First thing is to establish if they're still in business.
Unanswered emails - rather like an unanswered telephone - do not fill me with confidence.
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I trust you paid the deposit by credit card? If so get the CC company to refund you, and then buy else where. If they are this bad during the sale then you have no hope of any aftersales etc.
Edited by mikeyb on 11/05/2009 at 22:17
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Yes I paid the deposit via CC so might talk to them.
I think I will send this car company an email tomorrow saying that "As they have not replied to my earlier emails and it is now 8 weeks since the car was originally ordered with a quoted delivery time of "4-6 weeks" that I now consider the contract void and will be buying elsewhere"
Do people think this is a reasonable email for me to send?
Still worried re. legal aspect.
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With the best will in the world, emails do go astray. They may have ended up in an inbox that is rarely looked at or some such.
If you have a number, why not try ringing them, or emailing via the 'new business' address - they will always monitor that one.
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Well I have been emailing chasers to the same contact at that company - he received all my earlier emails and responded (back in March) but now nothing.
I have another email address so will pop a note to that one tomorrow to see if anything happens!
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That contact could have left the company so emails going unanswered.
However even if that is the case, it certainly looks, one way or the other, that no one is actively doing anything about your order!!
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That's rather worrying as I'm looking to buy a new car and a Fiesta was on my list.
The father of one of my daughter friends owns a Ford dealership and he said he could have sold twice as many Fiestas as he could get in March. I guess demand will settle down eventually but if the factory has a summer shutdown then that will create further shortages.
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Well popped an email to the email address shown on their website and it came back saying "unable to deliver" which gets me very worried now they have gone bust - at least only deposit to worry about.
There is a 2nd email address hidden on their website so I will try that one and see what happens - not looking good.
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I would immediately do a google search on the brokers' name - see if any news, views, reports are inidicating anything untoward.
You may also get other/alternate email addresses, physical addresses, telephone numbers from that.
Find out the locale in which this company is based & ring the local (county or borough) trading standards & make enquiries about the company - they can be very helpful - you don't have to raise a complaint at this, but they can & will help with any info they have.
I would be much more pro-active at this stage - not be merely waiting around for an email reply!
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Getting my accounts team (where I work) to do a credit check on the company to see if that reveals anything about them.
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It's easy to be wise after the event, but I would have been uneasy about a company I had contact with only by email.
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At the start of March I paid a well known web based broker £300 deposit on a new Ford Fiesta and was told the car would be delivered in "4-6 weeks time" >>
What have you actually got in writing OP?
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OK credit check back and not good reading :(
It shows there payment terms to their suppliers is high but the most worrying is "Risk Factor = Very High with chance of failure 10/1"
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...OK credit check back and not good reading...
John,
Don't think that tells you anything about their present trading position, by which I mean 10.45am this morning.
That's where I would concentrate my efforts, although all the signs are the place has shut.
Contact your card issuer, apart from trying to get a refund, they may tell you if they are still dealing with this company.
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Is the broker still advertising? If so, might be worth informing people who we should be avoiding.
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Far more worrying would be the balance of payment.
At the moment your exposure is £300, with a good chance of getting it back from the CC company.
You tell us they are at risk of financial difficulty.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN THEY ASK YOU FOR A FURTHER £7,000?
Pay them cash??? And then wait for the car to turn up? Don't do this without being certain of your position.
Obviously you cannot break the contract because the company has a poor credit rating. But equally, you don't want your £7,000 to be diverted to paying salaries/the rent and for you to become just another unsecured creditor, likely to get £0.00 back.
Quite possibly well worth paying the balance by credit card, and suffering the 2.5% premium. Or else standing there with the cash at their offices as they hand over the car to you.
Other suggestions?
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Yesterday I asked the bloke what he has in writing.
I'd want to see what was in the contract before I started worrying about being sued for breach of it.
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It's now a requirement for web based companies to offer more than one method of contacting the company.
