Avant
I know what you mean - to be honest I'm worried about being anywhere near a courtroom with these guys around as I'm sure some of their 'associates' will be there as well - I understand they are from a gang of 30+ thugs in the Manchester area (close to the city centre...).
One part of me says do all I can to get them sent down, the other says just leave the whole thing alone and get on with life.
Also, I'm not sure what I will have to do - I certainly won't be able to identify them.
I will be speaking to the court prior to deciding what to do.
jdc
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For what it is worth. I think you should go because it is for you. I won't, under any circumstances be put down by these types regardless of the risk because something inside me will not allow that to happen and if they took it further and it reached the ultimate conclusion then I would still be in there. That probably makes me sound or look stupid, but I would die for it if I believed. I am not the hard man type, I just will not suffer the carp that these deadheads seem to think they can put out. I will not capitulate.
However, that is just my make up and so be it, but there are times when little miscreants put me off retaliating as if they have enormous powers and that doesn't make any sense either.
I am now probably repeating myself from a post from a couple of years ago, (but I do not know how to search such things!!).
Some years ago I witnessed an arrogant lorry driver crush and old mans bicycle which was tied against a lamp post, (on the road side of the pavement), but clear of the kerb, but due to the slight bias of the road the tail swing of the lorry would catch it. I saw the potential and warned the drive who basically told me to flog off so I did. He then proceeded and crushed said bike. I stopped the lorry , called BIB and they sorted it. Would I be a witness. Yes I said. Couldn't wait to see the swine nicked...couldn't wait. Read the forms, pitched up, best bib and tucker as you do and waited 3 parts of the day. For the majority of that day I had to suffer oiks sitting on the courts stairs, (inside) drinking cans of Special brew etc. Burping, Swearing and being generally blobnoxious. A court usher spent half of her day apologising to me for their behaviour and bless the old girl, there seemed nothing in her powers that she could do. IIRC there was at the time an option in the paperwork that said that to have your home address not read out in court you had to request that at the court on the day. I did request that, but boy did it take some getting through to the court 'officials'.
I for the reasons stated above will not go and witness for a third party. The CPS are in a mess as most of the BIB will tell you and it is mostly a numbers game. You need to know, with respect, what, if any of your input will have on the possibilty of a decent conviction. If you can't identify them as you have stated then with my VERY limited knowledge I respectfully suggest that unless the BIB can prove by other means, that the accused are 'bang to rights' it sounds like a loser and I wonder at the sense of more trauma. Pug or West P are definitely better placed than I to advise. Mine is NOT advice. It is purely an opinion.
I wish you and your family all the best.................Martin D.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/10/2007 at 01:56
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Hi JDC
If you are really worried about going to Court, you should contact the Witness Care Team (which is probably a joint CPS and Police unit in Lancashire). Their contact details should be on the witness warning letter you received.
They will put you in touch with independent witness support workers who can help you through the process, incluidng offering you support at Court.
You should also ask about "special measures". In some cases, the prosecution can ask the Court to allow special steps to help a witness through giving evidence. This can include giving evidence from behind a screen so you cannot be seen by the defendants or any supporters they may have in the public gallery. Alternatively, witnesses may be allowed to give evidence using video-link, so they don't even have to be in the same courtroom as the accused.
There is a lot of support out there for witnesses if you seek it out. I always tell people going to Court as a witness is a bit like going to the dentist. The thought beforehand is usually a lot more scary than the actual experience turns out to be.
One other point you should bear in mind. Many criminals bank on witnesses not turning up at Court and this is the only reason why they plead not guilty. When they are told the witness has turned up, many defendants decide they are guilty after all and change their plea without the witness having to go into the witness box.
I can't guarantee this will happen in your case, but I would encourage you to support the case.
Good luck
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Much more positive than my experiences and one that sounds very encouraging.
Times have moved on.
MD
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MD your experiance is exactly the one i had last time i went to court as a witness,ok its a while ago but i never forget the waiting and the drinking of "blood" by the irks waiting to get community service and ten bob a week fines paid for out of their dole.
no offence jdc please do as you feel best but make sure the opinion of your wife is taken into account
good luck
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jdc - your son, your wife and you are well. That is the most important thing and in your shoes despite my natural bravado I'd do everything to keep it that way.
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ANPR cameras - they don't work very well, actually.
Your latest experience in your stolen cars saga just goes to prove that computers are only as good as the data input. In this case, wrong.
Just remember, databases like this decide if your car isn't taxed and crushes it, when in fact it may well have been.
Too much faith is put into the horrendously excessive number of CCTV cameras that now litter the country.
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jdc only you can decide on this one.
My tuppence worth is that you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. the crime was nothing against you personally, the thugs just needed to do the stealing and unfortunately you and your family were on the receiving end of it.
Chances are that none of the thugs would be able to identify you or your family just now. However, if you are stood up in a court in front of them, and their friends, giving evidence, then, without trying to scare you, you may become more recognisable to them!
Also remember you are in the unfortunate position of them not needing your address read out to know where you live?
A truly difficult one, do you do the right thing for society, or for your family?
--
2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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I would not give evidence. I would make sure each one was identified to my satisfaction and each one would individually suffer terrible accidents at a later date. Terrible debilitating hit and run* type accidents.
* motoring link dont you know
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
Edited by Altea Ego on 23/10/2007 at 00:05
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Correct attitude in an immoral sort of way AE, quite acceptable to me and I am sure others.
A lot easier and cheaper said than done however.
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Bobb G. Brilliant post and one which may need reading 2-3 times. First class and probably so right.
A.E. I would be grateful if you would forward me a form to join your club.
Lud. A lot easier and cheaper said than done however. How true.
These truly horrendous Scum Bags deserve hardship for life. Get any of them on their own and most are just Pussies.
VBR..............MD.
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MD - Hardship for life = Top Idea! However, the sub-human who blinded a 97 year old pensioner got a 3 year supervision order! Here tinyurl.com/34k679
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'They' seem to be a different shade these days don't they. I'll mail you something if I can find it. How much longer are we going to put up with this carp from uneducated dross. If it was a Dog you would shoot it. I know I would. I am now fifty and can remember my teens and happy family life and cannot, for the life of me remember any of the nonesense we see now, (I so want to swear and I WANT TO SWEAR A LOT). I am at desperation point with these scumbags, but the thing that I notice and notice the most is this. Try and complain to anybody under say 40 years old and you are talking to a wall! Nearly everybody has become conditioned to this mess and I firmly believe that.
Vin Rouge, (not french)................EM DEE.
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Martin i agree with you but i think its brainwashing thats really happened.
Armitage, that link with the poor old chap being punched. Beyond belief did the thing that punched him sprout wings and fly into hell as it left the tram? Cant really call it the behaviour of a human.
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This is just an opinion, but people like jdc's robbers are practical press-on types although of course very bad and stupid. I very much doubt if they or their friends will risk persecuting honest citizens who have given honest evidence. They will have moved on and got into some new trouble or be planning some new mischief.
As for the lunatic who hit the poor old man in the tram, the judge was right not to send him to jail. That would help no one. The guy is a certified madman and two wrongs don't make a right. He belongs in hospital, a secure one for everyone else's sake. There may be some reason, perhaps shortage of appropriate institutional space, why the ghastly fellow has been released. There may be an appeal and another judge may pass a better sentence.
Dangerous lunatics have been imposed on the 'community' - us - for some years now. Apparently the government can't afford to keep them reliably out of mischief any more. If you were a psychiatrist, would you take a government job and accept, or try to wriggle out of, responsibility for the results of current policy? I certainly wouldn't.
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