From what I hear from fellow FIAT owners, the only thing which often goes wrong on 1.2 Puntos is the coil packs. So keep a couple of spares in the boot and Robert's your uncle.
Good little cars. And if you fancy a brand new one, they're now being manufactured in Serbia under the Zastava badge!
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Great so if I did get one in 5 years time people will mistake it for a Yugo!
I am ashamed to admit I spent some of my youth laughing at Yugos as you watched the drivers trying to get into any gear.
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Don't worry Rattle, I don't think they're going to bother exporting them to the UK, or anywhere come to that. Strictly a domestic product. I believe FIAT are planning to build their own badged cars at the factory though. Also, the YUGO badge is being phased out for probably obvious reasons.
Google "Zastava 10" if you want a look at one. I was considering buying one recently to keep in my garage in Belgrade, but I'm not currently travelling there often enough to warrant it.
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It is getting the balance right, I lost a lot of money on my old car because I wanted to bring it up back to proper word worthy condition so I got loose CV boots fixed, replace the tyres and got it up to good standard but I just could not keep up with it so I had it let it go, I obviously lost a bit money in the process.
I never did bother too much about engine noises, it is noises from the safety bits that worried me, and since my friends acciden has done nothing to help that.
I have driven a couple of MK1 Puntos and they always seemed quite well built (for a small car) and nice to drive. I know they are just shopping trolleys but its all I need. I am limited to the 8 valve FIRE engine due to insurance reasons though.
I shall keep them in mind but just have a strict criteria, low previous owners, full service history, and I will check the gearbox very carefully. I think a Punto has to be a better buy than a Polo which just go for stupidly large amounts of money.
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has to be a better buy than a Polo which just go for stupidly large amounts of money.
However, the very similar Mark 3 SEAT Ibiza can be had for bargain money, and the 1.2 is in Group 2 insurance. Look for a .cool/S model, and you'll even get aircon for those balmy Mancunian summers!
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Yep the Ibiza is already on my list, well the post 99 facelift version not the original 94 version (want to move away from early 90's cars). And if our summer was like last years the only thing I will need this summer is windscreen wipers!
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I'm not anti-Fiat at all (not anti anything really) but my folks had a disaster zone of a used Punto 1.2 a few years back. It was W reg (early MkII) and @ 20,000 miles had head gasket problems, overheating on the shortest city trips, etc etc.
Having said that they are loads of them zipping around and I know a few people who have them and are perfectly content - folks came to the conclusion that they just got a wrong 'un. So as per the above advice check over carefully beforehand, FSH a must I would have thought
I remember it was nice to drive - nippy, very airy and plenty of space considering it's a "small car". Also felt pretty chunky and solid
Good luck
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Yeah I have had first hand experience in Punto head gasket issues, I walked away from one a couple of years ago because it had water dripping out the exhust, mayo in the cap and engine seemed to run quite hot.
I believe the head gasket on this is engine is quite an easy job as is the cambelt the problem comes like Rover K series if the head needs skimming. The other issue I have had is bad gearboxes and a whine but again it can be spotted a mile off. I won't buy unless it has perfect history, low owners etc and is still only on my list and not first choice, I was just forgetting them because they were FIAT but its rather stupid do that especialy as I have nothing againt them. Honest John's C2B puts me off a bit but then I would never buy anything if I went of that!
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I once had an Italian car.
NEVER again.
PS Someone told me they are better now, they need to be.
I like the Seat idea, good cars.
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I've had 7 Italian cars. I'd get another all day long.
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Well you had more luck than me.
Evertime I drove it, I was worried that it would break down and it often did.
Now then, we don't want Rattle worrying whether his car will go wrong, do we?
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Funnily enough the folks replaced the Punto with a Mazda 323 (98-03). Considered one of those? That, by contrast, was a brilliant and totally reliable car until it was written off in a crash...
Theirs was a 1.8 IIRC and went very well ((it was fast!). Not particularly "cool" if cool means everyone else has one, but cool in the sense that they are different and they don't leave you looking forlorn at the side of the road with steam rising from the bonnet
For a car of its age I don't think you can get a much better CBC than what HJ gives it! (My folks' one did have alloy wheels and it did look good!)
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The other potential issue with the Mk2 Punto is the electronic steering - a sort of servo pack in the steering column, which is several 100 notes to sort out.
The head gasket issue on the "FIRE" engine is traditionally lack of correct servicing - the coolant in the early ones is on a 2 or 3 year life.
If it's changed and the system isn't bled properly you cook the head gasket, if you skimp with the servicing and don't change the coolant you have problems when the corrosion inhibitors cease to do their job. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If you can stump up for a "2B" (the 2003 onwards version HJ doesn't like the look of) you get pink (very long life) antifreeze, MUCH better bigger headlights, central locking, electric front windows, and "follow you home" headlights even on the poverty spec "Active".. Oh, and antilock brakes too.
