I find this fascination with Alfas a bit odd. I've known a few owners who've been (secretly - but not so secretly..) hugely disappointed with them. They didn't confer the petrolhead gravitas, or the 'pure' driving responses - as only the Italians know how apparently (aaahh..yawn...) & were appallinlgy unreliable & irritating. In fact the only thing more irritating is the fawning reverence they're held in by the motoristas. Look back over any review of any Alfa - the only plus point seems to be is that they look nice (although taste is individual of course..) & the reviewer seems to hark back to some mystical time when they were young & young women swooned at the mention of the name - although I've never met a woman who even vaguely recognised the name.
All in all then. more of a fashion-victim car & vastly over-hyped . Buy yourself a nice BMW coupe with a straight-6 petrol engine or a Ford Focus.
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Have you driven Alfas and loved the experience, Humph? I ask because if not, Woodbines and his friends could well be right - backed up as he says by published road tests. If yes, then Alfas suit you and of course you want one. (W, if I've wrongly assumed you're male, apologies!)
But if you do, maybe save the money you're not going to spend on replacing Betsy the Ford, and get one as a fun car. I thought about it, but went for a BMW Z3 which has so far been terrific - but I know where you're coming from even though chartered accountants like me aren't supposed to have fun cars!
I'm not sure that Alfas were put into this world to be used as business hacks - not least as the 159 Sportback looks as if it has less carrying capacity than a Focus estate, never mind a Mondeo. Someone will have the stats and I may be wrong there, but the tapered roofline owes more to style than boring old practicality.
I'm sure you'll go and drive one or two Alfas, and look forward to you telling us about it.
Final thought - persuade SWMBO to have one instead of her Ka. Is she a car enthusiast too?
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Probably a nice car to own in larger engined form, would be a shame to have a car that looks as good as this and no go.
Undeniably good looking though thats in the beholders eye, and possibly assumed to be handsome because they don't look the same as all the others, though i'm really not taken with the looks of other Alfa's eg the Brera/Mito/most of the new ones, look like creatures that crawled from under a stone and grew after coming into contact with toxic waste.
Not sure if these would suit your recent normal purchase routine Humph, where you get a 3ish year old car for a very good price and run it into the ground and you seem to do well, probably as economical reliable motoring as its possible to get given your high mileage.
I'm not so sure that i'd want one of these out of warranty, HJ's CbyC only has a few lines on these and the few there don't make good reading, the 1.9D being a lottery by the sounds of it.
I have a feeling you've been bitten by the performance bug, ISTR someone waxing lyrical over the enjoyment of having a free revving torquey petrol again, maybe there could be more robust but still attractive vehicles you could buy to feed that thirst?
Maybe along the lines of Legacy estate/Outback, or are you fed up to the back teeth with seeing cloned cars...i am.
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Thing is, I know it would almost certainly be a triumph of aesthetics over practicaliities. A heart over head thing. I can't for one moment rationalise this. It's more of an itch really.
For many years I have travelled to Italy on business. Very occasionally I have had an upgrade hire car which has been an Alfa. There is no doubt that they are not in reality as special as legend would have it but.....those looks........
I allude it to being at a party in ones rutting years. There is the gorgeous but flighty member of the opposition who turns your head. and the altogether more sensible and reliable but less immediately picturesque alternative. You know the latter to be the clever choice but........
It'll probably wear off again in time, but to answer your question Avant, Mrs B is also smitten with them.
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Manatee, Woodbines, Avant and Gordonbennet.... Thank you, you are all absolutely correct. Good advice.
Might just have a run out to a couple of garages all the same though..........just for fun.....
;-)
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I've been looking at an Alfa red 159Ti 2.4 jtd sportswagon. Lovely 19 alloys and subtle side skirts. 210bhp and 100% gorgeousness (is that a word?)
They appear to eat tyres though..which could prove expensive. I've been a member of an Alfa forum since my days of hankering after a Brera. Who knows what will happen when the Pug is up for renewal.
