Window shopping is important when you are about to dispose of money that is particularly hard to come by at present. Do sales people really think you will just walk in , say " I'll have that one ' and cough up the dough with out any further to do ?
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Mr X: From my experiences, this is exactly what VW salesmen expect.
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What surprises me is that you are all surprised by how the VW dealers are re-acting - as if this is not normal for them. How long have people been telling you that VW and customer service and good value do not go in the same sentence.
Unfortunately when people try and tell you on this forum you all put your head in the sands and just blame it on the usual VW bashing.
The VW bashing as you VAG owners are doing here is only done out of experience - it is not made up.
Do yourselves a favour and go visit a Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Lexus or Mazda dealer and give them a chance.
And if you don't like the Jap cars them I'm afraid you will have to put up with the bad service that you VAG owners are now telling us about.
I'm sorry guys this is normal for VW - and when you buy a car and have a problem with it (I suggest some people read the latest Passat review on 4car) don't expect it to be any better. If they are not trying to get your money now, they certainly won't try any harder to please you when its in their bank account.
Honda are doing 0% finance deals on the CRV if you want a decent deal on an SUV.
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When I recently purchased a used VW from a town with a tower (thats not Paris) I thought the dealer was rather good. Despite doing most of it over the internet, my calls were answered or returned quickly and overall they got a thumbs up from me.
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There you go smick - you have to travel to Blackpool to get good service.
I'm guessing the rest of the VW boys will be along shortly to tell us where all the other good ones are - maybe you were just looking in the wrong place my friend.
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I didn't see anything bad about the Passat on 4car. But I did see then drooling over the Mazda 6 diesel. Having read the many bad posts on this car, I wouldn't have one as a gift.
I bought my wife's Golf from the VW dealer in Nuneaton, through Carfile. I bought the car on the phone, they delivered it with a full tank of diesel and a free first service. Quite good I would say.
I bought the Passat from the Derby VW dealer. After 7 years there was a recall, I took the car in and it was dealt with straight away. Quite good again.
I've had the Golf for 1 year and no problems. I've had the Passat for 7.5 years with only a broken electric window cable and still on the original battery.
Anyway keep knocking VW, it always sets me off.
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quizman - they still awarded it 2 our of 5 stars for reliability and quality and had the following to say.
"The Mk6 Passat is stiffer and stronger than its predecessor, but has suffered a number of minor quality defects and teething troubles. There have been problems with the steering rack and power steering, electronic issues and general electrical troubles, failure of the electronic parking brake, leaks from the air conditioning system, failure of the cruise control and a catalogue of build defects and problems with fit and finish reported.
To give Volkswagen the benefit of the doubt, many of these glitches should have been ironed out by now (there have been a few recalls) and the cars do seem to be leaving the factory better-built than at first. The new CR diesel engine also replaces the old Pumpe-Duse unit, which had more than its fair share of problems."
Now if I recall VW talk about the Passat being "beautifully engineered" - I think trading standards should be having a word - VW reckon they build quality motors - yeh right ! :-)
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Just for the record quizman - this is what they say about the Mazda 6 (which I appreciate you would not have one given to you) and they awarded it 5 stars.
"Meet a Mazda owner and chances are you'll discover a satisfied customer: the brand ranked ninth in the most recent 2008 JD Power investigation into owner satisfaction. The Mazda 6 itself was placed a decent 28th (out of 100), with owners impressed by the interior build.
No major reliability issues were reported and the future bodes well because the company has invested in 'virtual engineering' to identify potential gremlins in the design stages.
Inside, the materials used are of reasonable quality but there are some less convincing plastics if you go hunting for them. Overall, it feels very well built."
Maybe there are a few things that VW could learn from Mazda about "beautiful engineering"
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Pendlebury, there do not seem to be many satisfied Mazda owners on this site. In fact it seems there are dozens of very cross Mazda owners, who find their oil levels suddenly rising and all sorts of funny goings on.
Beautiful engineering my armpits.
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OK quizman - I can see your blinkers are on and VWs are the best thing since sliced bread. I hope you continue to have trouble free motoring my friend.
