In the past week I've seen a few young horse riders on the road, trotting along but either using their mobile phones or smoking a cig - surely this is more dangerous than using a motorist using a mobile whilst driving - in addition to being distracted by the call, the rider would find it more difficult to steer/slow down if the horse spooks. As road users, do the police ever stop and spot fine them?
Also - they leave great piles of cack on the road/pavements - I know dogs aren't allowed to do this as their owners get fined - and their dumps are a fraction of the size of those from a horse!
These are just thoughts... I've nothing against horses - I just don't particularly want to get into an accident with one or have to clean cack off my wheels!
Pootle
|
Pootle, there's cack and then there's cack. Quantity is not the only factor. There's quality as well.
What would you rather have: horse cack on your wheels or dog cack on your shoes?
|
I'll wager there's a whole raft of legislation going back to the early Plantagents (if not earlier)
regarding what horses & their 'keepers' can or cannot do - though most is probably moribund or simply forgotten.
Regarding the sheight question - the most irritating thing is not the wheel adhesions, but the splatter around wheel valances & arches - it's like superglued papier mache!
If current legislation doesn't mention horses in particular, WRT mobile phone use or other distracting activities etc., one would assume a more general common law application would work like, 'behaviour likely to endanger other highway users' or similar
Supplementary point - I'm always careful & respectful around horses & riders whilst at the wheel, but increasingly get little back, i.e. a small acknowledgement of some kind, more often just a rather haughty & unfriendly stare. I tend categorise them now, as a result, as 'Range Rover drivers on legs'.
|
..early Plantagents..
- or even Plantagenets - although 'Plantagents' has a certain something.
|
|
I bought one of those from Focus a couple of years ago. It has a Yucca in it at present.
|
|
|
|
|
As and when I see a horse galloping past a school at 40 mph, I will agree with you, until then, horseriders on mobiles and smoking on a horse at walking pace really are not the greatest threat to road safety we currently face.
|
Surely it's the principle - if you're driving slowly on an empty road using your phone then it's OK... isn't it?
Point is, a horse at walking pace can still be dangerous - they're not the most predictable things in the world and can spook out easily - I guess emergency vehicles with sirens might freak them out? I've seen them rear and move sideways - not easy to control with 1 hand I guess.
@ Lud... don't really want either on my shoes if I'm honest. It would just be nice to see an even-handed treatment of these things
Edited by Pootle on 16/06/2008 at 15:24
|
not easy to control with 1 hand I guess.
Completely impossible to control even with both arms wrapped round its neck if you ask me. Of course I've never tried the old cowboy trick of sinking my teeth into the beast's ear. Perhaps that would make it see things your way, but somehow I doubt it. Intellectual independence seems to me to be the main trouble with horses. Cars have a lot more deference.
|
|
|
When oil get to $300/barrel I forecast a rise in the number of ponies and traps.
Small boys will stand with brooms at pedestrian crossings and your good lady will tip them 20p as the lad sweeps the carp out of her way.
|
|
onb's prediction of the return of the crossing-sweeper reminds me that my post above on the relative quantities and qualities of different cacks was set strictly in the present day. I would imagine the West End of London, indeed most of the metropolis, would have been swimming in the horse product in the latter part of the 19th century, and hundreds of tons of the stuff must have had to be removed every day to fertilise arable farmland all around. A labour-intensive beast when used for heavy transport, the horse.
|
|
A big problem with horses is the need to fuel them even when they're not in use. Nor can you stick them on SORN for 6 months and go abroad for the winter.
Edited by nick on 16/06/2008 at 16:00
|
I live in an area that has more horses than people living there and whilst all horses are quite plainly doolally, they are mostly harmless although once, when I stopped to shoo a horse back into its field the little git bit the corner of my car leaving two very large scratches down to the metal - the insurance claim probably found its way onto one of those emails about weird claims that go around from time to time.
Anyway it's not the horses, it's the riders that are the problem, they drive to the stables and then in all senses of the word get on their high horse and look at drivers as if they are scum.
It's a toss-up which is worse on the road - rider or caravan tower (I've hadn't a pop in that direction for a while and I need to keep my average up)
Edited by Nsar on 16/06/2008 at 16:11
|
the little git bit the corner of my car leaving two very large scratches down to the metal
A friend's mother, an antique dealer, used to keep a couple of live donkeys in her garden along with the fairground roundabout horses and a number of large mirrors. Woken early one morning by a hideous screeching and scraping noise, she looked out to see a donkey, displeased by its own reflection in a mirror, making a series of deep gouges all down the mirror with its front teeth. I saw the gouges and they were half an inch wide and an eighth of an inch deep, and up to a foot long. (She also kept a peacock which the vicar complained was sexually abusing his chickens).
Camels have terrifying long yellow front fangs and spend a lot of time cursing angrily. But they are said not to bite, preferring to kill you with a kick which they can do in unexpected directions.
|
|
|
Anyway it's not the horses, it's the riders that are the problem, they drive to the stables and then in all senses of the word get on their high horse and look at drivers as if they are scum.