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By coincidence, Jeremy Clarkson writes about his topic in today's Sunday Times (In Gear supplement)
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Sorry, this topic...
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...By coincidence, Jeremy Clarkson writes...
Humph's finally been outed.
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I had Alfitis disease some years ago. I was so ill that I bought one. This cured me quickly, it was the most unreliable heap of rusty rubbish I have ever owned.
The disease has never returned thank goodness.
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They're a bit like my wife. Don't 'alf get on your nerves at time, but truly lovely to look at!
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My father had a 4wd 157 (I think) bought new.
Weird car to drive - you need very long arms and short legs.
It was stolen. Ins. co. paid up then called him 18 months later to say they had found it and did he want to buy it back. No thanks, he said.
So, yes, Alfitis is curable.
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I had a 156 2.0 TS with the Sport pack breifly last year. I absolutely could'nt stand it or understand it's appeal. I found it to be: Gutless, Shoddy, Dreadfull Seat/Pedal positioning, did'nt sound all that great, the brakes were a joke, the steering whilst direct felt completely artificial and lifeless.
A couple of years ago I ran a 1999 Nissan Primera 2.0 Sport Manual for about 6000 miles (similar class of car, but probably a couple of grand cheaper when new I guess), and thought this was a far better more resolved car than the Alfa in every respect.
I do think (I fully expect to be lambasted from many of you for saying this) that Alfa's are generally bought by the delusional who like to feel that they are somehow intellectually superior beings to drivers of German machinery!
(They look pretty though!!)
Edited by zm on 22/03/2009 at 12:50
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If you run cars into the ground, perhaps finding one with 100k plus on the clock and going for a test drive, see what they are like at that vintage - just an idea :-)
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I am a jap car man through and through BUT I drove an Alfa GTV TS and a V6 version aswell and I dont care what anyone else says, I loved them both - the V6 made the most beautiful noise and the engine is a thing of beauty.
The only true Alfa worth having is a V6 because when they work, they are magic.
I imagine the current generation can only be better built than the GTV which is last generation stuff.
A V6 159 wagon in a deep maroon metallic would be my perfect Alfa I think, cream leather of course.
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I once considered a Brera. I still find it one of the most stunning cars available. Then I got one as a rental car. The driving experience sadly did not match the expectations.
The old school 5 cylinder diesel which sounded like a tractor and suffered monster turbo lag started to take the shine off. I'll be kind and say that the handling is possibly slightly better than a Mondeo but not a patch on the 156 2.0TS of my rose tinted memory. The stunning tan leather clad interior turned out to have so many ergonomic foibles that long journeys became maddening.
With modern cars you just become used to doing simple things without worrying about it. Like adjusting the seat with having to open the door, being able to see the instruments in sunlight, that kind of thing. It would appear that Alfa consider their customers to be masochists who enjoy solving design problems for them, or maybe once they'd paid the stylist there wasn't any money left in the kitty to finish developing the rest of the car.
I came to the conclusion that an Alfa is basically a rich person's sculpture. You should buy it to put somewhere and look at, because driving it will disappoint you.
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I agree with stunorthants26, it's a V6 or nothing. I find it hard even to conceive of a diesel Alfa - all of the snags and none of the advantages, surely?
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The cure is to remember that they are thinly disguised FIATs, unfortunatly the afflicted see them as cut price Ferraris.
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We were in Limoges yesterday and SWMBO and I agreed that we had never seen so many Alfas the same day - mostly very young.
We saw all sorts, from a Brera to an old Spyder and, I have to say, IMHO the nicest looking was a late 156 Sportwagon.
