Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON

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Thu 2 Sep 2010 00:17
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - skittles

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Not wishing to knock the cops but apparently they are using convert bikers to catch speeders in some forces. They say on the program it is safer then having a marked vehicle trying to catch them

Are they for real?

We can usually see a marked vehicle with its flashing lights and noisy siren and even the unmarked cars have them and although they are harder to spot they still give out a warning they are coming

However to have a motor bike suddenly appearing doing 130mph with no warnings just to catch speeders is in my view insane, whether it is a highly trained police officer or not

Still on the same program, the previous week they indicated there is a gadget on the market now that can get past modern vehicle security, anyone know anything about them?

Why will my Firefox spell checker not work on this site?

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Thu 2 Sep 2010 18:13
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - Westpig

There's a zone in emergency service driving where it's actually safer doing your bit when the public haven't worked things out yet. They are at their most dangerous when they start to react. So an unmarked bike does have its' advantages.

Edited by SteveMegson on 02/09/2010 at 18:27

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Thu 2 Sep 2010 19:43
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - skittles

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I can understand this and maybe on motorways and other clearways it might be an argument that could carry some weight.

But down country roads, on a motorcycle?

The riders of these motorcycles are just police officers, not God. They might be able to read the road better then many of use and to react slightly quicker too, but they can not predict what will happen round the next bend, whether someone, quite legitimately, will pull out to overtake or from a junction, not expecting a motorcycle doing 130mph+, that is the whole point of trying to stop the motorcyclists in the first place. Police drivers are not immune from having accidents, even in marked cars

Edited by skittles on 02/09/2010 at 19:44

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Thu 2 Sep 2010 20:05
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - Westpig
not expecting a motorcycle doing 130mph+, that is the whole point of trying to stop the motorcyclists in the first place.

I can see your point.....but....similar principles apply to car driving as they do bike riding, anything over about 60mph and the public don't notice you until you are right upon them, they are not able to react in time as their awareness and vision is not generally up to it, so you have to drive/ride accordingly, so whether or not it was an unmarked bike with a dipped headlamp on..or a great big 'jam sandwich' with flashing blue lamps, alternate flashing headlamps and sirens going...it often makes no difference if the speed is high enough.

This leads me on to how 130mph cannot be automatically dangerous...if it was, police officers/paramedics/fire officers in cars... wouldn't be allowed to do it, would they... ?

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Thu 2 Sep 2010 20:49
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - Devolution

Also be aware that the use of the covert biker as demonstrated was a result of a pre planned operation, which is briefed and risked assessed beforehand; it would have been over a set stretch(es) of road that does attract bikers who do push to the extremes (there are plenty of these in Sussex and Derbyshire with high biker fatality rates.)

The use of such a covert biker is not to carry out a pursuit, chase or attempt to stop (by displaying blues & twos) but simply to reach a group of riders, capture the evidence, radio through to the stop party ahead as required and then drop back, rinse & repeat, thereby limiting the amount of time that even the officer would need to be travelling at these speeds. Yes it can be dangerous of course, but the idea is that helping reign in the bikers' behaviour early on might prevent incidents later in the day - whereas the officer might only peak at those speeds for evidence capture, the bikers in question may have continued to drive like that for the rest of the day on roads where there are more hazards, ie. side roads.

With reference to Westpigs first post, it is sometimes better to be unseen to make safer progress or to "see more". For example tearing down a motorway slip road on B&T in an unmarked car often causes people to panic, and in order to let you in they suddenly change lanes forgetting all about mirrors and indicators. Often far better to switch off momentarily, join a safe gap without suprising other drivers, move to lane 3 and then switch on again to make progress.

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Fri 3 Sep 2010 12:42
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - skittles

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"This leads me on to how 130mph cannot be automatically dangerous...if it was, police officers/paramedics/fire officers in cars... wouldn't be allowed to do it, would they... ?"



The police along with other agencies tell use this. People loose their licences and face getting sent to jail for doing this sort of speed on deserted motorways.