I'd simply cancel via e-mail with ORDER CANCELLATION as the title. If they don't respond to this there is a problem.
They could sue you, but they can only sue for their losses, if they do offer the £300 to cover this, they will find it difficult to enforce the contract for you to buy the car. Judges don't like unreasonable behaviour by parties attending Court.
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Well no replies to any of my emails so I've sent them one clearly marked "Cancellation of Contract" and told them that they quoted 4-6 weeks delivery and have failed to deliver so they are already in breach of the contract.
I expect I may not get my deposit back - checked their T&C on their website and by cancelling before delivery they might try and claim a further £300 cancellation fee off me - something I would contest in court.
Would like to publish their name but don't think the forum rules permit it.
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A request to them that they return your deposit as they have breached the delivery time would help you establish it a claim to the CC company would be worthwhile!
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I think you need to be sending all this info. by recorded delivery to them, not by email. Only then can you build an evidence trail should you have a) legal issues or b) need to get a refund from the card company.
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Well no replies to any of my emails >>
Do they not have telephone contact details on the web site?
Write to them, special delivery, giving notice cancellation due to their breach of contract. Copy to your credit card company and ask for a refund from the CC company.
Problem solved.
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Do they genuinely not have any phone numbers? You've been asked this several times, along with other pertinent questions, and they've been ignored. Could this be a wind-up?
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Fiesta is currently the best-selling car in the UK.
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When I bought a new Golf last year I did not pay the broker any money. All my dealings were with the VW dealer after first ringing the broker. The broker gets commission from the dealer
This is how you should buy cars, there have been plenty of warnings of giving money to third parties. I would get my money back from the credit card company, cancel the car and play their bluff on the contract which I reckon they have broken.
Drivethedeal and Carfile, who I got my car through, go about things in this way.
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What a truely nasty comment from David Horn - no this is not a wind-up so thank you very much for your unhelpful comments.
Their website does not display an address but I have found it using the credit report I got yesterday so a Special Delivery letter cancelling the contract will be winging its way to them tomorrow morning.
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John - while sympathising with your predicament, I did wonder why you haven't answered my and others' questions about whether the website has a phone number. I hadn't got as far as suspecting a wind-up - just curious.
Hope you sort it out.
F
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I did wonder why you haven't answered my and others' questions about whether the website has a phone number. >>
It would seem that JS has so far dealt with everything by email.
I wonder how the deposit was paid.
Don't E-commerce rules require web sites to publish certain minimum contact details and information?
If this mystery broker was not doing so, alarm bells should have been ringing loud and clear.
Is the mystery broker one on HJ's pages?
If so, has JS informed HJ about his difficulties?
I am curious to know why/how naming this broker could be in breach of site rules. In other recent threads, people have slated Halfords, WH Smith, Boots, Vauxhall, GM, Chrysler, etc. without those names being edited out.
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It would seem that JS has so far dealt with everything by email.
Yes, I would do the same, but would resort to a phone (assuming there was one) if the emails stopped working as in this case.
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Its the first rule of internet shopping to find a UK address and landline that works, if it aint on there you don't part with any cash. No point getting offended. Its all becoming a bit dubious!
Edited by mrsarcasm on 14/05/2009 at 01:33
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Update - sent a letter by Special Delivery this morning telling them the contract was cancelled due to their failure to deliver the car in 4-6 weeks specified.
No joy ringing them - they don't answer!
Had an email (finally) from the salesman just before lunchtime now telling me that "yes my car was still on order" but "it will be around mid-June before it comes"
What a joke! They originally say 4-6 weeks now it looks like 13-14 weeks if I'm lucky.
Glad to have walked away from the deal - even if I do loose my deposit.
I would name and shame them but it seems the moderators on this forum will remove it - there name was in my first post and a moderator removed that - don't know why - surely people should know who this company is?
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I would name and shame
You may know what you say is true, however we don't.
See www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=27804 for full clarification.
DD.
