NIP Received for Red Light offence. - worriedstacey
Today i have received a notice of intended prosecution as i allegedly contravened a red light. I just wondered if anyone could offer me some advice as to my options. I passed my test in june this year. The letter states that this offence was in august, and i can remember going through an amber as i knew it would be more dangerous to stop on a 40 road than to go through i was commited to carrying on. I completley dispute the fact that it was a red light. I was told by my instructor it is better to go through amber if you feel suddne braking would cause an accident and this is what i did. It was 100% not red.Would it be worth fighting this in court or should i just accept the 3 points and fine? I am now paranoid that ive done it since because this was 2 months ago and i am so worried that my licence will be taken away. would they have told me with this letter? Im so worried and need some advice. Thanks

Edited by Pugugly on 08/10/2009 at 19:13

NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Rattle
Have you already got any points? If not then you're only 3 into 6 away from being banned.

You need to ask them to send photographs and then go from there. Was the road in question correct?

Also why has the NIP only just come through now?
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - worriedstacey
Im not sure why it has only come through now, and the road is correct. I havent got any point yet
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Rattle
You need to go on one of the legal motoring forums about this or wait to for a lawyer on this site to reply but I was although thought they had 14 working days to send out the NIP so when was the post mark dated?

NIP Received for Red Light offence. - worriedstacey
the offence was supposedly on the 18th august, and the letter is dated october 7th?
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Rattle
In that case it clearly wasn't sent out after 14 working days. Just wait for replies on what to do next :).

I am being cautious here because I am not a lawyer and don't want to give you any wrong advice but if it was me given the information you have given me I wouldn't be too worried yet.

Edited by Rattle on 08/10/2009 at 19:46

NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Pugugly
Was the car registered to you or someone else ?

Was the car waiting for registration details to change ?

Have you change address lately ?
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - worriedstacey
The car has been registered to me since july when i purchased it, and no details have been changed.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Rattle
It can take a few weeks for the DVLA to update the details which could explain why they were late sending it out.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Pugugly
You need specific legal advice. You should be able to get a freebie through the CAB. There maybe an issue with the late NIP - but it may be that reasonable diligence was taken by the prosecution authority. That can only be clarified face to face - difficult to advice over a website really.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - oldnotbold
Stacey - when did you received the logbook for your car? DVLA will have sent it to you about two-four weeks after you bought the car, and it may even have a date of printing on it? If not, you could ring DVLA and ask when they sent it.

That will prove when DVLA had the new owner info., and perhaps help you show that the NIP was not delayed by the change of ownership of the car.

Edit - look for "Document ref no" on the V5 form, which I'm pretty sure is the date the new owner was updated by DVLA.

Edited by oldnotbold on 08/10/2009 at 20:52

NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Peter D
On page two on the V5C is a date entry in the Doc Ref Section. Tell me what the that date is. I would inform you that red light camera's are not armed until after the red light has been on for 0.4 of a second and if any axle of your vehicle crossed the sensor close to, or in the white after this tiem then you have committed an offence. Regards Peter
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - richard price
Try this site www.pepipoo.com
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - worriedstacey
i only recieved the log book last week :s
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Pugugly
That'll probably explain the delay in the NIP. Take the NIP to a CAB.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Ben 10
"i can remember going through an amber "

If this is the case, then do you have anything to worry about. The cameras are triggered on red signals. Thus if you are convinced of your action then the camera is faulty.

Check the camera out. Watch for vehicles going through whether on amber or red and see when the camera flashes. If it happens on amber you have a case. If confirmed it goes off on red, then you are in the preverbial do dah.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Armitage Shanks {p}
PU knows way more about this than I do but I would have thought that if there is a delay in the arrival of the NIP, whatever the cause, is not valid. If it arrives within the time limit it is correct and enforceable and it if it is late it is not valid and can be ignored. If the various government agencies involved can't get their act together it is their problem and OP's good luck or not, as the case may be!
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Pugugly
Don't ignore it - if they can show due diligence in tracing you after the change of ownership - you're stuffed.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - jbif
... I would have thought that if there is a delay in the arrival of the NIP, whatever the cause, is not valid. ... >>


I may be wrong, but it is rare to get practicing lawyers/solicitors to give advice on this forum other than to tell you to go and see a lawyer/solicitor.

