Thanks for that....
I read about metal particles getting into the system from impropper running in, on another thread, I hope it isn't that (sounds expensive).
The car only started doing this after 5 years and 79,000, and the problem does go away when they fit a new starter motor.
Also, the car either starts or doesn't. it's never 'difficult' to start. I either get the engine turing noise, and it starts, or i get the whine and it doesn't.
Anyway, took it back into Ford to have a look at. They think it may be a corroded 'loop' from the battery to the starter motor.
Does this sound possible?
Thanks again...
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James
Metal particles in the fuel [the other £000's fault on TDCi's] is something different.
If the starter motor is spinning - but not engaging the drive: then it's not the wiring.
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Friend of mine is a Diesel repairer and replaces a hell of a lot of starters on TDCI's (Mondeo's, Transits etc). Normally when the old one is taken off there is metal swarf in the starter nose - this is due to the dual-mass flywheel failing - the swarf is thrown out by centrifugal force and some of it bungs up the starter. A new starter fixes it for a while and then its back later for a new DMF/clutch assembly. You are looking at a big sum for that job.
This could be a good time to replace the starter and quickly sell the car, preferably via auction or trade-in, rather than to gullible private buyer. There's plently of buyers out there who know that Diesels are cheap to run......
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i find it amazing that all the ford dealers will know about this problem but one has decided to change the sympton rather than the cause
its not under one of their warranties is it?
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But BB, its a win-win situation.
If under warranty then it might delay the really expensive job until its out of warranty.
If its NOT under warranty then they get to charge for a couple of starters before smacking the customer for the £1k clutch/DMF job.
Anyway, in this particular example its going to be out of warranty becuase its an '02 car and no aftermarket warranty will cover the 'clutch' will it (its a wear and tear item...)... LOL!
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Thanks for that guys, the situation sounds pretty grim.
Is there any way the dealer can check to see if it is the DMF/clutch?
Just in case they tell me it's the starter again, and try to make me pay for it.
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Well, pull the starter out and if there's swarf on it then its 100% certain to be DMF.
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Thanks Aprilia,
If they tell me it's the starter motor then, I'll ask if they are sure it's not the flywheel, and tell them to check for swarf.
Is this a fault they should be aware of then?
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It might be that the dealer does know what they are talking about, a wiring issue could cause the starter to turn but not engage.
However if it is swarf from the DMF clogging the starter then the dealer was wrong to simply replace the starter so should credit you with the cost of fitting the first new starter IMO, or should at least offset that cost against the DMF job.
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It might be that the dealer does know what they are talking about, a wiring issue could cause the starter to turn but not engage.
cheddar
That would be a new one on me - you'll need to explain, in detail, how that circumstance can come about with a pre-engaged starter.
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That would be a new one on me - you'll need to explain in detail how that circumstance can come about with a pre-engaged starter.
Indeed. On a PE starter the motor circuit is not completed until the pinion has been thrown out by the solenoid.
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>>That would be a new one on me >>
Indeed. >>
I was thinking reduced current could cause the solonoid not to function fully allowing the starter to turn without engaging?
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Just had a phonecall from my dealer.
He said, just as you guys predicted, that it was the DMF, he's quoted about £920 for the job...(does that seem fair to you)... they will do the starter motor free.
Now have to sit down with the wife, who will no doubt require a detailed explanation of what a DMF is, and why it costs £920 to repair, then then book it in tomorrow.
Some adivce though..... In your opinions, is the repair worth it, i mean is it likley to keep playing up even after the repair has been done? could some little metal bits still stay in the system, and again mess up my flywheel?
Thanks again
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Yes, the price is about on the button for a dealer job. If the bellhousing is cleaned out properly of the swarf then it should last as long again. Be a good idea to have a new clutch slave installed at the same time (see if they included that in the quote).
You need the weigh up whether its worth repairing this car. I must say that to me a 5 year old 76k TDCI is like a hand-grenade with the pin out (financially speaking). I'd mackle it together with a reckon starter and rapidly p/x it for something likely to cost less. If your doing less than about 20k miles a year get a new Mondeo 1.8 or 2.0 petrol and sleep a little easier (no DMF, no ruinously expensive Diesel injection faults). Just IMHO though.
