Hi All,
I am having an issue with fellow drivers thinking I have my full beam on when I don't...
This happens on one road in particular, one with frequent gradient changes. When approaching the brow of a hill, for example, I can tell that my dipped headlights are shining in the eyes of oncoming drivers, but there isn't a lot I can do about this. Frequently, oncoming cars have flashed to alert me and occaisonally cars I am behind have pulled over to let me overtake, making me look particularly agressive when I am more like the complete opposite!
Has anyone else had this kind of problem?
Cheers.
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without wanting to state the obvious, but are your headlights set too high?
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Perhaps your headlamps are set too high.
Perhaps you have got your fog lamps on.
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Thanks guys.
The switch to adjust the height of the beam doesn't appear to work, it could be that it is set too high and that I have been unable to change it. I'll look into it.
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The switch to adjust the height should be in the highest position (normally marked "0"), then adjust it downwards if you are carrying a heavy load or towing something large. i.e. if you've got enough of a load at the back to pull the front end of the car towards the sky.
With no load it is impossible to set the beam too high with the dash adjuster, it simply takes a normal height beam and adjusts it *downwards*.
Therefore, first things first, get your standard beam height checked.
And then fix your adjuster if the loading comments apply to you.
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I often notice this with my own and other cars' headlights.
I think "dip" is now a lot higher than it used to be. In the old days "dip" had to point down at the road 25 yards ahead. Now it just means slightly lower than full beam, but still capable of dazzling when you go over small rises.
You notice it if you ever drive an old car - dipped headlights are useless.
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My car has HID lights and I do notice that occasionally people flash me, although the beams are definitely set correctly, and the edge of the beam is very clearly defined - no "scatter". The lights self-adjust every time they are turned on.
I've assumed it's just that that some people find the brightness not to their liking, or maybe they are trying to make up for the inadequacy of their own lights :-)
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I've assumed it's just that that some people find the brightness not to their liking
What - that they're being dazzled by your lights?
or maybe they are trying to make up for the inadequacy of their own lights :-)
So you think it's their fault that you dazzle them? Why the "smiley"?
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I've used a smiley in this case to show that the preceding words were said in jest. That's the general context of how I use it, and understand it's usage to be.
As previously stated, my lights are fine, and are properly adjusted, which is more than you can say for those people who deliberately dazzle another driver who is driving towards one by flashing them.
Other people's often momentarily dazzle me, especially on bends, but I get by without flashing them. Slow down and avert eyes. Then carry on as before. That's really all it takes. Anything else is an over-reaction and probably indicates the early onset of road rage.
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Agree with you Smokie. Some drivers seem to take a delight in flashing other drivers at night. Even if you are dazzled it does not help the situation to dazzle the other driver in retaliation.
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"A quick "flash" ...is informative"
Yes. Just like a "quick toot" it often informs me that the driver is impatient, intolerant or incompetent. Not always, I hasten to add.
One more time, more slowly so you understand. My lights are HID. They are bright. They are well adjusted. You can clearly see the cut off and there is no scatter.
The Omega was the same. The only instance where the beam might go in someone's eyes are the same as for a standard light - bends and cambers. In normal conditions I am 100% certain that they are not shining into people's eyes. Yet I still occasionally get flashed.
Maybe it's just someone who recognises me, "informing" me that they are saying hi. Maybe it's a local vigilante, "informing" me that he thinks I am travelling too fast. Maybe it's someone "informing" his mate in the car in front that they have passed their turn. Maybe it's just the local flasher. Maybe it's someone travelling over bumpy road, and not flashing at all. So, as a means of informing it's pretty unreliable.
Maybe that's why the HC doesn't promote flashing for "informing", except for informing that you are there. "Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users". HC section 110. As you correctly surmised above, "It seems to me that there are at least two drivers in the UK who take no heed"
I'm sure you will remember the apoplexy in previous threads over how LED brake lights blinded some people. IMO some people have a low tolerance to brightness and maybe are the same people that flash. I don't know.
15 Feb - I'm not sure what happened here, I actually wrote the above post but it has FT as the owner. Maybe my fat fingers edited an FT post rather than creating one of my own - which as a Mod I can do. My apologies to FT for whatever I may have deleted - this was not deliberate. Smokie
Edited by smokie on 15/02/2010 at 20:04
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"then all drivers would suffer similarly. They don't."
How do you know? Try asking a few drivers -"have you ever been dazzled by someone flashing their headlights at you at night". Have just asked an albeit limited survey of 4 people who all answered in the affirmative.