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Pendlebury, you have not commented on the huge number of posts on the Mazda diesel problems. There are not many Mazda cars sold in this country, but on this site there seems to be major problems.
It is these threads that would put me off buying a Mazda, it seems odd that people get told that they are not driving their car properly in this day and age.
I do not think that I am blinkered to VW, it is just that I have been very satisfied with my 2 latest VWs. I owned a Golf Mk2 once and hated it.
Until buying VWs I had many Fords, which were mainly good cars, spoilt by very poor dealers. The worst dealers I have encountered have been Ford and Citroen. But I also think it is a bit of luck when you go to a dealer who you speak to. You might get a conscientious person or a complete idiot. It's just like a box of chocolates ......................!
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quizman - I was just trying to avoid playing tennis on which is a better engineered car.
I would suggest that you look at any customer survey report (JD Power etc) and read any car review from which ever site or magazine you trust most and generally all would say that Mazdas are more reliable and you receive better customer service than VW's. We can all think of a certain instance when a Honda or Mazda let someone down but when ever I review the technical issues there are generally more VAG cars being discussed than any other brands (except for the French). The latest whatcar reliability survey has Mazda as the second most reliable brand out of 30 and VW as 20th out of 30. That would suggest to me that the Mazda 6 is a better engineered car than the Passat especially when you see the individual scores for these cars. I think when you take both brands overall then a VW is no where near as reliable as a Mazda.
Edited by Pendlebury on 11/01/2009 at 16:52
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Pendlebury there do not seem to be many satisfied Mazda owners on this site. In Beautiful engineering my armpits.
My mate has owned two Mazda RX8's and loves them, although he does not use it too much as it costs too much in oil and petrol and he gets asphyxiated by the CO2 emissions from that ridiculous rotary engine.
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quizman,
I still really like my Mazda 6. Yes there is a DPF regen process that can raise the oil level but being aware of it then it can be managed. I find it car more comfortable than the Mondeo TDCi Ghia I had before it.
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I expect that they won't give me the 'price to change' that I'm looking for i.e to p/x a four year old Golf MK 5 1.6 FSI SE with 24k miles on the clock, in exchange for a new Golf MK 6 1.4 TSI SE with a few extras, totalling £17,202.
I expect to be able to get this car for another £11k maximum and my car, of course and in fact will initially hold out for £10.5k. However domestic worries, at the moment will put off this process for a few more weeks yet.
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VW dealer's new stock is probably still owned by VW - to be paid for when the car is sold or after 3-6 mths if not sold.
T/I a nearly brand new car means the dealership will fork out mostly their own cash.
Profit used to be the god of the motor trade - Cash Flow is KING.
A few days ago a large builder reported trade down markedly but they now ow e£400m LESS than they did 6 mths ago!! How? They sold their existing houses and did not start as many.
That Madoff business in the USA apparently they never made money in 40 years - he paid off punters with others money - it only came to a problem of paying out when people stopped paying in!
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Thinking about it things might get better now VW are owned by Porsche - I am not sure if that is VW are VAG. Do people think Porsche have done this to reduce their average CO2 figures ?
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Find a VW dealer that also had a Skoda dealership in its group? IIRC Bath VW also owns Capitol Skoda Newport.
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J500 makes a good point - Skoda do a have a fine reputation for customer service.
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Falkirk Bairn probably has the explanation. It's a long time since I was involved with dealer stocking finance, but the deal always used to be 180 days free consignment. The dealer would only be direct debited for the car when it reached 180 days or when it was registered, if sooner. So selling a car that hasn't been in stock long, or is sold to order, is a whammy for the dealer in cash terms - he probably won't make any profit on the deal in the current climate, so the best he can hope for is to get your car underwritten (not as easy as it was) and end up cash neutral. If he makes a loss or holds your p/x in stock, his cash position worsens.
On the other hand, if you want a car that the dealer has already paid for, or is coming up to the end of the free consignment period, you might find the dealer keener.
