I don`t think its the Police`s fault or the Councils front line officers. It seems to me its the paperwork that won`t allow assessment skills to be deployed prior to collecting the information required by the forms.
You just would not believe some of it if you have never worked in Local Government in recent times.
I expect Police to be no different with personal judgement and autonomy of response to be totally constrained by forms.
Well, lets just say (in recent years) that if I undertook an assessment for older peoples residential care (EXCLUDING finances) There were ten forms to fill which totalled 6 hours work and were half an inch thick at the end. They then had to be photocopied 8 times and sent to a `resource allocation panel`
Wait for it... with a `Case Summary` as no one had time or could make anything meaningful out of the forms which were just a plethora of information. At times we a slipped a totally non related form in `not noticed` to prove a point.
So, I humbly suggest, give some leeway to the poor souls in the front line services who have to cope with this.
In local government professional assessment skills have been quashed by tick box forms and many of my generation have left. I would be surprised If it were much different with Police when ringing about abandoned vehicles.
Regards
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times have changed
in the old days the phone call via 999 or local phone line would be answered by a rare breed...a warranted police officer. That person wouldn't be new either as it would take some years before they'd become eligible to have the course for working all the equipment and databases in the control room... so you got a degree of experience as well.
nowadays all those posts have been civilianised, because it saves money. The staff that receive the calls are often the most junior. They mean well, but can, at times, be clueless.
the same problem arises, in reverse, when the experienced police officer receives the call to deal with, as half the information can be missing and the correct questions haven't been asked
ho, hum, that's the world we now live in. The thread header should have read 'How pleasant was the police control room to you' There may well have been no police officer in there at all, anywhere, as the supervisor posts have been civilianised as well. Causes problems with 'pursuit policies' when a civilian manager who has never experienced any policing simply follows guidelines without knowing 'the score'.
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... simply follows guidelines ..
and 99.99% of the time they do not know that "guidelines" does not mean "tablets of stone".
I agree with both the posts above [by Westpig and oilrag]. It is nothing to do with PLOD, it is everything to with the politicians and the bureaucrats. Falkirk Bairn should direct his complaint at his Local Authority who control the PLOD in his area, and copy it to his Scottish Parliament MP and to Alex Salmond.
Edited by jbif on 28/05/2008 at 20:35
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Quite, it's only partly to do with plod.
Another thing: how pleasant do people expect plod to be, especially when some faffing citizen telephones when he is trying to do something else or longing for a pee? These are gruff keepers of order (or wimpish jobsworths if phone answering has been civilianised) and one doesn't expect courtly treatment from them. A gauche display of minimal civility is the best you can expect, and actual politeness is a bonus.
I regard plod as pleasant except when he is being deliberately unpleasant, although it's hard to tell the difference in a small number of cases.
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Probably down to priorities, when a five year old knocked on my door crying and lost, a call to the police local number resulted in a panda car, a traffic BMW, and a Transit van at my house within 5 minutes. He had yet to be reported missing, but problem quickly resolved. The police were very courtious, but I wasnt in the wrong or deliberatly winding them up.
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Hi Lud.
This is a difficult one!
Everyone has a bad day, everyone gets in a mood and the Police, simply by definition of their job, tend to get affected more than most. At the end of the day, 90% of their working day is dealing with problems and nasty people!
I am Plod and I try to be polite and courteous to everyone, whether they be a little old lady crossing the road, or a drunk reveller acting the fool. If being nice doesn't work, we can step it up a gear and be a little more firmer.
As I say, Police, by definition of their job, can be perceived to be grumpy/gruff - but please spare a thought for what that Officer may have had to deal with before coming to deal with the next person...
Let me give you an example of something that happened a week ago to a colleague of mine...
He had just worked 7 nights on the trot, finishing at 7am, getting into bed at 8am, sleeping through most of the day and not seeing his Family, before getting up, trying to do some things before being back on the beat at 11pm til 7am. He got three days off so the first day is gone by catching up on sleep. Two days off, then he started a run of 7 days - up at 5.30am to start at 7am til 5pm - quite difficult to do when your body has just got used to working nights!
Went into work, spent 3 hours on a constant observation of a drunk person with mental health issues. This involves sitting in front of an open cell door, listening to him calling him every name under the sun, abusing his kids, telling him how he was going to fornicate with my colleague's wife etc etc etc. Eventually, this person started spitting at him so the cell door was closed but the hatch had to remain open so the person could be watched... cell hatch open meant still trying to avoid the spit - a nice 3 hours - NOT!
Another colleague then took over, so my colleague went and started on the mountain of paperwork he had to do, most of which is useless Government red tape stuff.
He was then called out to an RTC where a young boy had been knocked over by a speeding motorist. We are not allowed to pronounce death, only medical people can (paramedics, Doctors etc.) but it was clear this young lad was dead and it was not a pretty sight. Once this little lad, who was five years old, was pronounced dead, my friend helped move him into the Coroner's ambulance then washed the blood away from the road. There was the obvious investigation of the road etc etc, all taking a few hours.
After that, he was called to a young lad driving fast up and down a residential road before he got a chance to grab some grub. The lad was spoken to and said to my friend all the usual things we hear - "Haven't you got something else better to do? Why don't you go catch some real criminals!" etc etc.
At this point, my colleague leant forward and rather firmly told him about the fatal RTC he had just dealt with and for the young lad to grow up.
I am NOT defending grumpy/gruff Police Officers - there are some out there who do need some lessons on being nice and courteous - but please spare a thought for what that Officer may have just had to deal with before arriving with you (and I don't mean you personally Lud :-)!)...
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Hi Driller. Your post agrees with mine I feel.
Just a point: I don't mean grumpy or rude when I use the word gruff. To me it means busily serious and no-nonsense, but not hostile or unfriendly as such. It's a neutral word.