Some flashing of headlights might be classed as an attempt to be informative. A lot of the time it is aggressive. It is nearly always unnecessary.
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"then all drivers would suffer similarly. They don't." How do you know? Try asking a few drivers -"have you ever been dazzled by someone flashing their headlights at you at night".
Come come, you are clutching at straws. The question should be "Are you constantly being dazzled by drivers flashing their lights at you at night". "Have you ever" is somewhat different to the OP, and indeed your first post in this thread.
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Slightly OT perhaps, but how do auto leveling headlights work? Presumably they always strive to be parallel to the road rather than, as the name implies, level?
FTF
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I tend to agree with FT, if I was being flashed a lot of times when driving at night on "dipped" headlights that would indicate to me that there was something wrong with the adjustment of the my headlights, either one (quite common these days) or both lights being too high...
The fact I'm not would seem to say my lights are ok!
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On the subject of xenons & dazzle (or otherwise) - I'm rarely, if ever dazzled by them - 'proper' installations have excellent cut-off, pattern defintion & automatic load-range-adjust, so little light 'spray' - unlike the ersatz variety affixed P-reg Vectras that fit high output bulbs in 15 year old & crumbly low quality reflectors - the scatter,dazzle & lack of range adjust-for-load makes them appalling for unlucky oncoming drivers most of the time.
Even the older car with halogen lights in dirty, badly aligned reflectors hurt my eyes more than any pukka xenon set-up.
Only wish my current car had 'em!
Edited by woodbines on 11/02/2010 at 13:33
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If I ever feel the need to flash someone at night I always use my front fog lights. On my car they are in the main light cluster so it is fairly obvious if I do this that it's a signal of some sort. But it does not dazzle like flashing full beam.
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It annoys me when someone coming the other direction starts flashing their lights to prompt you to dip yours before they've even directly seen you. By that I mean other motorists who approach from a blind bend or any other senario when you're not actually face to face with them yet.
I know when it's time to dip my lights without being prompted, especially when they have the audacity to not dip their own headlights until face to face with them.
Rant over.
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It annoys me when someone coming the other direction starts flashing their lights to prompt you to dip yours before they've even directly seen you. By that I mean other motorists who approach from a blind bend or any other senario when you're not actually face to face with them yet.
I freely admit to doing that, as I've come across far too many motorists who, having engaged their main beam, disengage their brain and eyes and come round corners or over hills with their full beam on, having not bothered to look ahead to see that there is a car coming the other way...
Rant over.
Ditto! ;)
Edited by b308 on 11/02/2010 at 15:35
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Perhaps it's to increase their visibilityand make it easier for you to anticipate their coming. It's easier to notice a changing light than a steady one.
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Thats why I do it, FT, as you say its easier to see.
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As others have said, get your lights adjusted, why ask?
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I have this all the time, in every car my family owns - its just ignorant fools who dont understand how headlights are set up. Certainly the very latest cars seem to have captured the power of the sun for headlights, but they only dazzle for a few seconds at certain angles.
Over the brow of a hill, an oncoming car will momentarily dazzle you, its a fact of life - and when people flash me, I flash back :-)
Im afraid the general public are simply quite stupid at times and one must simply put up with this.
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I think you're right stu. My headlights don't appear to need adjusting, and I only get flashed on this one (undulating) rural road in particular.
What's ironic is when I get flashed by an oncoming driver when we are in fact both dazzling each other at the brow of a hill!
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How do you know they are flashing? Could it be that, on occasion, you too are mistaking the natural glare of their headlights for a flash?
I know it's nearly fooled me on occasion.
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fact of life - and when people flash me I flash back :-) Im afraid the general public are simply quite stupid at times
Hm. I see your point.
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>> fact of life - and when people flash me I flash back :-) >> >> Im afraid the general public are simply quite stupid at times Hm. I see your point.
I know stu used the smiley - not sure if there is an implied one in FT's post - but I don't see anything wrong in pointing out to the other driver that in fact your lights aren't on full beam, and a quick return flash would seem to be a reasonable way of doing it.
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but I don't see anything wrong in pointing out to the other driver that in fact your lights aren't on full beam, and a quick return flash would seem to be a reasonable way of doing it. >>
Focus - the point is that Stu may be falling in to the same trap as the people who flash at the OP. In other words, see primeradriver's post at Thu 11 Feb 10 16:34
You could get in to an endless loop this way. Stu flashes because he "thinks" the other driver flashed at him, the other driver flashes back because he is outraged that Stu flashed at him, Stu flashes back, the other driver ... etc. etc.
