In view of the recent flooding, has any Back roomer experience of salvaging a submerged car? Was it possible to get them going again and if so what were the costs and problems involved? I am specifically asking about short duration immersion, not about a vehicle that has been underwater for more than a day.
Some quite nice cars must come into this category each year and I wonder if a bit of patience and TLC could resurrect what an Insurance company might have written-off.
Has anyone actually done this?
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With modern ECUs etc.... is it worth the risk?
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rtj70
It depends on the cost, if the car is cheap, then if all that needs to be changed is the ECU, the answer could be 'yes'
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It depends on the cost, if the car is cheap, then if all that needs to be changed is the ECU
But a modern car has many ECUs. The total cost for them could be thousands. Then replacing all the wiring.... is it worth the risk?
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My SiL had this happen about twenty years ago to an Ital, she left the car in a car park when the river running alongside burst it's banks. They got the car going again, but the upholstery never really dried out and the seats had to be covered in plastic. The horrible damp smell remained too. They were fairly skint at the time and had to keep the car for about six months, when they finally got another the Ital was scrapped as it was completely unsellable.
Like rtj70 said, with modern electronics a submerged car would probably be an instant write off.
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As I understand it, the biggest problem isn't electrics shorting out or water hydraulicking in the engine, it's the hazard of disease from water-borne pathogens. A friend had a 2-year-old Mondeo submerged up to the interior mirror in flood water but otherwise undamaged and the insurance company had written it off for this reason before it got to the recovery yard.
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Its the pathogens that would worry me.
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Its the pathogens that would worry me.
Yes PU, it was Legionnaire's Disease that was mentioned with the Mondeo. This was in Scotland in July '99 or '00, a river flooded the road at night after a summer cloudburst.
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It's all the sewer crap that would concern me, especially if one was putting children in the car afterwards - they sort of lick everything don't they at a certain age !
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Ewww, mine were splashing about in the sea on the East Coast this summer, and I made them go into the first pub toilet we saw and thoroughly wash their hands before they put their fingers anywhere near their mouths. There was a prog on TV showing the frequency with which direct sewer outfalls are brought into use not long before, which may have had something to do with it.
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Over the years I've known a number of colleagues write off company cars in fords (of the river crossing variety) or floods.
Generally it's been because the water has come over the sills and therefore deemed to have damaged the wiring loom, the replacement of this even on fairly new and high-value cars has been considered too costly (e.g Saab 9-5, Saab 9-3 convertible, Mondeo IV Titanium all under 1 year old) and so they were written off.
By contrast, a colleague who 'hydraulicked' (is that a word?) a Renault DCi engine in a ford, 'merely' needed a new engine.
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'hydraulicked' (is that a word?)
A quick Google would suggest not, strangely. I've heard it used several times (hydraulicked, hydraulicking) to describe what happens inside an internal combustion engine when water is sucked in with the inlet charge and the piston attempts to compress it - water clearly not being as compressible as a fuel/air mixture. The usual result is a broken con-rod or holed block (cf. my mate's F reg Astra SRi about 18 years ago, terrible design had the cold air intake facing downwards behind the n/s headlight, he drove through a foot of water and the engine went bang).
Edited by Dave_TD {P} on 23/11/2009 at 23:21
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I once salvaged my FS1E moped after slipping on some black ice and putting it and myself in a brook at the side of the road. I dragged myself and the bike out the murky water and pushed it home. It was a toss up as to whether the bike or me was dripping out the most water. Anyway, after changing into some dry clothes I then started on the bike. A good hose down first to remove the remains of the brook water and slime. Then partially stripped the engine to clean and dry the points, magneto and carb. Off with the cylinder head and barrel, and then with the help of my dad we lifted the back end right up in the air to pour the remains of the brook from the crank housing. Out with the blowtorch to warm the engine to dry it some more, put all back together and it started first kick, after first changing the oil for good measure. Try doing that with a modern bike.
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I had one of those. 1974. Luvverly.
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Presuming fresh water immersion
I would have thought that time was the healer
for the electrics to dry out
Seats and carpets probably better removed
Possibly replaced later
but time costs so the insurance writes off instead
Ps
With respect to general flooding
I am of the opinion that there is a lot of hysteria about sewage in flood waters
It might stink, this does NOT necessarily mean that it is full of sewage, or be dangerous.
But hey its handier to dump everything , claim off the insurance ( or the state ) and replace with nice new stuff. When some of it COULD be salvaged
Rant over
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Dieseldogg you dont think the insurance companies hit them all over with their little hammers and then send them to china do you? :-)
With the system set up by this govt where you have to advise dvla about categorisation as say a cat c then a lot of insurers are now categorising salvage as a u which means its not on the register and is only known to the buyer as being in water
Remember this next time that X5 looks a bargain and the numbers match........