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snip
The name and shame policy has been made clear to you from the first post that you made - don't do it again please or we'll disable your account
Edited by Pugugly on 14/05/2009 at 17:17
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Interesting that they don't list their office/regd office info anywhere on the site, which contravenes the regulations, as far as I know.
A whois on Nominet (UK domain register) reveals an address in Gloucestershire.
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Their address is included on their terms & conditions page.
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I have just rung the 0845 number on the homepage, and it was answered within three rings.
(Edited to add, OP posted the link to a (presumably his) broker, which will no doubt have been edited out by the time some read this later on. But it does seem like a rather unlikely story he has come up with. I wonder whether he works for a competitor.)
Edited by Mapmaker on 14/05/2009 at 16:28
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Modey has modeyated - use that PM button we gave you wisely young bb !
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that PM button we gave you
Where's mine? I want one too. Why haven't I got one? Give me my PM button right now. So that I can find out what it is.
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Hope you read the terms and conditions before you cancelled. It is likely the terms specify something like "time is not of the essence" so that late delivery cannot be used to walk away from the contract.
BIG
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Certainly didn't bother to read them here did he ?
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I'm not sure I'd use a website that states:
Historically manufacturers tend to introduce price increases around the first part of the New Year. We would strongly advise our customers to place their orders early to protect themselves from any potential price increases and to ensure an early 2009 registered delivery.
Extracts from the contract:
12. Cancellation of Orders
12.1 After signing and returning the purchase order form you may not cancel the order without penalty (unless the Vehicle delivered does not meet the specifications detailed in the purchase order form)
12.2 If you cancel your order before delivery of the Vehicle you will forfeit your deposit. You further acknowledge that the Company will in such circumstances (where the Company is unable to return the Vehicle to the supplier without penalty) incur increased administration and storage costs. You therefore agree to pay the Company's reasonable administration and storage costs up to a maximum figure of £1,000.00. If the Company's supplier charges an additional cancellation fee this will also be payable by you.
12.3 If you cancel your order on the date of delivery (by which time the Company will have purchased the Vehicle from its supplier) you agree to pay the Company's reasonable administration and storage charges limited to a maximum of £5,000.00.
12.4 In the event that the Company can source an alternative purchaser for the Vehicle our reasonable administration and storage charges will be limited to a maximum of £1,000.00.
12.5 By virtue of The Consumer Protection Distance Selling Regulations 2000 you have right to cancel this agreement with us at any time up to the close of business on the seventh working day which, for the avoidance of doubt, shall commence on the day after the day on which the Vehicle is delivered to you.
12.6 If you wish to cancel the Contract you must immediately write to us [edited out] In the event that the agreement is cancelled by you, in accordance with our terms and conditions after the vehicle is delivered to you and in the event of us having to collect the Vehicle from you we will charge you the sum of £300 in relation to our administrative costs and the costs incurred by us in recovering the Vehicle from you.
12.7 When the Vehicle is collected from you, you must provide us with all keys, registration documentation, optional extras, equipment accessories and all other documentation and paperwork supplied with the Vehicle.
Edited by Mapmaker on 14/05/2009 at 19:05
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...Certainly didn't bother to read them here did he ?...
The OP seemed more concerned with breaking a contract than losing his deposit or getting the car, which seemed odd.
Looking at the contract conditions above suggests to me he had read them.
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Got it in one Brit...
11.1 The Company will make every effort to deliver the Vehicle on the delivery date specified in the purchase order form. However, delays will occasionally occur and time shall not be of the essence...
I'm not sure what the big drama is to be honest. Cars, especially popular ones like a Fiesta get delays all the time. Looking at the site, I saw a phone number, e-mail address and registered office. Naturally the lack of feedback is worrisome, but I find that most companies seem to be lax in responding to e-mails. Keep trying the phone. I guess it's too late now, but aren't you possibly setting yourself up for a fall whereby you cancel this order, lose the deposit, and then end up waiting 12 weeks for a new car with another company?
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