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Focus - the point is that Stu may be falling in to the same trap as the people who flash at the OP. In other words see primeradriver's post at Thu 11 Feb 10 16:34
I read primeradriver's post, and I don't think that's likely at all. I can understand thinking that someone's lights are on full when they aren't, but I don't believe it's easy to get the effect of someone flashing their lights at you other than by the driver flashing their lights.
How do you (or primeradriver) envisage that happening?
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How do you (or primeradriver) envisage that happening? >>
See the first posts by Old Navy and Honestjohn in this thread:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=71342&...f
I have seen it happening for a few years now, since the introduction of self-levelling xenons.
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See the first posts by Old Navy and Honestjohn in this thread: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=71342&...f
They're talking about dipped being mistaken for full beam, not situations where it looks like someone has flashed when they haven't.
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They're talking about dipped being mistaken for full beam not situations where it looks like someone has flashed when they haven't.
I've seen, when cars go over bumps in the road, some lights that look out of the corner of your eye as if you have been flashed.
It's an optical illusion that seems more common with newer cars than older ones. All I was saying really though is that if you accept the possibility that someone might mistakenly think you've flashed them, or left full beam on too long, it is not then unreasonable to also accept that you may fall into the same trap -- I doubt many drivers get a kick out of reacting without what they see as just cause.
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>> They're talking about dipped being mistaken for full beam not situations where it looks like >> someone has flashed when they haven't. I've seen when cars go over bumps in the road some lights that look out of the corner of your eye as if you have been flashed.
Ok, personally I don't think that's likely, but it sounds possible. If so, then the worst that can happen is:
Other driver: on dipped, goes over bump in the road
You: on dipped, think (incorrectly) that other driver has flashed to encourage you to dip your lights, so you flash them back to show that you are on dipped
Other driver: (also on dipped) sees you flashing them, so flashes back to show that they are already dipped
You: realises that either you were mistaken and the other driver didn't flash you, or they have now flashed you for no obvious reason so they might be a bit odd and best not to antagonise them.
End of situation - no endless loop (not suggested by you pd).
On the other hand, in the 'normal' case where you flash someone who has actually flashed you, they realise that you aren't driving around on full beam. If you didn't flash them, I suspect they would get quite annoyed at seeing you continuing to drive towards them on what they think is full beam, perhaps even switching to full beam 'to teach you a lesson' resulting in a potentially dangerous situation.
Phew. It's a big subject this :-)
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They're talking about dipped being mistaken for full beam, >>
1. in other words, what the title of this thread says.
situations where it looks like someone has flashed when they haven't. >>
2. in response to 1, people may be really "flashing" at you, or you may imagine that they flashed at you when in fact they have not done so at all.
3. Oh well, I give up, as same difference confusion abounds.
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3. Oh well I give up as same difference confusion abounds.
not here :-)
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My experience with my Mondeo ties in with your symptoms and the advice given above.
For the first few weeks I was finding that people were always flashing me and eventually (one night when I had the window open) a guy shouted at me to turn my lights down, but when I stood in front of the car they didn't look any different to other cars (because I wasn't taking into account the angle of the light against the driver's view).
I starting noticing that when driving on a dual carriageway I was lighting up signs long before the cars in front of me were. The headlights were set correctly for the weight in the car but I ended up putting them on the lowest setting (the setting for a fully loaded car) and that seemed to solve the problem.
However, they may well be set too low now, and if they aren't I don't have any room to dip them further if I need to (with more load in the back).
Also, I will need to go in for a service in March. I am not sure if the dealership will charge me to re-adjust them then, whereas if I had taken it back immediately I could have shown that it was that way when I bought the car.
This is the thread I started at the time...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=80090
Edited by SteelSpark on 11/02/2010 at 17:38
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It's not so much confusion as downright warfare.
Road humps all over the place mean - guess what? - when a car goes over them, the lights go up and down. Usually right into someone's eyes. Brilliant. Whoops, sorry mate, I thought you were flashing me, so I turned across your path. Nasty dent, that...
10% of headlights are out of adjustment and 20% of cars have defective lighting. 30% of drivers have defective brains and don't know which lights are on or when (or even how) to switch them on or off. Probably.
