of your posts to the woman whose car you damaged. Are you so sure of your facts that you are happy for her to read them?
If so, either tell her to log on here and read these posts or give her a printed copy. Now that should soon sort out where the problem lies.
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Steve,
MB is very blunt but there is an undercurrent of sense in what he says. My problem with all of this is that you are but one side of a story, human nature dictates you will present it in your best interest. In posting about every detail you have built this girl up to be someone the group should "dislike". She will be someone's Mum/Sister/Daughter/Wife and to incite the forum to brand her as mad and worse is well out of order.
It had crossed my mind ages ago that you'd given enough information for her to be identified by friends/workmates who could come across this forum...I think she'd have been gutted to see the "anti" feeling you'd managed to raise against her from a trivial everyday incident that was 99% your error.
This is an open national/international forum and bear in mind under different circumstances she could have got here first. Then we'd have had all the regulars supporting this poor girl who'd been run into by some dozy fool...think about it.
MM
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just suppose someone gives a copy of your posts to the woman >> whose car you damaged
Just what he needs, something else to worry about!:)
SteveH42, let the insurers sort this out between them - you pay them to have headaches on your behalf - and if the third party persists in badgering you just keep politely pointing out that this is what you are doing. It really isn't worth turning one of life's minor molehills into a Himalaya.
Good luck ;)
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I think some people are being a little uncharitable here. A problem shared etc...
Personally I have enjoyed (Probably the wrong word) this little soap opera and it makes quite cautionary tale that its not always worth the hassle trying to preserve your no claims history.
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I really don't know how true it is to say that the 'lady' in question could be identified from Steve's posts 'cos I have been unable to access them all.
If it's true it was perhaps unwise of hom and unfair to the person in question.
As for us only having one side of the story, surely that's the case with most of the posts on this forum and will always be so.
Good luck anyway Steve - just let her get on with it.
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Trying to respond to many people in one post...
Firstly, I am trying not to put her in a bad light, but I'm afraid sometimes my frustration gets the better of me. I really don't want to get her in trouble - I know she is really unpopular at work and it's a bit embarrasing that everyone there is taking my side as well - I really just want advice. The support is appreciated, but I'd rather people just kept it to advice and left out making any comments about her.
SteveH42 - Lesson 1: If you have an accident, first talk to your insurance company or read your insurance booklet. Follow their instructions fully.
I probably did approach this wrongly. As the damage was so minor I didn't think it was worth going through the insurance - even the (seemingly inflated) £350 she was quoted was still worth me paying to save my NCD and I hadn't even realised it was going to cost this much - I was thinking about £100. Basically, it seemed so minor I didn't even think it would need to be an insurance claim. Lesson learned! I must admit it didn't help that people at work were giving examples of occasions where they had had similar or worse incidents and had settled for a reasonable cash sum.
Also, as I've pointed out, I haven't been sent an insurance booklet. No real excuse, but it would have helped me to know what to do.
As for getting her to read the posts, if it were just mine then it might be OK, but you couldn't look at my posts in isolation and the general 'gist' of the thread is worryingly anti-her. Also, I've been dragged in to being too harsh on her I admit. I was trying to keep it as purely 'what do I do?' but I always seem to let myself be dragged in to side-issues...
The situation is, and has been for a while, that I have handed the matter over to my insurer as advised. Initially they could not find my policy details as they hadn't realised I'd changed car (despite me pointing this out!) but it's now sorted.
PLEASE no more assumptions or insinuations about the other party. All I needed to know was that I should tell her nothing and respond to anything she says about this incident with a 'no comment' and that her 'threat' is groundless.
Thanks for *ALL* replies.
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I found that even if you are as polite and helpful as possible there is something about minor accidents that changes some people. I had a minor bump, my fault, and the damage was so slight I was not going to claim. However the other person, very pleasant to speak to, so inflated the cost of his repairs I had to pass it onto my insurance. Saved me a lot of hassle discussing the value of his claim.
Although, with protected NCB, it will not cost me anything directly. I would have preferred to pay cash which the other driver would have pocketed and not bothered to repair. Now he will get the tiny dent knocked out but not see any of the cash he was hoping for.
Still reckon it pays to be polite all all times whatever you really feel! After all he might be a customer of mine in the future.
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Hi, SteveH42,
just putting me tuppeny's worth into this. It won't be helpful or advisory, but.....
For what it's worth, it certainly doesn't sound to me like you've been trying to get all the BR's against this lady. I've read this post from the start, and to me personally, whether or not (I don't know!) you've been right in all you have done, it certainly doesn't seem like you're on a vindictive campaign against the lady!
