EEEEEK!!!!!
It certainly sounds like the starter motor on my 03 2.0TDCi Mondeo is screeching again. It screeches just the once when it does screech, but then turns over the engine on the second attempt. Also, it does not screech every time, i.e., only when the engine is very cold. Even after only a 1.5 mile trip the restart is okay.
The current starter was brand new in April and so is at least is still under warranty. I do hope it is not a disintegrating flywheel.
With any luck it is either a duff starter or the current road and temperature conditions have caused the starter to lose its lubrication.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 21/12/2007 at 18:50
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If the starter isn't engaging the flywheel teeth on a TDCi; I'd get a DMF in before even taking it apart - particularly if a new starter hasn't fixed it.
Does it knock when you switch it off?
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Don't wish to worry you but we get a LOT of Transit tdci and Mondeo tdci starter problems and 90% of the time its the flywheel giving up the ghost, taking the starter with it- the dust from said self destructing flywheel gets into the starter and ruins it. So much so that our supplier (one of the very big ones!) is getting to be VERY difficult with warranty returns and have sent us a technical bulletin saying as much.
Currently driving: 2007 SEAT Ibiza TDi
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Don't know about the 'switching off knock' as my wife usually drives the car, but when I drove it on Thursday I didn't hear any thing noticeably different when switching off.
When the problem ocurred the las time, I did ask the Ford dealer to look a the flywheel. Their comment was that 'no, it's definitely the starter. I do trust somewhat them as I have used them for MOTs and servicing.
We are not experiencing any clutch problems.
How would a disintegrating flywheel manifest itself? Problems in moving away from a standstill?
I will see whether they can hav a look tomorrow.
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The standard Ford test is to remove the starter and look for metal dust in it's nose.
If there is any - fit a DMF and a starter. If it gets so bad that it starts to affect the clutch - worry!
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It does not (and didn't last time) affect the clutch. After the last starter motor was removed I did ask to have it for inspection, but was told 'certainly sir, but it will cost another 50 odd quid' and so I declined.
I get the sense that if it gets bad enough to affect the clutch then the starter would be completely shot by then and not turn the engine over in a million years.
I would hope that the Ford garage did inspect for metal debris last time around.
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If it starts to affect the clutch it's on the point of disintegrating; if that happens, it's a new engine and gearbox.
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Thankfully it does not seem anywhere near affecting the clutch at present, although from what you are saying it is only a matter of time.
Therefore I'd like to think that it is only the starter as the Mondeo gets at least 6 cold starts per day (1.5 miles doesn't not warm anything up).
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a very good time to sell, these are best on lease when someone pays for the repairs
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As I have posted on here before, my friend who fixes Diesels does a steady trade in replacing starters on the TDCI's. The tell-tail is metal filings in the nose.
There is nothing you can do other then have the starter removed and ask them to check for metal. My mates advice is to bung a new starter on and sell the car....
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could it not just be the gear on the shaft of the starter getting tight cos its "dry"
a for tdci flywheels, are they dual mass like the transits with a rubber centre section?
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just read Honest John's review of the MK 111, and his last sentence in the recalls bit says quote " 13/10/07 Voluntary Recall letter to owners of TDDIs and TDCIs to replace faulty dual mass flywheels. " - my 119,000 miles 01/51 TDDi is doing the same - does this mean I will get a new DMF free? ( and indeed all of us with this problem?)
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>>could it not just be the gear on the shaft of the starter getting tight cos its "dry"<<
This is partly my thinking, what with all the salt on roads and the cold temperatures.
I hope that there is some merit in this DMF recall. I don't fancy coughing up for its replacement.
The car started okay this evening after 4 hours in the cold...
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Well, screeched again (twice) first thing this morning. Dealer can't look at the car till Monday.
Good job that I have a reliable Alfa.
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My car,also a Ford of course,has done this on occasion for years.No evidence of metallic wear when replacing.There again I don't have the benefits,or concerns,of a DMF.
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Went in to see them today.
Yes sir its the starter (the flywheel and the clutch), but they hadn't looked at it properly yet. That will happen on the 27th.
After some discussion, I may get 35% goodwill from Ford to the approx £1200 bill. The starter of course still being under warranty as this was replaced back in April.
