Does anyone have a cross-reference for Kwik-fit part numbers? My partner recently had the front section of her exhaust changed but the invoice shows two priced parts. We are a bit concerned that she has been charged for something that hasn't been done, so if someone can make some sense of the part numbers that will help explain this to us. The very strange thing is that she had another part of the exhaust done last year and the same part number appears on both invoices, but there is only a charge against it on one of the invoices.
The parts on the most recent invoice are:
PT7006 106 1.4 9196 KFP
PT351 106 1.6 9599 SCP
The earlier invoice had PT351 but also had:
CISA118 Saxo 1.6 9697 H/B
The earlier invoice was for the back box on the exhaust, the more recent one was for the down-pipe from the engine. Also, I note that some parts seem to be for the 1.6 engine - are these common parts or could it be that they have charged her for the wrong parts? Hers is one of the very first Saxos, on an 'N' plate, if this makes any difference. (Our main concern is that £135 seems very OTT for just the downpipe. I've inspected the car and that is all that seems to have been changed.)
I hope this isn't counted as naming-and-shaming, I can see no way of asking this without mentioning the company in question! I'm also not implying they have done anything wrong, we just want to be sure things are as they should be as they don't seem to tie up.
Thanks in advance.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/10/2007 at 00:40
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I've just had a quick look on the Bosal site, and it seems that the front pipe and cat on a '96 Saxo are specific to the engine, but the 1.4i and 1.6i both share the same type of centre section and back box. I wonder if theyve charged her for a centre section by mistake?
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Son was charged £45 for a Saxo 1.1 fornt pipe without cat.. last year.
madf
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought - indeed, the AA man said he thought it could just be welded rather than needing changing. I did tell her not to use Kwik-fit if they wanted more than about £60 but you know what women are like... :)
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How many parts are there to a Saxo exhaust? I know she hasn't had the cat done either of the last two times. All that 'looks new' this time is the part from the engine itself down to a joint beneath the engine.
She needs to take it back as something is rattling - I think the new downpipe is fouling the (gearbox?) casing so it would be handy to know for then it we need to bring up the price issue.
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Just found the system on the Bosal website - www.catalogue.bosal.com/pages/exh_select_order_lis...0
The only part that has been changed this time is 741-001. There appear to be a lot of clamps, bolts and gaskets associated with this, but surely not even Kwik-fit could justify over £50 for these?
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We'd rather have a feeling as to whether the question has any justification - it could easily be interpreted that we are accusing them of ripping us off. I don't know a lot about cars but the price she was charged does sound a bit high so I thought it best to see if anyone else thought it was reasonable or not before taking it further.
I have emailed kwik-fit customer services but I don't expect and answer - these sort of companies very, very rarely bother to reply to emails.
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You could phone a different branch of Kwik Fit and get a quote for a front pipe to see roughly what they would normally charge. If they really have just replaced the front pipe it shouldn't be anywhere near as much as £135 for a Saxo.
Why not take it back and ask them to show you which part/s they have changed? No need to be confrontational, just say you wonder if there's been a mistake as the cost seems high.
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We did think of trying another branch, but she's not sure what to ask and I'm not free during the day to phone. If we can't get it sorted by Friday I'll try then. One thing I am wondering, I know they got one part in and found it was the wrong one and had to send off for another - I hope they've not charged her for both...
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Why be confrontional-just ask them to explain the bill!
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- I hope they've not charged her for both...
Perhaps they have. Phone them and ask, as unfortunately my crystal ball is suffering from an Anti Pollution Fault this morning ;-)
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It's always more money if you split up a full system they offer a discount for the full lot or they did when i worked for a fast fit firm a few years ago!
im guessing those parts are front pipe and centre section not the back box, best ring another depot as said they will help you!
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Well, we've sorted the mystery and unfortunately it's a bit of a mix of confusion and misunderstanding. What they have done is changed the front pipe and the middle section. Now, the middle section was changed last year along with the back box, but SWMBO (who knows nothing about cars) just told them the back had been done. To her, they had done something at the back and she simply didn't know what the parts were called.
They are now refusing the honour the guarantee on the middle section, as they have now disposed of it. Is this reasonable? I'm not sure either way, I know it would have been better it she'd shown the invoice from last year at the time, but she wasn't expecting anything other than the front to need doing (from what the AA man said) and has no knowledge of the make-up of an exhaust system so didn't know what was being done or had been done in the past. I'm surprised they didn't spot that the middle was fairly new anyway, but we can't tell if it was actually in need of replacement or if they've just seen her coming.