Regarding some of the comments above, we had a Sportwagon when it had a 1700cc boxer engine with two blinking great twin-choke Dellorto carbs sticking up out of it. Yes, it did get a little bit rusty - only a little - and, yes, it did give trouble from time to time. But I'd have a Sportwagon again now like a shot, or a Duetto Spyder or a 75 or - well, almost any Alfa really. It isn't a coincidence that the firm that offers driving experiences around the legendary Nordschleife (? spelling) at the old Nurburgring uses Alfa 75s.
Go on, go for it. You won't know why you feel that way until you've tried it. Then - in spite of the (potential) grief - at least you'll know exactly why Alfas make you grin...
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My first ever experience of an Alfa was in 1986 when my dad took my mums Daihatsu Domino in for service and the loan car was a 1978 Alfasud in bright orange. Ive never for got my dad tearing down the A24 to Worthing in it - one of my earliest car memories!
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The Alfa 166 is the most beautiful saloon car that ever turned a wheel. In V6 form with leather and ludicrously cheap second hand prices in the UK, I can't understand why everyone isn't driving one.
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"The cure is to remember that they are thinly disguised FIATs, unfortunatly the afflicted see them as cut price Ferraris."
True but it's a bit like having to make a choice between Elle McPherson or Nora Batty. Both the same mechanically just with a different body shell. Would you really be interested in which one could make the better yorkshire pudding and which one would you prefer to take down to the pub?
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Yorkshire Pudding with onion gravy, served on its own, every time tha knows....
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"Yorkshire Pudding with onion gravy, served on its own, every time tha knows.... "
Welcome to the darkside......
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I cheated with my brief foray into Alfitus...i got my ex-wife to but one as her company car...instead of a Golf GTi.
it was a black 146Ti...and I have to say I quite liked it....lovely revvable engine, that sounded good...trouble is bits fell off it (door speaker on 1st day fell out and wouldn't stay back in properly...plastic cover to fuel cap broke in second week)... and it drank oil like you'd never imagine. I have never known of any vehicle that could drink more oil than that one did..from day one...and that includes my mate's mk11 Cortina Lotus
Even the delivery driver told my ex to religiously keep an eye on the oil. I kept telling her modern cars don't have those problems and that my car then, didn't use any oil between services every 12,000 miles. She kept badgering me, so 6 weeks into ownership I checked the dipstick...and there was nothing there....zilch.... and that's how it went on.
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Humph's been very quiet since yesterday morning............
I wonder what he got up to yesterday. Perhaps talking to the bank manager today?
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Went to see a couple of 159 estates yesterday. Had a go in a 2.2 petrol and a 2.4 diesel. Just gorgeous and very pleasing inside. Big downfall for me is that the loadspace isn't really big enough. In fairness, my work stuff barely fits in the Signum even with the seats down and really needs the loadspace of my Mondeo estate. I would just be kidding myself with the Alfa..... Still want one though......
:-(
PS Aren't 156s cheap now ? If I were in the market for one......
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The 156 estate has less space in the boot than the saloon apparently... but still an Alfa.
When I had a 156 2.0 JTS as a temp car when my Passat was off the road - after about 2 months I didn't want the bigger Passat back ;-) It was a very nice (but small hire car).
So get shot of the Signum, keep the practical Mondeo and get a 156 3.2 GTA!
I am surprised the estate version of the 159 will not take as much stock as the Signum though.
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I was bitten by the Alfa bug in 1999, and now on my third. All 156s, the latter two including the one I drive now is the GTA which is stonking. Never been left stranded by any of them. The first (an early 156) had some problems from new but the 2 GTAs have been pretty much faultless. And no, Im not dillusional about having one.
One thing on the bootspace, its not quite accurate, the 156 sportwagon boot is smaller than the saloon UPTO the parcel shelf. If you use the space above it then it is larger.
There are also now plenty of independant Alfa specialists who offer good value servicing and discounted parts, even for a GTA.
BTW the new 3.2 in the 159/Brera is a GM block with an Alfa head and not the Arese unit found in previous generation cars (156, GT, GTV, 166). Owners seem happy enough with them though the consumption doesnt appear to be good.
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