It was suddenly happens in front of you, what if you have a blow out, what if a stag runs across the road, what if are endless. I know that emergency vehicles need to get to places rapidly and that is why they have lights, sirens and are painted so destructively, Most people seem to be able to spot an emergency vehicle and make way. They cant for a covert biker

And if it is safe to do 135mph down that stretch of road, why waste police resources stopping people

Also be aware that the use of the covert biker as demonstrated was a result of a pre planned operation, which is briefed and risked assessed beforehand; it would have been over a set stretch(es) of road that does attract bikers who do push to the extremes (there are plenty of these in Sussex and Derbyshire with high biker fatality rates.)

I have looked at the footage from the bike again on iplayer and what you have is an ordinary road, with cars and gateways and junctions. Just as the bike cop reaches 135mph he passes two junctions, one to his left and a little further on one to his right.

What if someone pulled out not seeing a bike doing 135mph, what if it was a lorry or a tractor with a trailer, then there is really nowhere to go or someone decides to overtake another car, just as mr policeman arrives in a blink of an eye,

I can understand the reasons the police are dong this, but is this a correct way

Surely their are other technologies, radar and cameras and such. Does Mr Plod have to catch them doing 130, if he is doing 60ish and the biker overtakes him at 85 is that not enough evidence

I am no expert so might be talking bull, but it seems a very strange tactic to me, a unsafe one

Edited by skittles on 03/09/2010 at 12:43

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Wed 8 Sep 2010 14:06
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - Problem_Polo :-/

I too am no expert, but you don't really need to be on this one, it's a no-brainer. There is nil justification for unmarked Police vehicles to be doing these speeds on roads which are being used by the public. Police drivers, whilst undoubtably talented, are not untouchable, and there have been many who have come unstuck. How often do we read about accidents involving emergency vehicles, slamming into innocent motorists at junctions or calving pedestrians in two as they cross the road, due to the 'highly trained' driver pushing it too hard and losing it just for a split second. It is unsafe and unjustified, and only encourages the drivers, who after all are only human, to push the limits of their abilites too far. On these same TV programmes we frequently see frustrated traffic Police calling off a chase as it is too dangerous - how on earth do the same Police then justify doing this?!! If these people are to be caught, as indeed they should be, then it ought to be done with air units or static traps, not by gunghoe biker cops endangering everybody else on the roads!!

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Thu 9 Sep 2010 16:55
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - Westpig
The police along with other agencies tell us this. People lose their licences and face getting sent to jail for doing this sort of speed on deserted motorways.

That's my point. Anyone in that situation needs to get a decent lawyer. If they are done just for speeding, then fair enough, they've broken the law. If they're done for dangerous driving and there is clear evidence of this from whatever the situation was, then fair enough. If they're done for dangerous driving, just because of the speed alone, then they are hard done by..because it cannot be so if others are permitted to do it.

The dumbing down of some of our systems is encouraging people and that includes the courts to think some of these things are automatically dreadful crimes..how can this be so? Biker gets jailed for 28 days for doing 120mph up a dual carriageway..then 15 minutes later a paramedic does the same speed up the same road on his bike and that's fine?

That's not to say that some excess speed offences are truly dangerous and do need harsh sentences. Indiviudal circs need to be looked at, not blanket presumptions.

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Wed 8 Sep 2010 13:49
Cars Cops and Criminals - BBC 1 MON - Problem_Polo :-/

...130mph is surely 'automotically dangerous' in any situation where you are overtaking other vehicles; even a relatively safe driver checking their mirrors has no reason to presume that the headlight they see some distance away is steaming up at that sort of speed, it's not always immediately obvious what soembody's speed is in the mirror on a m-way. At least with a 'hi-vis' police vehicle even if it is a good distance away you're likely to stay where you are as you know that it will be attempting to get past pretty soon. Motorbikes are the least visible vehicle to be using on a motorway and if you've no 'blues and twos' on then I'd say that, frankly, you'd have to have a deathwish. Some drivers have a particular dislike of bikers - often with pretty good reason - and some of the more confrontational element just might be tempted to move out and get in the way as a misguided protest, not realising that it is an emergency vehicle.... Still safe now??

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