Car manufacturers pig-headedly go their own way when it comes to warning lights on the dashboard (colour, size and general visibility of tell-tale light; one for sidelights, one for headlights, one for main beam, maybe all three...) Permanently illuminated instrument lighting fools a lot of the (30% aforementioned) drivers into thinking their lights are on when they're off. Even more pig-headed is the lack of uniformity of minor controls: with the Lucas (?) single stalk going back at least 40 years, the position of the stalk indicated dip or main beam and could be by touch; on Fords and Vauxhalls amongst others, it's pull to flash, pull further to toggle from dip to main and the stalk "returns to zero" so it is quite easy to drive on main beam without realising it (tiny pale blue warning light - see earlier...)
And now with the untold joy of DRLs and drivers who'll drive merrily on through a King Lear storm with DRLs on at the front and nowt at back. Drivers and manufacturers equally blameworthy, thinking they're oh-so-trendy and clever to be showing lights which aren't even a legal requirement for another year.
I just drive with my eyes shut, it saves so-o-o-o much hassle...
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HID=bad. Inevitably any crest will cause the dipped beam to dazzle oncoming drivers, even if the "self-levelling" lights don't nod constantly like the ones that followed me for miles last night.
Tungsten or halogen bulbs that emitted so much light would be illegal, so too should the HIDs be.
Decent halogens are good enough - anything more is just an arms race.
All in my opinion of course.
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I find the worst lights that dazzle are (in order): Chav cars with the HID conversions that haven't been done properly (meaning, they didn't change the lenses), Range Rovers with HID lights; BMWs with HID lights, Motor bikes with HID lights, Ford Transit Vans, Police cars that put all their flashing lights on a completely dark road, blinding everyone in sight and ruining night vision.
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the worst lights that dazzle are (in order)
You forgot the rotating yellow beacons on abnormal loads and their escort vehicles, usually on dark, damp motorways in the winter when I've run out of washer fluid ;-)
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Agree with Mr Dugong, HID gives too much light & the self levelling is not up to the job.
On the bike in London tonight was in front of a BMW of some sort. His HID lights cast a very sharply defined beam onto the Berlingo in front. The top of the area illuminted constantly hunted from below number plate to middle of rear window as the s/l tried and failed to cope with surface undulations and a an accelerate/brake/accelerate/brake driving style.
Unless he was flashing me for "holding up the cars"!
Edited by Bromptonaut on 12/02/2010 at 19:44
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>>Tungsten or halogen bulbs that emitted so much light would be illegal, so too should the HIDs be.<<
Yes,the maximum legal wattage has become irrelevant with the advent of more efficient lighting,it should now be based on output.Also,on the other hand why do some people insist on driving about on sidelights which,from the front,are easily lost amongst the general plethora of lighting?Perhaps saving electricity....
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...Fords and Vauxhalls amongst others, it's pull to flash, pull further to toggle from dip to main and the stalk "returns to zero" so it is quite easy to drive on main beam without realising it...
Wondered why the CC3 is sometimes on main beam when I don't want it to be.
It's a relief to find the cause is not entirely due to pilot error. :)
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...Fords and Vauxhalls amongst others it's pull to flash pull further to toggle from dip to main and the stalk "returns to zero" so it is quite easy to drive on main beam without realising it...
The main beam light on the dash is usually a good hint! Still fog light warnings on the dash are ignored. :)
Edited by Old Navy on 13/02/2010 at 10:20
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...Fords and Vauxhalls amongst others it's pull to flash pull further to toggle from dip to main and the stalk "returns to zero" so it is quite easy to drive on main beam without realising it...
My Vectra defaults to dipped beam the each time the lights are switched on. Also with Vauxhalls, it's pull toward you to flash or to put on dipped beam, but push away from you to put onto high beam. With my Vectra you can also alternate between high and dipped beam by pushing the stalk away from you.
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In my experience a lot of cars (not all) have incorrectly adjusted headlights, with at least one of their dipped lights set too high. I thought the MOT test was supposed to weed those out. Perhaps some owners set their lights high on purpose to compensate for poor eyesight.
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Motorist are just people in cars, you get the considerate ones and then you get the idiots.
Ihave noted a LOT of cars around with only one headlicght and quite a few with badly adjusted lights.
signs of the times i guess.
Today in town a couple were crossing the road in front of me. The guy deliberately slowed down to block the road and mouth obscenities at me.
SO I ran him over--
only joking..
There is a lot of road rage about.
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It is quite easy to drive on main beam without realising it... /The main beam light on the dash is usually a good hint...