Of course there are those that will say that we only see one side of the argument here - and of course that's true, but surely that is part of the point of this room - we post our problem and hope others can help us. If it was a debating society then it would be different, but it isn't, and as such I see no problem in seeing a one-sided argument - I think we are all human enough to know that there are 2 sides, but the point of this room is surely to advise/try to help the person who has come here asking for help?!
Sorry to all if butting in where not needed
HF
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I'm going to take the risk of resurrecting this thread, hoping I can get some more advice and that it won't degenerate as it did last time...
Well, it's now over 6 months since the accident and still no resolution. It's starting to get to me a bit now, so I'd appreciate any advice on just what I can do to sort things out. The problem is now that despite several letters asking for a response, I have not heard from her insurer since late February.
The amount of the claim had worked out to be about what I would expect to pay extra on my next insurance premium, so I decided I'd settle it myself, and told my insurer that. I was attempting to negotiate a more reasonable amount for the uninsured losses, but was not getting very far with getting answers from her insurer, let alone any indication of what was considered acceptable. In an attempt to move things along, I sent them a cheque for the damages, and a cheque for the amount I considered reasonable to offer for uninsured losses, detailing why I felt this to be more reasonable than the claim. I specified that I'd consider both amounts accepted if any one cheque was cashed, and asked that if they did not accept the offer to return both cheques. Basically, this was so that I didn't have to go to the hassle of cancelling cheques to make sure they couldn't cash ones they had rejected.
Their response to this was to say the offer was not acceptable, but yet again, no details were given as to why, no sum was mentioned that they would find acceptable, and no proof was given that these expenses had actually been incurred as a result of the accident. Also, the cheques were not returned as I'd requested.
I replied to them saying that I really needed them to talk to me, to make some attempt to justify some parts of the claim that appear highly suspicious, and also to please return my cheques. However, I have not heard a thing from them in reply to this letter, despite sending a letter politely noting that they had not replied.
It's now approaching my renewal time, so as you can probably imagine I'd rather like to get this settled so I can get a good price for my new insurance - I doubt many insurers are going to be interested if I say I have a claim ongoing. Writing to them seems to be getting nowhere and I have no telephone contact for them, so I don't know what to do now.
*Any* advice or suggestions would be appreciated at this point!
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Hi Steve - really sorry to hear that this matter is still unresolved. Can't access the original thread or give any advice on the insurance issues but have you taken any legal advice on this matter ? You could contact your local CAB and use their duty soilcitor free of charge. Alternatively you may find you have legal cover via your household insurance. In any event, why not take some proper advice on how to proceed - even if this doesn't resolve the problem, doing so might just help you to avoid doing something which prejudices your position.
Apologies for wasting your time if you've been down this route already and best of luck !
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Steve,
what do you think you pay a premium for? The one lesson you absolutely have to learn from all this is to stay out of it. The whole point of a premium is for THEM to handle sagas like this from start to finish. They know the legal landscape, they know what to say, what not to say, and when and how to play hardball.
An insurance company is a multi-million professional outfit with an entire specialist infrastructure built round handling these situations. You are one individual. Where you are now is why you should have left your insurance company to it and politely shrugged your shoulders at your colleague.
What do you do now? I'd seriously think about involving a solicitor; it'll cost, but it will prevent you sinking further into an expensive and time-consuming problem. I wouldn't be surprised if this was starting to wear you as an individual down, so you need to take some financial consequences rather than psychological ones.
Then have an honest an open conversation with a broker about your next insurance. Your best bet is not to burden a new insurer with a knotty problem; they're going to be wary of someone whose good intentions backfired.
Also think about having a word with the Citizens Advice Bureau and the Association of British Insurers to see if they have any sound advice.
But please learn the lesson. You paid someone to protect you. Let THEM do it.
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Quite true. The only thing I can say in my defence is that at the time at total cost of at the most £360 seemed quite reasonable compared to anything up to £800 or more over the next 3 years if I lost my NCD.
TBH, my main worry at the moment is why her insurer simply aren't talking to me. I can't see what they expect me to do TBH until they tell me what is going on, and surely the longer they wait the more they are out of pocket as they have already paid for the repair.
What is sickening is that less than £50 worth of damage has been blown up to nearly £250 plus stupid expenses and has dragged on for over 6 months when it should have been settled within a week and forgotten.
Thanks for your advice BTW!
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Steve,
I'm really sorry you're in this pickle, but like I say, get a professional on to it.
And come to terms with the fact that this isn't about 'her' and 'her insurers' anymore. It's about YOU and how someone who knows what they're doing can get YOU out of it with some dignity intact.
