It was more a feeling of sitting in a design with a bygone handwriting, a car from a >> different era if you like
In fairness, the E39 design is now 12 years old. Personally, I still think it's still a fine looking car though, particularly in silver. BMW interiors have completely changed in the last decade though, and now look very sparse and 'clean' in comparison to the older models. This is bound to contribute to the 'bygone' feeling, but it's still one of the best built and most comfortable interiors around.
Anyone else felt like this about a car they have always fancied ?
Ooh, lots of them over the years. Renault 5 GT Turbo, Mercedes W202 (original C-class), mkIV Golf GTI 1.8T and Saab 9-3 Aero to name but four.
It's nice when it happens the other way though and a car you expect to be lousy, or at best feel indifferent towards ends up really impressing you. Citroen C4, Renault Grand Scenic, Astra H to name but three.
I agree with Michael R though. Try a 530i. I suspect it will certainly soften the focus on those details. Still widely regarded as one of the most capable big saloons ever made.
Cheers
DP
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I think us humans are all a bit prone to wanting what we think we can't have and when we can have it we don't want it any more!
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Psychologists say that people always wrongly estimate their emotions! Usually most people become less ecstatic than expected when they get what they want. On the other hand, people tend to feel not that bad when something not so good event happens to life.
In automotive world, many cars are not worth the hype. This is especially true for the high end models. Cars like Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce etc. are not that special (I've not driven any of them, but heard from people who did drive them) compared to many common luxury cars. When people buy these cars, they just buy the "exclusive status" - not the mechanical bits.
This is not just cars but for all consumer goods. I personally don't see a reason why people buy watches like Tag Heur, Omega, Gucci etc. Are they really worth their premium prices? But they are considered status symbol.
In this very forum people fretted about owning Porsche, RX8 etc.
So, sometimes hero does appear like zero after meeting ;)
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Oh dear, no wonder I'm confused then ! I wear a Tag but currently drive a six year old Mondeo. I favour "Northampton" shoes but I am quite happy to wear them with Next jeans. I try to buy good food but will wash it down with cheap plonk. Holidays are often on the Riviera but nights are usually spent in a tent. Psychologists worst nightmare I should think.
As for my next car I shall almost certainly make an informed and considered choice and then buy something else on a whim !
;-)
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BMWs never have been that far ahead of the best of the competition.
It's all hype, marketing, emperor's new clothes, call it what you will.
Great for BMW, they sell loads of cars and charge a premium, but in reality? Meaningless puff and bluster.
The other point is the classic BMW buyer is such an arrogant know-all he refuses to admit he's bought nothing better than a badged up Ford, thereby perpetuating the myth.
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There's definitely something in this 'never meet your heroes' bit.
I spent several days in the UK over the weekend, examining and driving the sort of upmarket and classic cars (no names) I have long planned to buy as a treat.
This was the second such trip in a couple of months and I've still come away empty-handed because, with the notable exception of the Bentley Continental R, all the exercise has proved is that my 10-year-old and worth peanuts Vtech Prelude is an extremely capable little motor. Three years and 40,000 miles on I know that LJK Setright was, indeed, right.
But the problem remains - I am not interested in today's 'nannying' motors and Morgans ride too hard, so what to buy for a bit of fun?
In answer to the obvious question, it would be problematical to buy the Conti R - there are only two Bentley dealers in the whole of France and I don't think I want to trust my friendly local Renault or Peugeot garage with one.
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To balance up the argument, I'd longed for a W124 Mercedes estate and bought a mint E280 in Apr 07. It wasnt cheap but is immaculate. One year on and the car continues to impress me like nothing I've ever owned. It's fabulous to drive and makes any journey a bit special. It has the optional sports suspension, which makes powering out of roundabout that bit more satsifying. It's ridiculously well built - there's a slight buzz from the front passenger door trim and that's it. On a 14yr old car with 146K miles on it.
And to top it all, if you drive serenely, you'll get 28mpg out of it, which is fine with me for such a marvellous travelling experience.
