Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
What's does the back room reckon is the best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick by motorcycle?

Took me nearly 2 hours today on the A23!

Anyone got a better suggestion? A24? A217?

How do people travel by car in central London? I can use bus lanes and always filter to the front at lights and I still only averaged 15mph over 30 odd miles! I reckon by car I'd be looking at an average of 5mph!
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - John Slaughter
Perhaps the question should be WHY do people travel by car in central London.

Regards

john
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
John Slaughter wrote:
>
> Perhaps the question should be WHY do people travel by car in
> central London.


Yeah!

Red Ken's saying they should pay 'extra' to go into town.

I reckon they should be exempt from tax for putting up with a form of transport far slower than a bicycle!

Dave
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - honest john
If Dave lives in Stoke Newington and works at Gatwick, John wasn't being very fair. Is there a means of getting from Stoke Newington to gatwick by public transport that takes less than a day and costs less than £50?

HJ
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - John Kenyon
honest john wrote:
>
> If Dave lives in Stoke Newington and works at Gatwick, John
> wasn't being very fair. Is there a means of getting from
> Stoke Newington to gatwick by public transport that takes
> less than a day and costs less than £50?

Yes.
Try a Standard Day Return at £19 valid at any time for out and back travel
on the same day.
Journey time from Stoke Newington to Gatwick approx 1h30mins
(travelling from Rectory Road probably knocks off a couple of minutes)

In fact you could still beat the £50 target if you buy a First Open Return
at £37.80.

See www.trainline.com for details

Please don't shower me with comments about sharing a carriage with
the great unwashed etc - I know all about it, my commute includes a 1h10
train journey into Central London, and no I wouldn't dream of using the train
to make any journey over 150miles.

/John
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
John Kenyon wrote:
>
> honest john wrote:
> >
> > If Dave lives in Stoke Newington and works at Gatwick, John
> > wasn't being very fair. Is there a means of getting from
> > Stoke Newington to gatwick by public transport that takes
> > less than a day and costs less than £50?
>
> Yes.
> Try a Standard Day Return at £19 valid at any time for out
> and back travel
> on the same day.
> Journey time from Stoke Newington to Gatwick approx 1h30mins
> (travelling from Rectory Road probably knocks off a couple of
> minutes)
>
> In fact you could still beat the £50 target if you buy a
> First Open Return
> at £37.80.
>
> See www.trainline.com for details
>
> Please don't shower me with comments about sharing a carriage
> with
> the great unwashed etc - I know all about it, my commute
> includes a 1h10
> train journey into Central London, and no I wouldn't dream of
> using the train
> to make any journey over 150miles.

John's point still holds true. Gatwick to Putney on a weekend is faster and cheaper by *car*. So even central London with no passengers rail still can't compete. As soon as you throw in extra passengers public transport becomes prohibitively expensive.

Incidently on top of the 1hr30 you have to throw in Taxi/Bus rides each end. You're really pushing it to get the time much under 3 hours using public transport or under 40 odd quid if you take the taxi each end.

I'll look into your route though!

To sum up HJ's point is fair enough, if he'd chosen 35 quid and 2.5 hours he'd have been right! And of course you're correct too!

Feathers unruffled?
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
honest john wrote:
>
> If Dave lives in Stoke Newington and works at Gatwick, John
> wasn't being very fair. Is there a means of getting from
> Stoke Newington to gatwick by public transport that takes
> less than a day and costs less than £50?

Pleasure to talk to you John! Your column is brilliant! And I bought your "Motoring Answers" book. (From a Church Fate I'm afraid!)

It can be done by public transport. Bus to Islington tube, tube to Victoria, Gatwick Express. Takes under 3 hours. Costs 1 + 1.40 + about 10 quid for the GE.

However this isn't really a very practical way to cover 30 odd miles! I've spent about £2.50 quid this morning, and done it in half the time and I'm *convinced* there's a better route to do the trip which will get it down significantly. If I could get it down to 1hr it would kick public transport well into touch! Plus the bike is reliable and will be on time and that drunk scottish bloke won't harass me, nor will the eastern european lady with her baby won't beg from me!