This is my point: the main beam light is NOT a good hint, as it is dim, small and hard to see. A driver being able to FEEL for the position of a minor control without taking eyes off the road (on or off, left or right, side or dip, dip or main, 2nd gear or 4th) should be instinctive and a universal standard.
On my current car (Mk III Focus estate) the hazard light switch has a soft touch and no internal red flashing light. Indicator and main beam tell tale lights are well shrouded and dim. The dashboard lights are permanently lit. To switch from main beam to dip requires a double pull of the stalk and the position of the stalk communicates nothing to me. The foglights are on a pull-pull on the main lighting switch, set quite low down, requiring me to take a hand off the wheel and I cannot switch on rear foglights without the front ones. I have one reversing light which does not cover the ground area particularly well and only on one side of the car. There is only one foglight, so if the bulb goes I will not have one left. Front and rear foglight warning lights are in the instrument bezel, well away from the switch. In all of these aspects the design is rubbish compared to the Mark III Escort of 25 years ago.
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Not noticing the main beam light is either poor observation or poor car design.
On the Primera I have the position of the stalk is very obvious -- and as I have a tendency to keep my hand hovering over it when travelling in a straight line I'll notice pretty quickly if it's forward. This is shared on the Daewoo we currently have as a second car, and on the previous vehicles I've owned.
I agree that on some cars the main beam light isn't bright enough -- certainly seems to be the case on the Daewoo where it's a dark blue colour and quite dim. However on the Primera it's impossible to miss -- light blue and very bright, and near the centre of the speedo so if anything it shines in your eyes the second you look down.
I'm not personally a fan of having the main light switch on the dashboard under the steering wheel. I want it to hand, and the position on VAG/Ford/Vaux has always irritated me when I've driven them. IMO it should be on the stalk, no ifs no buts. This is one area where the Daewoo, and Korean cars in general have it all wrong as well -- foglight switch on the dash -- bad bad bad. On the stalk where I can find it please!!!
I quite agree about the generally bad ergonomics of a lot of cars. Apart from the aforementioned, as you say the gearbox should inform by feel which gear you're in. The indicators should be on the right, so I can retain control whilst changing gear. The hazards should be where they are on Fords (on the steering column), NOT on the centre console where it takes me half a second to locate them by feel when the motorway traffic suddenly becomes congested. There should be two fogs and two reverse lights. All cars should have a clutch footrest. Bonnet latch should be on the driver's side not the bloomin' passenger's.
Problem is it's impossible to find a car designed properly (OK, to my tastes). They're far too interested in making the dashboard out of soft plastics that wear more quickly anyway, and loading 342 features onto one menu system which you can't look at safely while driving.
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It is quite easy to drive on main beam without realising it... /The main beam light on the dash is usually a good hint... This is my point: the main beam light is NOT a good hint as it is dim
I suspect that the only reason its dim is because the driver is looking through the windscreen at Blackpool Illuminations ahead of him... quite frankly if you need to have a "bright" full beam warning light on your dash I don't feel you should be driving, at least not until you've had your eyes tested!
(just using your post, B, not directed at you in any way! ;) )
Edited by b308 on 14/02/2010 at 08:08
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I bought a car many years ago and when driving in the dark,a lot of cars were flashing me-I looked in the hand book and found it had a "dipped beam warning light".Thought I'd solved it but was still being flashed.Turned out that one of it's previous owners had connected up one of the headlights the wrong way round-so that I always had one main beam and one dipped beam.I then swopped the connectors round,so that both lights were operating the same and I set the warning light to the normal UK setting-ie. main beam warning light.And before someone asks about switch position,it was a floor mounted switch and in those days most of my driving was in London so the streets were always lit.
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In my experience a lot of cars (not all) have incorrectly adjusted headlights with at least one of their dipped lights set too high.>>
Local Auto-electricians (who get a lot of referrals to fix headlight aim) say that the most common reason for bad aiming is that people haven't fitted the bulbs correctly - just as some people have extra bright tail lights and very dim brake lights - the twin filament bulb has been fitted wrongly.
And then you have the people who replace a burned out yellow indicator bulb with a white one!
And finally you have those who just can't be bothered to replace any blown bulbs. e.g. Vauxhall Astra I once reported for having no rear lights at all - not even brake lights - but it had very good markings on the side. It said "Police".
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FWIW my car has been in for a service today and I explicitly asked them to check headlamp alignment, which they did, and reported No Problem.
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