We're just back from a 2 week driving holiday to SW Ireland, touring around West Cork and Kerry, including the Dingle peninsula. Total mileage was 1749. The only incident was the rear off-side break bulb needed replacing. Oil and coolant levels are the same as when we returned. Got her valetted, and she looks like new again.
The W124 estate is one hero I'm glad I met.
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I understand this principle.
The fact is that the larger mainstream car manufacturers have the same level of expertise as the smaller higher end makers. They just use the technology differently. With very few exceptions I have found low end cars to be prefectly adequate and in some cases extremely good. Its just that they date very quickly compared to higher end models.
No-one would expect Sulphur Man to be driving as he did in his 14 year old E280 if the car was a Vectra estate. It would have simply worn out by now. But compare a new E-class and a Mondeo and the driving experience could actually be very similar.
So, if you want to meet your heroes, make sure you are comparing apples with apples. Don't expect the same experience in a brand new Mondeo as an old model 5-series; you may find that the Ford is the better car.
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Of all the cars we have owned or I've driven, only two have felt special - a 1988 Rover 820 and the two Saab 900 turbos (1986 and 1990) we owned. What a great car the 820 would have been if it wasn't so unreliable. The 900T's were just all-round great.
I am wondering, though, if you are also simply less easily impressed as you get older or if my memories are also a little rose-tinted.
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I think it was Shaw (GB) who said " It is better to travel, than to arrive" and Oscar Wilde sed "There r only 2 tragedies in this world ... The first being not getting what you want, the second being getting what you want, this is a real tragedy.
Maybe if you had owned & driven a BMW for the last year or 3, and then road tested the Ford, your sentiments would be a tad different.
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i've still got my 'hero'.
ever since being a kid when my step-father was into Jags i'd promised myself one 'one day'.
That day came 6.5 yrs ago (3 litre Jag S Type) and I can hand on heart say it still gives me a buzz now. It's now nearly 9 yrs old and worth £3.50, but i couldn't care less, it makes me smile every time i get in it. So much so i've decided i'm keeping it for all time and it will eventually reside in a barn/garage and become a classic.
Edited by Westpig on 17/07/2008 at 08:19
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Have you ever considered a Bristol MH? Aesthetically not the best, but very well put together they say and also, in most cases, maintainable by any competent mechanic, but anyway very reliable with Chrysler V8 running gear. As I say, not everyone's cup of tea especially visually but quite discreet looking, decently capable and even (by Rolls-Royce standards) quite economical in some of the later models. I believe owner loyalty is high with Bristols too, partly because they are maintainable and last for ever.
The only problems are that the much more beautiful 2-litre Bristols are very expensive if good, and probably less usable in the everyday sense, and that Antony Crook Motors who own the marque have a reputation for extreme snootiness about the sort of people they want to do business with. This may have been exaggerated by interested parties though.
Just a thought.
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Yes Lud I have considered a Bristol - missed a very nice 2-litre 406 near Weston-super-Mare last year. I spotted it as we were leaving for home and only had time to stop for a brief look. By the time we were back in France and I found the dealer on the net it was sold! My bank manager in Bridgwater years ago had a smart 405. His boss was called Mr Handover. Just thought I'd mention that.
Anyway, the search is now over - as of last night - and my Backroom name will be changing shortly. Sadly, in many ways, it won't be to 'Conti R' though...
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BMWs never have been that far ahead of the best of the competition.
When the E39 was current, they certainly were. It was so good that it put the others comprehensively in the shade. The only reason an executive saloon buyer wouldnt buy an E39 back then was becuase they couldnt stand BMW. Otherwise, you bought the E39. It was an immeasurably better car than both the E Class Mercedes and the Audi A6.
I doubt BMW will ever be that far ahead of their rivals again.
he's bought nothing better than a badged up Ford thereby perpetuating the myth.