You can't live to my age driving about on the cusps of legality without chatting to a few coppers, and I have chatted to plenty. I remember them being quite abrasive to me in my youth and more correct as I got older. Otherwise some of the individuals concerned have been pleasant and friendly, almost good company as it were (the more intelligent sort of Met copper is a witty soul even when there is 'something of the night' about him or her), and others have been hostile and unfriendly.
This is purely a matter of individual personality, good-cop/bad-cop clowning apart. Police officers are like other human beings, some excellent, some ghastly and most more or less OK if you get them in a good mood and they don't make any bizarre unwarranted assumptions about you.
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Hi Lud!
Sorry - get what you mean by 'gruff' now!
A lot of plod will be quite abrasive to the youths... some say it's to let them know who is boss and learn respect for their elders (whether they be Police, teachers, Parents etc.), whereas talking to older people, Plod can be nicer because older people are generally much more nicer anyway!
Nowadays, youths are so cocky/mouthy/lippy and they know what they can get away with and will keep pushing the boundaries - then moan if they get a mouthful from an Officer!
I hear so many people say they wish we could have the 'old' days of Policing back where you'd get a clip round the ear from the Officer, then one from your Dad when you got taken home and that was the end of it... I can't comment on that as I was not around in those days, but nowadays, because of Government guidelines (and them taking away our discretion!), CPS decisions, Human Rights, my colleagues and I find it so frustrating that we cannot just 'get on with the job'! I joined to help people, to safeguard my community, bring REAL criminals to justice, to make a difference - but all I seem to do is fill in forms and chase petty crimes just to help this Government say they are cracking down on crime :-(
Even so, I will be polite and courteous to everyone I meet - no matter how bad I am feeling at that time... if that person decides to not to be polite and courteous back, then I can be just as awkward back :-) !!
Take care and all the best!
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The key to it all is knowing where you are on the PC crime scale.
For example I am renting a flat overlooking a school for disabled children whilst I have my house refurbished.
The local yobs were causing a nuisance skateboarding in our private car park. Plod couldn't care less. So one female flat dweller fed up with her car being damaged for the nth time reported to plod that the yobs (circa 16 years old) were taking an unhealthy interest in the young girls at the school and making suggestive comments and gestures. They were cleaned out within a day and warned never to return.
Unethical but you have to play the system these days.
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Before this thread continuous down the usual well trodden path of Police bashing can we bring it back on topic ? The OP asked a question about the quality of service that he perceives that he had he didn't have - it was linked to motoring by the fact that it was linked to abandoned cars - I was tempted to lock it now. Unless something can be added to the OP's observation that may well be its fate.
Edited by Pugugly on 28/05/2008 at 21:26
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There are bad eggs in every profession, but the majority of police officers are doing a difficult job well. I lectured on financial awareness to the Fraud Squad a few years ago and there were a whole lot of interesting and intelligent people there - more than can be said for the civilians who slashed the training budget.
Edited by Avant on 28/05/2008 at 21:32
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The thread header should have read 'How pleasant was the police control room to you'
I agree to an extent with this. I called the police, directed to somewhere in Oxford, *miles* away, after witnessing an oik thrashing a brand new BMW up a "quiet" residential road near where I was visiting. I mentioned that 60+ in a 30 zone in 2nd. gear was not good, and that a garage in the vicinity (with a local reputation for "road testing" new cars) could do with a friendly visit, and that the car had obviously non-legal numberplates.
The "civilian" operative (actually the police are civilians too, you know) was sullenly ratty and rude. "How did I know?", etc. Well, sweetie, "BMW Z4M ROADSTER" is obviously illegal as a numberplate. "How do you know?", etc. I should have asked for a name, just to formally complain, but, incandescent with fury, I rang off. When I calmed down and rang again, to re-issue my complaint, and to cold-bloodedly complain about the operative, there was "no record" of my previous call, and "a community officer" would be advised of the speeding issue.
Hell's bells.
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Not very - I called to report a vehicle being vandalised - they asked me what my occupation was, where I'd been that evening, where was I now, why have I not intervened. Went on for over 5 minutes until I asked them - "Don't you want a description of the vehicle being vandalised?" Relunctantly, they said "Yes". So I told them - it's parked in a car park of an unattended police station. The car, by the way, is a Vauxhall Astra panda car reg no xxxx xxx".
Total silence on the other end of the line.
I hung up!
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Seems I am in the minority. All the dealings with the Police have left me impressed with them. First time was mid 90's, when I was pulled over for speeding. I was totally in the wrong, but was a supermarket manager at the time (biggest mistake I have ever made) and was answering an early hours alarm call (3rd day running, all triggered by delivery drivers). Police officer gave me the the third degree, but was polite throughout and let me on my way with a flea in my ear.
in recent years have called the Police 3 times. Twice for motoring issues, someone walking along the M5, the second a large object laying in lane one of the M5. Was using a number the local motorway service station had given me for the walker. Operator at the end of the phone was initially annoyed as I was using a direct police number, and he wanted to know why I had it and was using it, but once realised what I was calling about was very friendly and polite, and told me to use 999 if I ever saw something similar again.
Final time was for a burglary in recently vacated house next door to ours. Got all the details of what I had heard and seen, and if I had been obvious about seeing what was happening. 5 minutes later had a Police car and 2 PCs round. Within 15 minutes 2 more units and a dog handler, but burglars must have spotted me and were long gone. Officers were all very keen to capture them though.
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My only contact with the Boys & Girls in Blue for years was at night about a year ago, in Bournemouth. The town centre lights were as bright as day, which is probably why I drive off without mine on. I was quickly pulled over and a young constable checked my breath, licence and car details and sent me off with a courtous and friendly warning.
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