By car it would not be possible to go through town - I reckon by filtering to the front of at each trafic light I save about 3 traffic light cycles. Since almost *all* the journey is punctuated by lights I think this equates to about 3 times quicker by bike than by car. By my reckoning well over five hours going through the city and onto on the A23. Instead you'd have to take a road stright out to the M25 and go round the outside. This would also take ages.

Hence I'm looking for a speedy way through!
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - John Slaughter
Sorry guys - I recognise Dave has to make the journey, but he asked how people travel in London. Put like that, there can be little reason to use a car for a journey totally in London. However, I agree it's very different when you've got to travel out of London to a distant town

I'd agree about costs and convenience - I use a car for business trips, and frankly couldn't achieve them in a sensible timescale without. However, I always attend meetings in London by using the train. Half hour drive to Swindon, then Swindon - Paddington 1h or 1h10 m. Difficult to beat that on the M4, not to mention the impossibility of parking when I get there!

Cheers

John
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
John Slaughter wrote:
>
> Sorry guys - I recognise Dave has to make the journey, but he
> asked how people travel in London. Put like that, there can
> be little reason to use a car for a journey totally in
> London

Totally agree.

However on the bike it's a whole different issue. You can always filter to the front of any queue.

Dave
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Roger Jones
Dave

If it were me, I'd take the shortest public-transport route to King's Cross Thameslink (or Farringdon, City Thameslink, Blackfriars) and take the frequent Thameslink service to Gatwick. And I would use the travel time to read or work rather than get stressed by driving through all that south London stuff.

I enjoy driving, but not on a route like that, and I value my time. Driving time is dead time in all but the most pleasurable circumstances.

All the best
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Brian
Dave wrote "on my motorcycle -------------I can use bus lanes".
I motorcycle in London and don't use bus lanes because I thought that these were only for buses, taxis (i.e. chauffeur driven private cars) and pedal cycles.
Have the rules changed ?
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
Brian wrote:
>
> Dave wrote "on my motorcycle -------------I can use bus
> lanes".
> I motorcycle in London and don't use bus lanes because I
> thought that these were only for buses, taxis (i.e. chauffeur
> driven private cars) and pedal cycles.
> Have the rules changed ?

Erm, I thought so! Didn't red Ken change the rules so Bikes can use bus lanes?

Dave
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Stuart Bruce
Mind you on a pushbike you can go to the front of the q waiting on red, bounce up on the kerb, go round the corner on the pavement, and back down onto the road so now you got a green. Plus you can save money cos you got no batteries in the lights............lights? Wot lights?
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
Stuart Bruce wrote:
>
> Mind you on a pushbike you can go to the front of the q
> waiting on red, bounce up on the kerb, go round the corner on
> the pavement, and back down onto the road so now you got a
> green. Plus you can save money cos you got no batteries in
> the lights............lights? Wot lights?

Don't start me on Cyclists!

No tax, no insurance, no MOT, no mirrors, and inneffective brakes.
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Chris
Dave

> Don't start me on Cyclists!

Oh, please.

> No tax

No damage to the road, no pollution (beyond manufacturing the bike and extra pasta), takes up hardly any space (none at all in the opinion of some car drivers). And anyone who has a car pays road tax anyway.

>no insurance

Don't bank on it. Knock me off and watch the lawyers go! There are a fair few uninsured car drivers out there as well.

>no MOT

Who comes off worst in a crash? It's in the cyclist's interest to look after the bike. Plenty of no-MOT cars around I reckon.

>no mirrors

Mirrors are freely available at low cost. If you ride a bike you'll find that car drivers don't use mirrors much anyway. In many cases they are just there to show that they've reached the heady heights in their career where they can have colour coding.

>and inneffective brakes.

So you haven't ridden a bicycle made in the last ten years then.