Ive said before but will repeat ,anyone who knowingly buys an ex submerged vehicle needs their bumps felt
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I think I have written in here before about my Fiat 131 and the duckpond. It did that car no harm. Mind it was rusty before it went for a swim.
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quick Google would suggest not, strangely. I've heard it used several times (hydraulicked, hydraulicking) >>
Try with the correct spelling [there is no "c" in it]. :-0
Its the pathogens that would worry me. >>
How has this risk been measured? Have any pathogens been found in "drowned" cars that have proved to be dangerous to human health?
I agree with bell-boy though, I simply would not buy an ex-submerged car unless I knew exactly what damage it had suffered in engineering terms.
Edited by jbif on 24/11/2009 at 09:14
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Containments - would you risk you and yours it to save a few quid.
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Containments - would you risk you and yours it to save a few quid. >>
Eh?
I never buy a smoker's or dog-owner's pre-owned car. IMO, those cars certainly are full of known/proven pathogens, which my body reacts to in a bad way!
Edited by Pugugly on 24/11/2009 at 09:52
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You're right to EH ! Early morning typos !
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I have a nice Altea coming up soon I am sure I can get most of the pooch slobber out of it. You want it jbif?
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I have a nice Altea coming up soon I am sure I can get most of the pooch slobber out of it. You want it jbif? >>
You can't bump me off that easily. You will have to try your "goona in to the bus" trick with your Lancer when you see me on Woodham Lane.
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I shall have to watch out for you two on my daily journeys in my Civic along Woodham Lane....
You don't have an Ibiza going as well as the Altea, I suppose?
sq
Edited by Pugugly on 24/11/2009 at 16:32
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Try with the correct spelling [there is no "c" in it].
Well if there isn't a C there certainly should be; or - if you prefer - if you can Google it with a K, there should be plenty more hits with a C or CK. Unless everyone who uses the (rather doubtful) word is a spelling moron ...
Rant over ..
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Well if there isn't a C there certainly should be; >>
ooops! Thanks for the "rant". You are right, it is the "k" that I should have referred to.
Edited by jbif on 24/11/2009 at 10:50
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Thanks for all the replies, I had not considered the problem of bacteria in the flood water.
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Even if the film of mud covering every surface of every component was sterile, and could be removed, the car would never be the same again and would be stinking electronic and electrical nightmare. Would the inside of the doors, dashboard, heater, and body cavities be cleaned out?
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Saw a lovely 5 series bmw on watchdog that had spent some time under water in the floods in cornwall some time back now the car looked a peach but the customer started to have a few little problems with electrics and took it to bmw who stripped the car and found this slime on the inside of the car bodywork!
This is going to happen again there be more flooding back on the market ( no pun) soon it's fine for spare parts the engines will be full of water and gearbox, diffs ecu been mentioned, plus seats and carpet.
Not worth it really unless as i said for spares unless it's just the rear of the car been under and you "may" have a chance.
Edited by bigtee on 24/11/2009 at 11:02
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Well I have direct experience of this last year in my Accord Tourer.
After driving 350 miles I hit floodwater last year in Northumberland in the dark and rain and drove through through some water which was much deeper than it seemed and which came over the bonnet but managed to keep it going and come out the other side . The engine however had taken in water and hydraulicked . I do not want to hear that sound of breaking metal and smell the steam and hot oil mixture again.....
Result - a write off. A new engine and fitting would be more than the car was worth. I have some pictures of the mangled innards of the engine somewhere when they dismantled it at my local Honda Main Dealer when it was repatriated. There was a lot of grass and plastic muck and rubbish and who knows what else in the flood water which got into the intake and blocked radiator etc.
I got the full value insurance , bought another Accord and sold the Tourer as a write off to my local independent. He put an engine in it from a breakers and gave it to his wife ( but not before trying to sell it back to me) . I still see it and it looks and runs well but I would not be happy to take it back. You never know what other problems there may be, particularly with the electrics .
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You could turn it upside-down and leave it for a week or two to dry out, that might help.
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My father went into a deep river in his early 40's sidevalve Ford V8. The car ended up on its side, almost completely submerged. I don't know how long it took to dry out but he ran it for another year at least.
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I put a MK3 Cortina through some flood water deep enough for it to come in the gear lever gaiter and door bottoms. The only untoward effect was a prop shaft UJ went shortly after. I did take care to remove all soft furnishings and dry it thoroughly but it had no smell after.
Another car had several pints of milk spilt in it one warm summer - now that did pong and I couldn't get rid of the smell.
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Somebody linked - a few months ago - to a virtually new, 100k-worth of Audi on ebay that had been written off by the ins co following a "water incident" and was being sold piece by piece - as it could not be sold whole.
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Sniff
Bell boy
I was using the term "insurance write off" loosely, you understand
cheers
M
Edited by dieseldogg on 24/11/2009 at 16:31
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