Anyway, I happen to have an RAC warranty (the Ford dealer even has an account with them!). So, after a long discussion I may have to pay as little as £200 to get another starter, a new flywheel and a clutch.
I suppose that lot will then last (just) another 60k miles. What a load of rubbish. Gloating about 50mpg is just not worth the hassle!!!!!!
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Perhaps suggest to them that the mis-diagnosed previously and shouldnt have simply fitted a new starter when the cause was clearly otherwise, you might get the £200 knocked off.
Have you had it from new? Perhaps a previous owner abused it, that being said 60k is not uncommon for a clutch though my TDCi is in 124k with no clutch etc issues - touch wood!
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Right.
The Dealer removed the gearbox, the starter and the flywheel. The bonding of the flywheel was in good condition with no sign of deterioration!! The clutch was also in good condition considering the 70k miles.
The teeth (all of them) of the flywheel were wrecked and covered in debris and the starter was full of debris.
The dealer figured that a faulty starter motor was fitted in April 2007. Its mechanism did not retract fully after engaging the engine resulting in the teeth of the flywheel being nibbled away over a period of 7 months before the debris was sufficient in the starter to prevent this operating correctly.
Today the dealer put this to Ford. Ford have agreed that they would pick up the bill for a new starter, flywheel and all of the labour (the starter was still under their warranty).
I should get the car back on 2nd January. I have elected to leave the clutch as is. It was recommended that if I were to change the clutch, that the clutch slave cylinder be renewed as well. This would have cost over £300. As the clutch was found to be in good condition I think that it should last another 50k miles easily.
Chedder: we have had the car since 1 year and 22k miles old.
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Sounds fair to me, the only question I would have is whether any debris from the starter/flywheel could do some long term damage to the clutch etc, I would get the delaer to confirm that it is all cleaned out and to confirm in writing that they fitted a faulty starter for future reference if any related probs occur.
If the clutch is fine then not worth changing, mine has done nearly twice that, though out of interest £300 is a little steep as there is minimal labour to charge as it is dismantled, did you get a cost breakdown?
Regards.
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A free DMF - result! I'm not buying the "failure to retract" bit; a starter dog stuck in mesh makes the sort of noise that keeps Banshees awake! You'd have noticed - even your good lady might have noticed.
Far more likely is that the starter was remanufactured with the wrong drive - that destroys ring gears quite effectively.
I'd go for at least a new clutch driven plate while they were in there.
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"third party and warranty" are the three words that spring to mind now.
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New clutch at £150 and new slave cylinder at £125.
The Dealer was Ford Lutterworth, where I have taken the car for three years now. Their records will hopefully show the work that has been carried out or the components replaced at the very least.
Anyway, at least with a new starter and DMF, these now both have a 1 year warranty on them.
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Anyway at least with a new starter and DMF these now both have a 1 year warranty on them.
Probably not.
the DMF will probably have a years warranty, the starter motor will probably have 5 months warranty.
(it was changed 7 month ago, and the new one is defective within its year warranty - you still only get the year warranty of the first one)
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If you are going to keep the car for any length of time you are, with respect, bonkers if you don't change the clutch at the same time.
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I did consider this. The car does approximately 12k miles per year. So if the clutch lasts another 60k miles, then that's 5 years at which point I may change the car anyway. It is a calculated risk.
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The clutch is 70k old. Changing it while that lot is out is really cheap compared to the cost of doing it later.
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I think you'll get a better price when you do sell for a car with a 60k-old clutch versus a 130k-old one.
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To those of you long enough in the tooth, this sounds very much like the problem experienced on the automatic versions of the Triumph 2000/2500 models back in the mid 1970's. This was proved to be the starter motor pinion milling the teeth on the flywheel ring-gear because the pinion was not engaging fully. Lucas redesigning the starter motor cured the matter. However if the ring gear damage was sufficiently damaged, it had to be changed as well.
Hope this helps.
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>>New clutch at £150 and new slave cylinder at £125.>>
Despite the fact that the clutch in mine is fine at 125k I agree with others and would have the clutch done in a 70k car while it is apart.
After all you are saying that you plan to keep it.
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