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Well, it is about her and her insurer in that her insurer won't talk to me, and when they were doing, it was her that wasn't giving any information and was rejecting any attempt to come to an agreement.
For myself, I'm not bothered about how it reflects on me, but I would rather appreciate being able to draw a line under it. For all I know, her insurer may have dropped the whole thing for some reason. However, I will take your advice and see what the CAB can advise me. Thank you.
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Now why should her insurer not be bothered??
Was she actually insured?
Fullchat
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Wow...what a thread...I think I've read most of it...
Steve
The way I understand it at the moment she has had the car fixed and her insurance company has paid with it. As such ignore anything she has to say to her. Who cares what she thinks/feels?
The way car insurance companies work is they trade claims. So for example if company 1 has 50 rear end shunts against company 2 and vice versa they will just say call it quits effectively. Done on a larger scale of course. This is economically sound.
You are trouble to them since you stop them doing this. Most likely your file is being passed from desk to desk like the plague at her insurance company. A rent dispute with a council i have some knowledge of has done this desk swopping for over twelve years. Partly since councils are particularly inefficient but you get my point. 6 months is not even warm up time gone...
Let me ask it this way...what would you as an insurance company do with you? Stick the lawyer on it? Don't think so- a trainee will cost you 80£ an hour and to get a lawyer who can tie their shoelaces is going to cost you 150£+ an hour. 350£ is nothing compared with the time it would cost to just read your letters. So everyone who sees you file will pass it on, and by that I mean leave it at the back of the desk, or drop it on someone elses when going on holidays and pray not to see it again.
350£ in cash means something to you and me as individuals but it means nothing to a business. A new build house I know of has had a 20000£ retention on it for 4 years. The buyer won't release it because the paint is patchy or something silly. Why bother going for the money though? The money is held by a solicitor, and is in theory at least the builders money. Since the money is in theory the builders it is written up in the accounts as money they are owed. This is as good as cash for a big business. It can go on pretty indefinitely when its only a small amount. In that sense I wouldn't be surprised (though an accountant on this site will tell me it can't be done ) if this money appears as a debt, doesn't therefore impact their accounts so why bother with you?
What I'm trying to say is that the insurance company just can't be bothered about you, because its not worth their time.
Your problem is not with her insurance company but how to get your insurance reasonably priced with this 'unclosed' issue. Since I want to go to bed I'll leave that to someone else to advice on.
If you don't like having unclosed business, you should have done it through your insurance. Much contentious legal business reaches no conclusion, and just ends in openended silence...
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Steeve I think it's quite clear you need some cheap legal advice via the CAB as previously stated. I'm not quite clear has the insurance company cashed your cheques? As to the other party's
uninsured losses the main insurer won't get involved as they are just that,uninsured losses, nothing to do with them. I'm thinking they have paid for the damage to the other car and are going to clobber your "colleagues" NCD. Do go and see the CAB as previously stated.
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Thanks to Gen for a very informative answer. Looking at tha makes me wonder that I got so many letters out of them in the first place!
To answer Godfrey, no, they haven't cashed my cheques otherwise I'd consider it settled. However, her insurer does seem to be getting involved with the uninsured losses - it is on them that they have refused to settle. I sent them a cheque for the full amount of their expenses, so if they weren't bothered about her losses, surely they would have just accepted that? I suspect she must have some sort of uninsured loss recovery on her policy.
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Interesting that the main insurer is dealing with uninsured losses. I have uninsured loss recovery on my policy and I've had to use it on two occaisions with two different insurers. In both cases they passed the case over to specialist solictors and discussion of the uninsured losses was between me and the solictors. Neither time was settlement unreasonably delayed. As you are making an offer I'm ammazed they are not talking to you in order to achieve a quick result. Unless of course the next thing they are going to do is sue and their legal department is grinding through it slowly passing your file from desk to desk as Gen suggests.
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Not to be unsympathetic, but this was pretty much as predicted.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=84...8
I don't think I have anything to add beyond the stuff already in the two threads.
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Not to be unsympathetic, but this was pretty much as predicted. <<
Just my sentiments exactly. It has taken over 150 (some very long) posts in the two threads to get to this point. All for a minor bump up the woman's car's rear!
I don't think I have anything to add beyond the stuff already in the two threads <<
At the risk of prolonging the thread, and knowing that it is not always easy to take good advice, I would suggest to SteveH42 to put a stop on his cheques. Then just wait for the other party to shase him if they want anything from him.
Please Steve, do not reply to this post, - either act on it or just ignore it.
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