They dont just give that down the nose look either. On a recent walk along a local bridleway/footpath I notice a group of three horses coming towards me, so stepped to one side (up to my ankles in mud) and waited for them to pass safely. As they passed one of the riders called me an idiot for having the temerity to even be on 'their' path.
|
|
|
|
|
"hundreds of tons of the stuff must have had to be removed every day to fertilise arable farmland all around"
Blimey, that takes me back Lud, seem to remember from my studies (!) years ago that that was one of the principles of von Thunens theory of agricultural land-use - the most intensive agriculture was close to cities because land was most expensive but the intensive land use was possible because of all the horse stuff available to fertilise the land.
And now back to motoring.....
|
close to cities because land was most expensive but the intensive land use was possible because of all the horse stuff available to fertilise the land.
And of course because of the permanent large food market existing in the great swarming manure-source itself, carp one way and mangel-wurzels the other... home counties farmers returning good for evil so to speak.
|
"because of the permanent large food market existing in the great swarming manure-source itself"
Yup, sorry, forgot that side of the equation - but then I thought von Thunen was getting a bit off "motoring" - not sure how many mangels went to London though!
|
not sure how many mangels went to London though!
No, cabbages and things in season, potatoes and so forth.
A character in a Kipling motoring story published in 1904, disparaging the performance of a troublesome steam car, says:
'Yes, but that being so, where does your much-advertised twenty-five miles an hour come in? Ain't a dung-cart more to the point?'
One gathers reading between the lines that dung-carts were a byword for slow, numerous, wandering vehicles even as late as 1904.
The bucolic ancestors of Hell Drivers perhaps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As and when I see a horse galloping past a school at 40 mph I will agree with you
Many years ago a horse galloped into the side of Dad's (stationery) car at 40 mph, and it was ot a pretty sight. Turns out the horse was uninsured so Dad had to bear the cost of his own repairs even though he was not at fault. Is this still the case with horse insurance?
Incidentally, the car was a VW Jetta GLi Mk 1. Basically a booted Mk 1 Golf GTI. Very nice in it's day.
|
|
|
|
This raises an interesting point - A horse is a semi intelligent animal capable of not walking into walls or other hazards, so the rider does not have 100% control (no Horse will ride head on into a wall, whatever the rider asks it to do).
A rider however should keep a tight rein when the horse is in traffic, in case it should spook. But most times older horses are used to traffic and it isn't a problem.
Now I wonder - if a car was developed that could be set to drive itself or at least have accident avoidence is using a mobile phone then a similar offence to using one whilst riding a horse?
Having ridden horses, I would not use a mobile phone whilst on a horse as it distracts the horse and you are not fully aware of what is going on around you. I suspect that when out in a group the middle riders (especially young) use their mobiles as the leader and tail riders take the risks.
Smoking a cig is different as once lit, it is in the mouth. Just don't drop the ashes on the horse!.
|
|
A police horse once kicked a significant dent in my car door in heavy traffic in Glasgow. It then took off and bolted up Sauchiehall street scattering all before it with its WPC rider struggling to stay on. Bit like a live Thelwell cartoon. Got nowhere fast when I sought recompense for the damage. As an erstwhile horseman myself I did have a certain sympathy for the rider. If a horse decides to have a dicky fit there is little useful to be done in the short term.
|
|
I always think in this day and age horses should be banned from roads as they are too dangerous (roads and horses) - When ever I go to pass one the riders always seem to wave their arms up and down as though trying to tell me something - waves in road??
|
banning horses from roads?
as much as i can understand the point of view. horses were around before cars, so..... never gonna happen is it.
|
|
Vehicles are now banned from RUPPs though, as they've almost all been re-classified as Restricted Byways. Previously cars could use RUPPs.
|
We have two riding stables in the village, and at school holidays and weekends it used to be a nightmare. There has been some action recently and it's not too bad now. However, we have had the deaths of three riders in the past fifteen years, and a number of incidents with young riders. They often ride two and three abreast on the main road through the village, and I have seen horses bolt with their young riders and buses skid to avoid them.
I 'phoned one of the stables after nearly being run down by a few horses that were being ridden on the pavement, and was met with a load of abuse from the proprietor who denied the horses were from her stables. A threat to report the matter to the police - I'm not sure what they could, or would, have done - calmed her down a bit and she said she would warn the riders about being on the pavements.
As I understand it, horses and their riders are virtually immune from any sort of legal redress.
|
Using a phone? Blimey, shoot 'em.
I used to ride down to the newsagents, hand the horse to a nearby passerby to hold while I went inside, and then ride home reading the paper with the horse on autopilot.
|
|
There should be a requirement for public liability insurance for riding horses on roads IMHO.
|
Where i work there are a number of cemeteries that service Central London Boroughs. Some communities seem to favour the more traditional horse drawn carriage hearse..which has its problems for emergency service vehicles
you have to be sharpish on the button to turn the noise off
several times i've had visions of causing a major Dave Allen sketch
could you imagine the hoo-hah
Great Uncle Albert last seen disappearing off through a park with a bolting horse and hearse, with flowers flying everywhere. Wouldn't be a career move would it.
|
Surprised no one has mentioned Appleby horse fair in Westmoreland - last week.