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I must say that to me a 5 year old 76k TDCI is like a hand-grenade with the pin out (financially speaking). I'd mackle it together with a reckon starter and rapidly p/x it for something likely to cost less. If your doing less than about 20k miles a year get a new Mondeo 1.8 or 2.0 petrol and sleep a little easier (no DMF no ruinously expensive Diesel injection faults). Just IMHO though.
A point of view, on the otherhand if you get another 40k out of it you will save best part of £1000 in fuel over a petrol with no expensive cambelt changes required (I know a petrol Mondeo is also cam chain though many cars are not).
My '02 TDCi is on 121k (no DMF probs yet), drives as new - literally, I should know I have had it from new, saved a fortune in cambelt changes, £600 + at 60k on previous Vectra V6, and a bigger fortune in fuel.
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James
I'd have to agree wholeheartedly with Aprilia's every word.
I don't like the thought of "passing-on" a fault; but - although I deeply admire what Ford have achieved - this is one of those cars that is now too dangerous to own.
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I recently saw a very straight looking 03 plate TDCi on forecourt for £2995 - I'd be following Aprilia's advice and fixing this one up cheaply and chopping it in - asap
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£920 does not seem too bad assuming it includes the clutch? Not worth taking it all apart on a 79k car and not replacing the clutch, also the clutch slave is in the bell housing and is worth replacing while it is apart, that should not cost much and the price quoted will include bleeding the system.
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£920 does not seem too bad assuming it includes the clutch?
Cough, choke.!!!
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>> £920 does not seem too bad assuming it includes the clutch? Cough choke.!!!
>>Yes, the price is about on the button for a dealer job. >>
Is it expensive or not Aprilia?
Or do you mean that any indy would be cheaper? Well I would not have that kind of job done by an indy unless I trusted them absolutely 100%, reckon better off with the guys who represent the company that built it IMO, people who will have done the job dozens of times, who know the pitfalls and have the TSBs etc, the manufacturer back up to hand - unless, as I say you can trust the indy 100%.
Regards.
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Is it expensive or not Aprilia?
The price is about right for main dealer. What I meant was that its a dreadfully involved (and therefore expensive) job. Fords are supposed to be the working man's car - I think they need to look at the design of their cars with a view to reducing repair costs. They are getting dear to fix (parts prices and labour times).
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I was thinking reduced current could cause the solonoid not to function fully allowing the starter to turn without engaging?
That can't happen. That's what a PE starter is designed not to do. Usually on a PE starter if the starter is spinning but the engine is not turning then its mechanical trouble with the pinion/clutch assy. Either clutch slipping, pinion teeth (or sometimes F/wheel teeth) worn off, or mechanism choked with swarf.
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No doubt the dreaded dual mass flywheel has advantages, although as I don't know what a DMF is I have no idea what they are.
But I have read here many times that it is a troublesome and expensive piece of kit that can be replaced with a more traditional arrangement. Surely if a DMF goes that is the thing to do? It should be cheaper too.
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Thanks for all your advice guys....
I've decided to go for the repair job, I need the car to last another 3 years / 40,000.
I know I'm risking another costly job, but if the clutch and DMF is done now, then hopefully it should hold for that long. and just fingers crossed for the injectors.
Wish I'd known about all this before i bought the car, Did a fair bit of research, and thought the mondeo was a pretty reliable machine. Oh well, I'll get something Japanese of German next time.
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Best to avoid a diesel completely. That way you largely escape the DMF nonsense, alternator clutches, ruinously expensive injectors and fuel pumps, noise, clatter, smoke... All a very expensive way of getting an extra 10to 15 MPG.
A 1.8 Mondeo should give high 30's if driven sensibly.
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Seconded Xileno and non of that horrible smell ,its alright for me likkle truk but i donar want it in me cor.
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something Japanese of German next time.
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There is a post here about Avensis clutch failure at 10 or 15k miles, not uncommon, 1400 quid! Also Warranmy direct figures show Fords have less fuel system probs than Toyota. Also according to Which etc Ford are pretty good compared to VW etc of late too.
Re the Mondeo, run it on BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power diesel, its worth the extra.
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Thanks.
Will be sticking to Diesel though, I prefer the drive and the mpg. just comes down to personal preference i guess.
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