However, another problem has cropped up. She mainly took it back as there was a rattle coming from the exhaust. They have located the problem and apparently it is the heat-shield on the CAT that has come loose. They are talking £200 to fix this. Now, I'm not sure what the situation should be here - it was fine when it went in so something that has happened in there has caused the problem. Does this make them responsible for rectifying the problem, or is it just hard luck on her? Also, another garage reckons they can just remove the heat shield to solve the problem. I'm very worried about this - surely a heat shield is there for a reason! Can anyone comment? Also, does anyone know if this is bolted or welded on and if there are any ways we could repair rather than remove or replace?
Any suggestions would be most welcome!
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The heat shield is put on to protect the environment(long grass etc.)from high temperatures and is a legal requirement on NEW cars.
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I think they may have backed themselves into a corner here. It may well be worthwhile approaching trading standards.
Why did they change the centre section?
1. If it needed changing, it seems it was covered by warranty. They should refund at least that part of the cost.
2. If it didn't need changing, then they're effectively admitting charging for unnecessary work.
What do the BRs with greater legal knowledge say?
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i assume 1100 engine or even 954
the front pipes on these are /can be a bit labour intensive to remove if been on a long time
they bolt to the cat with silly long threads and springs
the cat bolts to the centre section,cant remember if they have a back box but will take your word for it
these front pipes break in front of the cat and probably what happened is it strained the centre section when it was bust so they replaced this as well,the cats arent too strong either and may well have broken during the front pipe breakage
it does seem odd that they have replaced a year old pipe but to be honest i would take the car back get the" manger" to put your car on a ramp and ask him to explain everything that happened
do not buy a cheap cat these only last a year and will fail next mot ,sorry cant really help anymore,maybe next time take it to your friendly local small independant garage to suss out and save you money, because if your town is anything like mine these small workshop guys are shutting down quicker than waiting for a no 11 bus
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If you can tell us the engine size I might be able to help you a bit more. (I work for a motor factors). Most cat's available in the aftermarket carry a two year guarantee these days (usually no-quibble, although some do ask for an emission test, both before & after replacement.), our cat's come with an information pack detailing causes of failure & how to rectify them, which should be done BEFORE replacing the original. How many times this is actually done is anyone's guess however!!
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The car is a 96 'N' plate 1.4 Saxo. Any advice you can give would be most appreciated!
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The heat shield is put on to protect the environment(long grass etc.)from high temperatures and is a legal requirement on NEW cars.
A query on this - the heat shield is on the top of the CAT, between it and the bodywork. I can't see this being to protect long grass so is a heat shield of this type necessary, or has it been fitted the wrong way around and should it be beneath the CAT?
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Well it wasn't fine when it went in otherwise you wouldnt have took it would you!
There right in saying no refund as there is no part to refund against it as been scrapped,if you showed proof of invoice at the time all would be ok, after all the fitter has no idea how long you have owned the car for.
As for the cat take off the heat sheild or weld it back on,it should be ok without it, there for cooling and not setting fire to dry grass not much chance of that this time of year!
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When I say it was OK when we took it in, I mean the CAT was fine - it wasn't banging or ratting the way it does now. The AA man tied the front section back on with some wire and even like that there was no rattling. However, after we got it back from Kwik-fit it did rattle and bang which suggests to me that the damage was done not when the front pipe broke but when the parts were changed.
As for the refund, she has had advice from the CAB (where she volunteers) that the fact the part has been scrapped does not matter. She's going to ask about the timing aspect of things next time she is in - I sort of agree with you that she should have checked at the time (or paid attention when I told her not to pay more than £60 without checking with me first!) but you can also argue that someone with no knowledge of car exhausts is unlikely to know what has been done when in any detail, especially when they weren't expecting the part in question to need changing.
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Complain to their head office, if you haven't done so already. In my experience, big companies in the motor trade aftermarket are pretty good about handling customer complaints.
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The exhaust is in 4 sections.
Working backwards -
Downpipe
Cat
Centre silencer
Rear silencer
The downpipe is secured to the exhaust manifold by three studs and nuts and to the cat with a spring loaded connection. In addition the downpipe has a securing bolt to the gearbox casing.
The flexible joint is to prevent engine vibration damaging the rest of the system.
It seems odd that a fault in the downpipe would cause subsidiary damage to the centre silencer as the catalyst sits between them. There should have been no need to drop the rest of the exhaust and definitely no need to touch the heat shield which is attached to the floor of the car. The only way that could be damaged is by clumsy/careless/violent wrenching around of the exhaust.
I would be complaining that
a. parts were replaced that did not need replacing
b. the bill was not correctly explained
c. their fitter has damaged the heat shield
Edited by bignick2 on 12/11/2007 at 15:08
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