I suspect there will be all sorts of one-off arrangements in place at the moment, specific to manufacturers, dealer groups or models, but there'll be a lot of strain in the system - stock finance has to come from banks, manufacturers, or dealers, and they're all under pressure.
Any deal that increases the dealer's liquidity is the one they'll be most interested in.
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Salesmen are (or should only be) interested in profit. That's what turns their basic salary into a living wage.
I did this job for 18 months. Was quite good at it. Hated it though.
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Part of this is, I think, the mentality of "top dog".
For many years, rightly or wrongly, VW enjoyed a reputation for building well-engineered vehicles that buyers were prepared to pay a premium for. In many ways they were the standard to which other marques aspired- for example, its well-known that Ford examined the trim, build quality, and finish of the Mk4 Golf when building the Focus.
They still make fine machines, but competition has meant that many others now also build cars that are equally- if not better- built. So why doesn't the market and its buyers react instantly, and all start going out and buying the Ford Focus instead?
It seems- and this is just observation, borne out by experience- that it takes about as long for a good reputation to be lost as it does for a bad reputation to be overturned. VW and its dealers are still effectively trading on a name, a name that many buyers still respect and are happy to pay more for. Oldgit, you said as much yourself the other week; (paraphrasing here) when you described the current Golf cabin as being a nicer place to be than a Focus. In my eyes the Mk5 Golf interior is not a patch on the Mk4 Golf, and the current-gen Focus' interior is at least as good to touch and admire. (I've owned a Mk4 Golf, last-gen and current-gen Focus, so I think I'm about as objective on this as possible.)
BR's and browsers here are not just drivers; we're motorists. We take a keen interest in whats current in the motoring world, a finger on the pulse if you will. I cant say that all the potential buyers flocking to VW dealerships will know or even care that you can buy a just as good (or better) motoring experience not far down the road for far less money.
tt
Edited by theterranaut on 10/01/2009 at 14:41
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Not all VW dealers are like you xescribe, Pendlebury. My local dealer is excellent (I've had two major and one minor warranty issues with my Passat and the service was exceptional). I'm not sue what the sales side is like there, however, as I bought the car through drivethedeal who placed the order through a VW dealer about an hour away, where, incidentally, the sales service was excellent and I save over £2k on list.
The worst sales experience I had was in a Honda dealer in the Midlands about 10 years ago, where I was studiously ignored for about 15 minutes and when I eventually approached a seated sales executive who was bent over behind his desk I found he was busy applying something on his lips!
I do agree generally though that the 'approach' used by many sales personnel in car dealerships is difficult to understand. I think the most arrogant and complacent dealerships will, deservedly, go the wall in this recession.
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Before Christmas went into a VW dealer for parts. Stood at the counter and four people chatting on the other side looked at me and ignored me. 5 minutes passed and still no service or even an indication that they knew I was standing there, so I left. Won't go back.
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I hate it when sales staff ignore me. My favoured response is to leave the items I'd intended to buy on the counter and leave. I work in a customer-facing role myself, and always try to see our services from the customer's point of view.
Back to motoring ... my local VW dealer is terrible, beaten only by the local Audi mob. Best that I've come across in our area are Honda. Our local Ford can be very very good. The best I've ever come across was a Toyota dealer in a town just outside Derby. I'd go back there again anytime.
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Can recomend VW in Swindon. Plesant sales experience with a very nice lady who new the product well, and servicing has always been cheper than other VW dealers near by and carried out well, although in 50K have never had anything other then servicing as no repairs warranty or other.
Re Porsche ownership of VW - dont think it will make any difference - they have owned a chunk for years, so the takeover is just a change of status rather than game changing.
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My local VW dealer seems to be oblvious to the credit crunch and the global meltdown of the entire banking system.
I was talking to a well known online car dealer the other week and he was laughing at the seondhand prices I was quoting him from them - he could get new VWs for much cheaper than many of their secondhand prices.
At the moment the car market seems to be split between two kinds of dealers - those who realise the situation and who are keen to discount to sell and those living in some kind of laa laa land.
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