According to t'internet [which can be wrong]:

www.lawontheweb.co.uk/crimertonip.htm
"If you have not been given the notice within 14 days (ignoring the day of the offence) then they cannot proceed against you unless an exception applies (see below).
Exceptions & Get Outs
d) Failure to comply is no bar where the police could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained the name and address of the accused in time for service of the summons or notice within the 14 day period, or the accused contributed to such failure. [These are our highlights - might apply for example if you drive a hire car, company car or you were not the registered keeper]

www.motordefenceteam.co.uk/knowledge-Guides/n-i-p....m
What if I have not heard anything within 14 days?
Exceptions
3. There is also an exemption where the police could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained the name and address of the accused in time for service of the summons or notice within the 14 day period, or the accused


www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880053_en_2....m
Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (c. 53)
1 Requirement of warning etc. of prosecutions for certain offences
....
(c)
within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was —
.... etc. etc.

2 Requirement of warning etc: supplementary
(3)
Failure to comply with the requirement of section 1(1) of this Act is not a bar to the conviction of the accused in a case where the court is satisfied—
(a)
that neither the name and address of the accused nor the name and address of the registered keeper, if any, could with reasonable diligence have been ascertained in time for a summons or, as the case may be, a complaint to be served or for a notice to be served or sent in compliance with the requirement, or ...


So, as Pugugly says, visit your CAB for legal advice.

Edited by jbif on 09/10/2009 at 12:10

NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Peter D
What is the date in the V5C Log book DocRef date. Last week does mean anything. You need to identify the date of the alleged offence and the DocRef date. Regards Peter
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - worriedstacey
The offence was committed on the 18th august. I received the nip on the 8th october. My logbook arrived on the 26th september. thanx
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Pugugly
That probably explains it. When was the V5 printed ?
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Westpig
if the car was not registered to you when any prosecuting authority wished to send you an NIP within 14 days....then the 14 day rule goes out the window...they just have to show they tried

similarly if you don't receive it within 14 days, if the prosecuting authority can prove it was sent in due time, then it can still be valid e.g. delays with Royal Mail

don't get your hopes up too much on the non compliance of the 14 day rule

i'd echo the advice given before about receiving proper legal advice.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Pugugly
Whatever you do don't not respond to it. Another option is that it went to the previous keeper and that they fingered you. Don't ignore it and hope it will go away.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Peter D
What is the date in the V5C Log book DocRef date on page two. ??? Regards Peter
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Simon
You should be able to request the photgraphs of you commiting the offence. If I remember correctly it has to show the signal being red whilst your car is crossing the line.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - jbif
What is the date in the V5C Log book DocRef date on page two. ??? Regards Peter >>


In reply to Peter D:
Let us hope you are 3rd time lucky and get an answer.


In response to worriedstacy:
"The offence was committed on the 18th august. I received the nip on the 8th october. My logbook arrived on the 26th september. thanx .. " >>


Other information that I should like to know (just curious):

Date of purchase in July 09.
Date the paperwork sent to DVLA to inform them of the change of ownership.
" .. i can remember going through an amber as i knew it would be more dangerous to stop on a 40 road than to go through i was commited to carrying on. I completley dispute the fact that it was a red light. .. " >>

You have a good memory.

NIP Received for Red Light offence. - GroovyMucker
IIRC, amber means "stop" too.

Did you not spot it was amber until too late?
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - Leif
Like you I once got caught by a camera at a junction, but no NIP arrived, so it must have been out of film. That was lucky but I took it as a lesson to learn to stop in time. Amber gives you more than enough time to do so.
NIP Received for Red Light offence. - oldnotbold
Why so long to receive the log book, having bought the car in July?

Seems to me you've lost this fair and square. You'll have to drive perfectly for the rest of your first two years to avoid a 6 pts totting up ban.
 

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