Slightly "joggly" ride, quick but vague steering - despite that, good fun for a little car with just 60bhp.
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>>If it's changed and the system isn't bled properly you cook the head gasket, if you >>skimp with the servicing and don't change the coolant you have problems when the >>corrosion inhibitors cease to do their job. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
This is exactly my dilema on my TF160 - its due a coolant change but so many headgaskets bite the dust as they are a pig to do properly - even specialists get it wrong! If I leave it, despite only having done 12K in 5 years, its going to cause long term damage!! Maybe I will do it myself and them only have me to blame if it goes wrong
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We have just got a 1.2 Grande Punto and like you were a 'little' wary of Fiat's reputation. So far, we have been very impressed - well built, fairly nippy and cheap to run - insurance is less than £20 a month!!
I have read of headgasket issues, but then again the Fiat replaced a Rover 214 which we ran to 140K with only 1 headgasket!! - cambelt was due anyway so didnt cost a deal more to be fixed. If the Punto gives a similar service we will be happy - time will tell but so far so good - and being galvanised should help your bodywork.
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Thanks for that, a 2003 model might be better then. I was a bit concerned about the steering too, but do they pack up a lot and is their any cheap scrappie repairs if it goes wrong?
bbroomlea you skimpt on the servicing on the Rover, it seems on the later models head gaskets are now a service item!
I am used to the old Fiesta pishrod engine where it really seemed to have tolerences for everything, there is no way an airlock in the coolant system would even remotely damage the head gasket on that engine!
Is the head gasket a bit job to do on the FIRE?
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Fab typo re the Fiesta engine Rattle, whether deliberate or not !!
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>>bbroomlea you skimpt on the servicing on the Rover, it seems on the later models >>head gaskets are now a service item!
It unfortunately had a full service history, including a coolant changes and went at 91,000 - due to age the belt was due at 90,000 so it only cost another £300 which included the radiator and waterpump. If the Punto goes the same way its no big deal - a belt change and service only on my Audi A4 is over £600 so when you put it into perspective.....
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I bought my daughter a Punto 1.2 01 reg when she started to drive approx 3 years ago, and to be honest have been quite impressed. Having said that I think in today's buyers market you would be get better value in Corsa or Ka.
We have been quite lucky, with few problems. Generally the electrics are so-so, and I dread something going wrong with the power steering.
Yes, worth considering but do not pay too much, there are plenty out there!
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Yeah the steering worries me too. My favoruites are a Focus 1.4 to 1.6 and either the Astra 1.4 G 1.4 16V or the 1.6 8v all them cars are dirt cheap to insure and a bit more grown up. A Ka will probably be too small for my needs.
Corsas seem too expensive for what they are.
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I had a 97 Punto Mk 1 1700 TD from new for 3 years. No problems, Sipped derv and pulled a 13ft caravan at the legal limit. Brilliant little car.
Ted
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If you check out the classifieds Rattle, my other halfs Punto is for sale for OIRO £900 (she will accept £700). Its done 103k but has 6 months tax, 11 months MOT, recent brake overhaul + service, new head gasket 9 months ago. Ive been driving it around for a week or two and its a great little car, nippy, easy to park, and suprisingly good fun to drive.
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>>a bit concerned about the steering too, but do they pack up a lot and is their
>>any cheap scrappie repairs if it goes wrong?
www.fiatforum.com/punto-guides/70703-punto-steerin...l
>>Is the head gasket a bit job to do on the FIRE
must about the easiest one there is to do.
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What's your budget now Rattle ? Only reason I ask is that there are starting to be some second hand "new" style Pandas on the market at what seem to be very reasonable prices. Received wisdom on here would suggest they are pretty good.
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starting to be some second hand "new" style Pandas on the market ...
New Panda is technically much the same as the Punto and uses the same design power steering - a lot of recently designed cars (Fabia etc) also use electronic power steering as they use less power than mechanical systems and consequently give better mpg.
(AFAIR the original KA didn't have PAS, and lost 2 or 3 mpg when it (mechanical PAS) was fitted.)
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Rattle
My Brother-in-law is on his 3rd Punto, having owned each of the others for at least 5 years. Generally cheap to run and maintain. Get one with plenty of evidence of servicing and should be fine. Watch for rusted sump guard and rusting sills (especially near jacking points). Brakes need to be checked carefully as some suffer from very uneven wear giving the impression there is plenty left until you take wheels off and you can spot the wear - basic visual check not enough. I just sold his last one for him - 2001, 79,000, 1.2 ELX for £850. Yes that is cheap, but I secured a good deal on 2008 model for cash, so happy to let the old one go for not a lot. Check out the Fiat Forum.