BMW's are more than a badged up Ford - they are a noticeably better quality product on the whole (Although the gap between Mk4 Mondeo and E90 3 Series is now smaller than its ever been). I went from a Ford to a BMW and although my Ford was a great car, remains a great car and I'm still fond of it, the BMW was many, many times better in every non financial way (It cost loads more to buy, loads more to run and drinks loads more fuel).
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The other point is the classic BMW buyer is such an arrogant know-all he refuses to admit he's bought nothing better than a badged up Ford thereby perpetuating the myth.
It's only a myth in your opinion. Having owned 7 Fords and 2 BMWs I can safely say that the BMWs were better cars than any of the Fords (comparing like with like as closely as possible). That applies to virtually every aspect of the car, looks, engine note, steering feel, interior ambience. You name it and the BMW was better at it (with the exception of practicality, yawn, the Fords are better at that being hatchbacks)
Don't get me wrong, I love the Mondeo V6 that I currently drive, but if I could wave a magic wand and turn it into a 325i I would do it in a hearbeat.
How many BMWs have you owned? I'm guessing at least 2 or 3 if you're able to judge the brand so effectively.
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Blue - and MichaelR above.
Respect your opinion gents, and both of you have probably put the position more fairly and accurately than I did.
However, just one example of brilliant Beemers ....
I remember sticking a 5-series into a roundabout and the inside rear wheel lifted like a Skoda Estelle or Triumph Herald.
OK, I was going some, but they told me it was a BMW - different league.
I don't think so.
That was a few years ago, and I don't doubt the new ones are much better, but I cannot accept the view held by some that BMWs are somehow far superior to other cars.
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That was a few years ago and I don't doubt the new ones are much better but I cannot accept the view held by some that BMWs are somehow far superior to other cars.
We may be in agreement then, I don't think they're superior to all other cars, only mainstream ones, most Japanese ones and most American ones. Obviously Mercedes, Aston Martin, and refreshingly, new Jags appear to be in the same league as the Beemers :-)
I say it with no snobbery given that I have for a long time, am currently and will be for the forseeable future, a Ford driver. (not sure if you were here then but my handle used to be Blue Oval going back a few years, I dropped the Oval when I briefly had another marque)
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Blue,
I think we do (nearly) agree and, looking back through the memory banks, I was pretty impressed with a 635csi manual.
It had the close ratio 'box and could spin its wheels at about 50mph under hard acceleration.
You wouldn't have heard me moaning about BMWs after driving that. :)
Edited by ifithelps on 16/07/2008 at 23:11
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The trouble with later Bristol tourers is they look so much like a mid 70's Ford Escort Mk2 with a much lenghthened bonnet.
www.pistonheads.com/news/images/3130-2.jpg
www.ford-fiesta.nl/plaatjes/mk2/14869.jpg
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 17/07/2008 at 01:19
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Still looking. Had a shot of an ST220 estate tonight. Now if you will indulge me for a moment, the analogy I would use for the test drives of two BMWs would be a night at the opera. In other words, very classy but frankly a bit boring and a bit of a relief when it was over. The ST was more like being at a Queen concert with Freddie at his best. In other words a bit kitsch but you find yourself longing for the encore. Maybe I am just too unreconstructed these days to return to a debonair Bavarian.
;-)
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Funny you should say that, my final car shortlist came down to either 530i Sport or Mondeo ST220.
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Try something of lasting worth like a Beethoven or Brahms symphony - from Ingolstadt !
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Ss, there's something wrong with your sense of perspective. You're nearly as bad as that Altea Ego who I hope is reading this and getting some sort of bowel condition* resisting the temptation to answer it.
*Not too serious however. How are things in congested Surrey young man?
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Had a go in something else today. As I mentioned in the OP, I need an estate car but wanted something which felt like a wee bit of a treat.
Anyway, had a shot of a Ford Mondeo Mk 3 Ghia X Diesel Estate today. Surprisingly nice to drive. Very comfortable. Quicker than you might think. Handles well. Leather, sunroof, climate, cruise, decent stereo, electrically adjustable / heated seats, mid 40's mpg, cheap insurance, cheap servicing etc etc. Excellent condition, FSH, T&T. A credit to its current owner.