Advantages include: no traffic queues, eat as much as you like of whatever you want and no lardy-ass consequences, and a big grin.

A mate of mine was once cut up and knocked off his bike near the Tyne Bridge. The car didn't stop. We eventually caught up and had a go at the driver while he sweated in traffic. My very angry mate grabbed the car keys and chucked them over the side of the bridge. Boy, did we ride like hell. Boy did it feel good. So be careful with cyclists, especially in cities. They are usually fit, fully warmed up and for some reason they get pissed off when their lives are put in danger.

Chris
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
Chris wrote:
>
> Dave
>
> > Don't start me on Cyclists!
>
> Oh, please.

I was being a little ironic. I think the advantages of cycles speak for themselves.

*However* I do have difficulty arguing that bikes *shouldn't* have insurance and road tax...

> So you haven't ridden a bicycle made in the last ten years
> then.

I cycle to work almost every dry day. (1.5 miles)
Bully for bikes, but . . . - Roger Jones
Bikes are a good thing.

But, please -- PLEASE -- can't cyclists realize that they drive a vehicle, that driving a cycle requires as much road sense as driving a motorcycle, car, van or truck, and that no vehicle belongs on the pedestrian footway, nor is its driver at liberty to behave like a pedestrian one second -- riding across zebra crossings, switching from road to pavement and back again, dodging around traffic lights, riding in the dark without lights -- and like a motorist the next.

I can't see why cyclists shouldn't be tested and licensed, just like motorists. There's more legitimate revenue there for the greedy government. In fact, I think I'll suggest that to my MP.

I know, I know . . . in my dreams.

All the best
Re: Bully for bikes, but . . . - Chris
Roger Jones wrote:

> drive a vehicle, that driving a cycle requires as much road
> sense as driving a motorcycle, car, van or truck

If not more.

, and that no
> vehicle belongs on the pedestrian footway, nor is its driver
> at liberty to behave like a pedestrian one second -- riding
> across zebra crossings, switching from road to pavement and
> back again, dodging around traffic lights, riding in the dark
> without lights -- and like a motorist the next.

Annoying, isn't it. Zebras are illegal, but Toucans are actually ok, if I remember my Cycling Proficiency test in the late 1970s. Willing to be corrected - never use 'em anyway, since it's safer just to swerve across the path of oncoming vehicles sweeping old ladies and prams full of mewling children hither and thither. I am, after all, immortal and immune from injury.

> I can't see why cyclists shouldn't be tested and licensed,
> just like motorists.

Huge cost, very little gain. Cycling Proficiency Test was a good idea though - what happened to that? Thatcher, that's what.

Chris
Re: Cycling - Chris
Dave

> *However* I do have difficulty arguing that bikes *shouldn't*
> have insurance and road tax...

Just out of interest, why? Few enough people ride bikes now. A tax might put them off further. I also suspect it would be unenforceable. Yet the benefits of more cyclists to the health service, cost of road maintenance, to say nothing of saving time lost because of congestion would pay for themselves. As for insurance, well, it ain't expensive. You are often covered for third-party liability by your household insurance anyway, or can be for a very small extra charge. Or join a cycling group such as the Cyclists' Touring Club or British Cycling Federation. You don't have to go on the organised rides and they include third party insurance in the membership (less than the cost of a gallon of jungle juice I think). The low cost of third-party insurance indicates how often cyclists are found to be at fault. While car insurance, well, there's another thread altogether...

> > So you haven't ridden a bicycle made in the last ten years
> > then.
>
> I cycle to work almost every dry day. (1.5 miles)

Bravo! Not much in the last few months, then.

Chris
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Stuart Bruce
Dave,
you forgot the "no bell" :-)

Mind you I have to say as a cyclist who actually stops at red lights, honest guv, that if drivers (and I mean drivers and do not include m/bikers in this) cannot notice when you are approaching at a high rate of knots with all bells, whistles, blue lights and God knows what else going, then they are not going to hear "ting ting" from a bike bell. I must confess I rely on leather lungs and a well timed "OY!"
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - John Slaughter
As a judge once famously said 'A yell is as good as a bell'!