56 plate = £3500, 2004 for £2000, 2002 for £1500.
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Hump things have gone a bit quiet so I am going to have to assume it will stay like that for a bit (got a big advertising campaign going on but will take a month or so to get any sucess from it) so at the moment my budget is really £1500 any more and it would be risky.
Why are these cars so cheap is just that the market percieves them to be cheap cars? The prices I have been seeing with FSH are more like £1200 for a W reg.
I don't get why the Polos are so much more, many private people seem to want £900 for their tired R regs with 100k on the clock. Now these Polo's tend to rust at this age and they are not exactly 1980's Merc build quality, the Punto seems to make a lot of sense as you can buy a fairly new car for very little money.
That said I am also finding similar value in the Astra G providing I can find out which is not an ex plod car.
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Why not have a look at Nick's wife's £700 Punto Rattle?
It's got pedigree and is half your budget. Might be just the thing.
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My brother in law bought a Y-reg Punto JTD as a station car a couple of years ago. Had done about 80k with a full Fiat history, and was a really tight feeling and reliable car for the year or so he had it. The only real issue was misting headlights (a common problem with no effective cure he was told). Drove really nicely actually, and his was the top spec (HLX??) model which was astonishingly well equipped for a small car of the time. Came with ABS, air con, electric sunroof, electric windows and mirrors, Cd player etc etc.
Did him a treat until he took over sis-in-laws old car, and it became surplus to requirements.
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Why not have a look at Nick's wife's £700 Punto Rattle? It's got pedigree and is half your budget. Might be just the thing. >>
;-) If he buys it, that would deprive Rattle of :
1. continuing his entertaining threads on a search for a new banger.
2. being able to slag off the seller and reel off the faults he found with it - as Nick would be reading the comments! ;-)
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The fact the car is more than 200 miles away is a err an issue.
I have been put off the Punto due to a link which was posted here to the Punto forum, it seems a lot of people have had trouble with the steering. It seems the fault hides itself so when you test drive it is apparantly faultless then the next time it could fail again. This costs £1k to fix.
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rattle big tip for you here, look at any forum and all you will generally find are bad points about cars, you get very few posts about well behaved cars that's the way of the t'interweb. im sure with a quick google i could find you ample posts of big bills and death trap experiences with focuses, astra's, punto's take your pick, the key thing to remember is internet forums represent a small demographic for a particular car. in reality i think you only need to look at the amount of punto's on the road to draw the conclusion they can't be that bad.
as for nicks wife's punto being 200 miles away, is that really a big issue considering this is quite a friendly honest forum so you can probably be pretty sure of what your buying from a long term poster it's only one journey and one day of your life lost, if it turns out to be a solid reliable car then it'd be worth it.
chris
Edited by thomp1983 on 20/02/2009 at 11:29
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Q. FIAT Punto MK2 - Worth considering? - Rattle
A. >> I have been put off the Punto due to a link which was posted here to the Punto forum, ... This costs £1k to fix. >>
The End?
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Where abouts are you in the country Rattle? If you are at all interested, i am more than happy to send you some photos of the car............
We are only selling it as I am about to get a company car, so the Mrs will have sole use of our Golf.
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The two stage electric power steering on the Mk2 is good to use - our older Punto has been left on the City mode for nearly 7 years of constant -work in the community (on estates) wheel twisting - no problems.
In any case they can be reconditioned
tinyurl.com/aqdcdz
Our 2002 Punto is right in your price range Rattle, but we plan to keep it another 7 years at least!
Edited by oilrag on 21/02/2009 at 18:10
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Thanks for that oilrag :)
Do you how much a big job it is in terms of labour? If its a £400 job I guess its always worth the risk, its just £1000 repair bill on a car thats worth that much is stupid.
What scares me is the fact the problem tends to hide itself, I wonder if there is any way the fault can be read on a standard generic ECU reader or can only FIAT do it?
The Punto is probably the sort of car I would have to buy from a trader who offers a proper warranty (not the insurance jobs who typical won't pay out for this fault) or a private seller who I trust.
Nick I am in Manchester and really I wanted a MK2 rather than MK1, want to try and get away from the old early 90's stuff as its all I have owned in the past. It wouild be nice to have a post 2000 car.
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I think you can fit them yourself Rattle, but then they need a `proxy alignment` from the dealer.
There is no sign of rust on our 2002 model - even stone chips don`t rust. Check the sump for rust if you buy one though and the brake lines. If both are acceptable I would coat both with grease (as I do) and you could brush grease around the assembly line positioning wends and spray some spray grease inside.
Honestly, all that takes is around 15 mins and can be done without ramps.