Wasn't too expensive either. In fact I can have it for free. It's my car.
;-)
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Funny you should say that Humph, I had a similar experience when I got back into my Mondeo after parking it up at the end of winter, I suddenly realised that I had left what is actually still quite a nice car to sit and fester behind the house whilst I drove the TF and forgotten all about it.
When I sold the TF I was busy looking at all sorts of things that would replace both the TF and the Mondeo, then it dawned on me, I already owned a large hatchback V6 with full bodykit, leather, climate, CD changer, heated seats etc. that is in full working order, drives well and still looks good for it's age in my eyes. It's booked in for it's LPG conversion next week and I'm going to keep it two years until MichaelR is bored of his E39 and sells it to me. :-)
The moral of the story, sometimes it's better the devil you know, especially as I now still have several £K left in the bank which is going to be put into the company share scheme!
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Blue,
Just out of interest, what's the LPG conversion going to cost you?
Cheers
DP
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Going back to the OP, SWMBO got her first Beetle back in May.
Since she was a teenager she has wanted one, collected all the models, memorabilia etc but had never actually sat in one, never mind driven one!
After the test drive we purchased it and a week later she confessed to me that it was the most nervous drive and purchase she had ever made.
This was going to be the proverbial dream come true and she said she did not know how she would have coped if she had got out after the test drive and not liked it!
Thankfully for her she did, and is still loving it!
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Just out of interest what's the LPG conversion going to cost you?
It's £1,650 for a full sequential multipoint system with the Flashlube included (the soft valve seats of Ford engines makes this essential in most opinions), I'm also getting a courtesy car thrown in so I'm not off the road.
That's made it worth my while to travel to Warrington to get the work done at www.warrington-autogas.co.uk They seem to have a good reputation on the Mondeo owners forum with at least two of the guys having had their V6's done there with no problems.
The best deal I could get locally was £1,625 with a Flashlube and NO courtesy car!
I figure that I will see payback in just over a year with current petrol prices and my mileage, however, it's more than about payback, at present, I simply don't quite earn enough money to fuel the car comfortably. The alternative is dip into savings every week to help out, after a year or so I would have spent the equivalent of an LPG conversion and still have a car that drinks fuel, not sensible in my eyes!
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Blue Just out of interest what's the LPG conversion going to cost you?
In about two years time - his sanity probably.
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In about two years time - his sanity probably.
Hold on, I'll start another thread so that we can discuss this :-)
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Ss there's something wrong with your sense of perspective. You're nearly as bad as that Altea Ego who I hope is reading this and getting some sort of bowel condition* resisting the temptation to answer it.
Wont work lud.
I refuse to be drawn into an argument where the participants desire a bristol, even claiming them (any of them) to be good looking or well made. Clearly such people are barking mad and should be playing naked ludo in the mental ward, not allowed on the dangerous internet to mix with sane people like me.
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Heh,heh.
I hope you are well AE. Nice to hear your voice my dear fellow.
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The trouble with later Bristol tourers is they look so much like a mid 70's Ford Escort Mk2 with a much lenghthened bonnet.
Yes, it has to be said, Bristol models of the last couple of decades or so (with the exception of the Fighter) don't really look as if they have received much attention from a professional automotive designer :-)
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don't really look as if they have received much attention from a professional automotive designer :-)
They aren't beautiful, no, but they aren't embarrassingly misproportioned either. Personally I like the relative invisibility of the thing, but I suppose many would feel that for that sort of money they should get something that shouts: I AM CONSIDERABLY RICHER THAN YOW (courtesy Harry Enfield). That isn't what Bristols are about though.
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I would count myself as an admirer of Bristols.
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I would count myself as an admirer of Bristols.
I would count myself as an admirer of bristols.
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That is a coincidence ifithelps. I find them especially pleasing if moving or when parked side by side so that you can compare them.
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Seems we're both admirers of rhyming slang.
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