Mind you isn't J2J putting forward legislation that all new bikes should have bells fitted? Obviously got his finger on the pulse of what the country really needs hasn't he?

Intrigued by the earlier comment about bikes having no or poor brakes - all I can say is that the brakes on my mountain bike are excellent, and these days you can get bikes with disc brakes no less. I don't like riding on road - too many car drivers treat you like a gap in the traffic, and even the best brakes can't save you from that.

Cheers

john
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Dave
John Slaughter wrote:
>
> Intrigued by the earlier comment about bikes having no or
> poor brakes - all I can say is that the brakes on my mountain
> bike are excellent

Ok I'll give you that!

Is the TP insurance, Tax, and MOT on your push bike as good as your brakes are???
Re: Best way from Stoke Newington to Gatwick? - Ian Cook
This is an interesting diversion. I also ride a mountain bike, and use it on tarmac for keepng fit. The other day I was suddenly confronted by a young twerp (remember them?) who skewed off the pavement on his skateboard into the road.

His mates shouted "CYCLIST" but by the time the pudding between his ears had registered I'd hit him anyway. It's actually very difficult to ring the bell and brake at the same time - perhaps the "leather lungs" mentioned elsewhere are the best warning after all. Fortunately, no harm was done (he fell on his head, otherwise he might have been hurt)
Re: Cycling - Neil
The best way to avoid being treated like a gap is to ride defensively.

That means, as with driving and motorcycling, taking up as much space as possible. Don't cycle in the gutter, pull out a bit further so that motorists have to go round you. Indicate well in time, make eye contact, and control the road around you.

Cycling on the road is usually quicker than on cycle-paths and keeps cyclists clear of pedestrians who are probably the most unpredictable road users around.
Re: Cycling - John Slaughter
Neil

Yes I know how to do it and I'm not one to be pushed around on a bike - but the problem is your going to come of worse, so discretion is often the better part of valour.

Cheers

John
Re: Cycling - Neil
Roger wrote

>
and that no vehicle belongs on the pedestrian footway
>

Sunderland council have made a point of siting most of their cycle paths from the city centre up to Whitburn on the pavement. For pedestrians there is now barely enough space in places for people to pass each other.
Re: Cycling - Chris
Neil wrote:

> Sunderland council have made a point of siting most of their
> cycle paths from the city centre up to Whitburn on the
> pavement. For pedestrians there is now barely enough space in
> places for people to pass each other.

Typical cheapskate stuff. This wouldn't happen in Europe. There they have proper, high-quality cycle lanes. Oh, yes, and good public transport, motorway networks and cities that get cleaned now and again. I worked in Sunderland for a while in the 1990s - don't remember anyone (else) cycling.

Chris
Re: Cycling - Neil
Chris wrote:
> This wouldn't happen in Europe.

Where are we then?
Re: Cycling - Chris
Kinda hanging on by our fingernails as Hague stamps on our fingers.

Chris
Re: Cycling - Stuart Bruce
While we are on the subject of cycling has anybody managed to get flashed by a speed camera on a pushbike? I keep trying, most of the cameras round here are in 40's which is a bit quick on an ATB plus too much of a lardass I guess. Oh no I can see another thread coming on!

Incidentally cycling proficiency still alive and well in Derbyshire, daughter just passed it.
Re: Cycling - Chris
Have managed 42 mph past a camera on our tandem, but not *quite* enough to get flashed. Can hardly see on a bike at that speed anyway, what with no suspension and all.

Chris
Re: Cycling - Brian
If the rules HAVE changed in London, they forgot to inform the Metropolitan Police.
Re: Cycling - Dave
Brian wrote:
>
> If the rules [Motorcycles in bus lanes] HAVE changed in London, they forgot to inform
> the Metropolitan Police.

Bugger. I'll wait for my fixed penalty in the post then.
 

Value my car