If the headgasket goes on the 1.2 petrol its not too expensive and these engines MAY (check) be non interference jobs re if the cambelt goes. (look for antifreeze changes - the mk2 used conventional 2 year antifreeze and neglect possibly contributed to headgasket problems)
Best of all is that breakers yards are full of them (accidents not rust) and there is a ready supply of parts and panels.
I`m not recommending one though in case you have problems!!
But we have two, the other being a 2005 Mk2b Multijet van. Both bought for long term use - both very reliable and no rust.
Good luck with your search - for whatever car you choose ;-)
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My wife paid £6k for her Punto 1.2 activ 5 years ago.
It's been a fantastic car.
No doubt it will fall apart now I've posted this.
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Confused.
This thread is mostly positive but read some horror stories on the Punto website with regard to people selling their Puntos becasue of the dreaded steering fault. It seems it is a hard fault to detect.
I am still considering the MK2 Punto but only if i either know the seller or it comes with a 3 month warranty which covers the rack which gives me enough to time to check that that wasn't the reason the previous owners ditched it.
I am not too worried about the possibility of a HG failure it seems like a cheap fix. I believe cambelts are an issue on the 1.2 FIRE but snappage dosn't seem that common, but I will budget for a replacement if its not been done to schedule.
Edit I have not seen any cars worth looking at yet, and have also been busy again with work so its hard to find the time, hopefully tomorrow I will have a free afternoon.
Edited by Rattle on 24/02/2009 at 22:25
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You may need to do some more homework, Rattle..
The 8 valve 1.2 Punto engine (the basic, bottom specification "Active") is non-interference - the valves don't hit the pistons if you break the cam belt.
Also, the steering issue isn't the rack at all - although I'm sure some smart Alec will happily guarantee that for you - the problem is the servo mechanism in the steering column.
As pointed out by Oilrag, BBA re manufacture them. (although I suspect that the BBA page is in error as the PAS isn't "electro-hydraulic" on the Mk2 Punto - it's more in common, if not the same as the electronic PAS in the latest Panda.)
.... but I suspect you'd just worry yourself (and the back-room) silly about it anyway.
Do you really need a car?
Edited by Another John H on 25/02/2009 at 20:22
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John are you sure all the 8 valve Fires weere non interference? I thought it was the original 1108cc which did this but the newer 124?cc ones can cause damage if the piston snaps? Maybe I was just getting mixed up with the 16v ones.
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The EPAS units give trouble on the MGF/TF as well and the 'expensive' way of dealing with this is to replace the rack etc at the tune of £600+. A good auto electrician can remedy it for around £150 in labour and a few resistors - trouble is 99% of people will pay the £600+ as that is what the garage will do.
Maybe the FIAT system can be equally cheap to fix - I am hoping our GPunto doesnt suffer any problems.
Thing with worrying about all of these things Rattle is that Every car has something that could be classed as a common failure area if you look hard enough - buy something that you want and will enjoy - a sporadic failure can also happen, no matter how much research you do!
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Yep no car is trouble free entirely I understand that. I just don't want to be replacing a servo one week, the ECU the next, the head gasket the week after the gearbox the next month!
If I see a Punto with good history, good gearbox, no whines, no unusual smoke or rattles and its the right price I willo but it :).
I have been a lot more active in looking this week.
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Rattle, If you`re ever looking at a Mk2 - be sure to check the chassis rails in the engine bay. I was up at a scrapyard today and some had the entire front end neatly cut off - through the chassis rails.
I`m assuming they were taken to weld onto front-end damaged cars.
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Thanks for that tip, what I am looking for signs of spot welding? If you think they may be there to be cut and shuts do you think it might be worth reporting? The scrappy may not be doing anything wrong but it would be horrific to think those cvars might end up back on the road, although there is not much value in them now to make it worth bothering I would thought.
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I don`t know whether there are attempts to conceal welding or if it constitutes a `cut & shut` - or if that term applies to further back. We will no doubt find out shortly ;-)
I suspect it may be legit, to weld in new front chassis rails - but I wouldn`t want one.......
Edited by oilrag on 26/02/2009 at 18:15
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Should be quite easy to spot, as there is a chasis number stamped intot he floor plan usualy, and it is usualy quite easy to spot if the front one has been altered so I guess that is the good way of telling. I would imagine on a car like this it would be very hard to get the tracking right too.
I know on Fords the number is stamped onto the floor and also onto the slam panal, it it is rivited so it if it has been drilled out it is sometimes obvious.
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>>John are you sure all the 8 valve Fires weere non interference?
Having not actually broken one myself, I can't put my hand on my heart and say yes.
But I'm confident that the whole family - 769, 999, 1108, and the 1242 in 8 valve form, were designed as non-interference, back in the days when I had the time to follow "new" developments.
Others think so too:
www.fiatforum.com/punto/130819-1242-8-valve-safe.h...l
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