Big problems each year on the A66 as horse and carts walk along the dual carriageway to the fair.
Two fatals in the last five years.
In both, the horse and cart driver was killed and the driver of the the motorised vehicle - one was a car, one a lorry - went to prison.
Both slammed into the back of the horse and cart.
Lots of police warnings this year, including the large variable message boards at Scotch Corner.
|
If you haven't got a bucket and shovel ready to collect the horse's deposits, then your garden is missing a valuable treat...:-)
You can't really expect any horse rider to retain control of his/her animal and, at the same time, safely collect such deposits whilst using the roads; in any case rain will clear it eventually.
Let us not forget either that horses provided a means of transport long before the invention of the internal combustion engine
|
"You can't really expect any horse rider to retain control of his/her animal and, at the same time, safely collect such deposits whilst using the roads"
Except there are loads (!) of examples in Europen cities (Bruges, Vienna etc) where they have a bag/collector thing on the horses rear end to collect the deposits.
Unlike my dad, who in the '50s used to always carry a bucket and shovel in his car boot to collect the deposits - he had wonderful roses in the garden and embarrassed children in the back of the car!
|
Let us not forget either that horses provided a means of transport long before the invention of the internal combustion engine
As did Shanks's pony. This doesnt mean I want to risk life and limb walking down the middle of winding country roads...Ban em all!!!
|
|
|
young horse riders on the road (...) either using their mobile phones or smoking a cig - surely this is more dangerous than using a motorist using a mobile whilst driving
I shouldn't think so.
As road users do the police ever stop and spot fine them?
Possibly, but not for that - inasmuch as policemen can't fine anyone.
Also - they leave great piles of cack on the road/pavements - I know dogs aren't allowed to do this as their owners get fined
Dog owners are sometimes not allowed let their animals to foul the footpath. Horses must not be ridden on the footpath... if a dog owner pushes the offending matter into the road, well - that's the end of it.
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 16/06/2008 at 23:41
|
|
All this reminds me of a Billy Connelly joke - he claimed his star sign was saggitarius - half man, half horse, so licensed to sh.. in the street!!
|
|
My uncle regularly used to go to the pub with his pony and trap. He parked it outside the pub and when he had had a skinful he got in/on the trap and went home. The pony would find its own way home and was as safe as if it was being directed by my uncle. So don't say that horses/ponies aren't safe to be on the road without adequate supervision. My uncle was never done for drunk driving. Laws were more sensible in those days.
Edited by L'escargot on 17/06/2008 at 07:40
|
|
Would not the solution to "wandering" horses just be to get one of those magnets we were talking about on the other thread and tie it round their neck? :)
|
"Would not the solution to "wandering" horses just be to get one of those magnets we were talking about on the other thread and tie it round their neck? :)
They beat you to it b308
www.ecomagnets.com/bioflow-horses.htm
|
|
|
|
Any horse kept at a riding stables or on livery will have public liability insurance - it will be a requirement of the stables.
Having exterminated horses in the interests of H&S, we should then move on to cows, sheep, deer, rabbits, pigeons, owls, pheasants, children, and other vermin.
All roads should be completely netted over to stop any form of life intruding on the ancient right of motorists to drive as fast as they like anywhere they like.
|
OK, point taken, but they should use the 'horse nappy' bag thingies.
And, maybe, just maybe... PAY ROAD TAX!!!
; )
|
Horses can be damaging.
A friend of mine owned a Frogeye Sprite with fibreglass front & rear ends. He was told by the previous owner that these were fitted at the same time, back in the 60's. Apparently, an owner of the car had a few too many and crashed into a tree, writing off the front end. A mounted policeman happened along to the impaled car (owner had scarpered), and got off to have a look. The police horse promptly had a heart attack and fell on the rear end of the car, writing that off.
Probably apocryphal, but amusing nonetheless.
On another point, horse manure may be nice for the roses, but not fun if you hit a deposit on a two-wheeler...
Alex.
|
|
My old dad bless him carefully opened a packet of tea -tipped tea out - collected and dried some horse muck - chopped it up fine and refilled the tea packet - sealed it up and dropped packet in street- those were days of horse drawn milk and coal carts --
|
|
|
|
>>And maybe just maybe... PAY ROAD TAX!!!
Why? It's cars that need the metalling on the roads, and lorries that rip them up. What damage do horses do to the road surface?
How many new roads have to be built because of increased horse congestion?
|
|
|
And maybe just maybe... PAY ROAD TAX!!!
I thought it was an environmental tax these days?
|
What's the CO2 output of a horse, and the methane levels are even more damaging!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Horses are good, I love seeing them on the road and enjoy slowing down around them.
|
Horses are good I love seeing them on the road and enjoy slowing down around them.
So do I, especially when there's two riders and they ride side by side chatting, oblivious to the 100 car queue behind....really starts you off right on your day
|
|
I always slow down for horses, especially when the young ladies' horses are trotting towards me on a summer's day.
|
|
A stash of recent top secret government policy documents was recently discovered at a roadside (not, unusually, on a tube train) but on closer inspection, was found to be a great stinking load of old, erm...
|
|
|
|
