Any advise would be most appreciated !
On cold start up (usually) a large cloud of greyish smoke comes out of the exhaust (I can smell it whilst sat in the car) and the revs seems to hunt a little until the engine gets warm - my local Ford main dealer couldnt find anything wrong and I am about to ask him to look again.
Once warmed up the car drives normally and fuel consumption is unchanged.
Many thanks.
{Subject header amended to include problem - DD}
|
|
Not sure, could be a sooted EGR valve, run it on BP Ultimate (or add Millers diesel stuff) and give it 10 miles on the motorway holding about 2700 to 3000 revs so use 5th rather than get nicked for cruising at 90 to 100.
|
|
|
Diesels smoke when starting up from cold. My Passat does for a short while but I do not usually smell it in the car.
Maybe an MOT smoke test would allay any doubts for little outlay?
|
|
|
Yep I agree with cheddar. Has this one had the ECU update because they are known to do it after update. Worth checking out mondeo forum.
When it starts cold try holding the rev's at 1250 & then 1750 & then 2250 see if it appears to misfire, if so injectors need recoding.
It shouldn't smoke on start up. I have a 2.2TDCi & no smoke whatsoever even when you boot it flat out
|
Hi Injector Doc - can you please explain where the "mondeo forum" is !
Also, should the Ford main dealer know about this issue - am worried they will try and fob me off again saying the computer showed up no faults.
Many thanks for your help.
|
I would change your dealer or go & make some fuss. Take a photo on a digi camera & take it in & show them when it smokes on start up, it shouldn't. I have been trying to find the web site as its not in my book marks but can't find at present. It will more than likely be an injector issue so follow cheddars advice first, then if you can find someone independant to remove & drain fuel filter into a container & check for contamination or water in system. If you get none get a report & photo then go to ford dealer & if they say your problem is water contamination you can then produce the evidence that its not! but dont offer the info untill they mention it. Some dealers are using contaminated fuel as a get out clause.
If I can find forum discussing smoking issue with mondeo TDCis I will forward
Doc
|
|
My 2.0 TDCi does the same - I think its just a little bit of excess/unburnt diesel coming through. I suspect the injectors are leaking a little diesel through into the cylinders overnight. My previous BMW 330d did the same thing (also at about 60,000 miles, the same as my mondeo). I've just been ignoring it - it doesn't seem to affect normal use beyond the first 5-6 seconds.
|
|
Might it be fordmondeo dot org you are looking for?
|
Hi folks,
My car has finally been fixed and so I thought I should post a summary of the work undertaken by my local Ford main dealer.
After your initial help I advised that the smoking was still there and also it was misfiring under light throttle.
They had the car for the best part of two weeks (they gave me a courtesy car so no problem) and the repair work was all done under warranty as it is only 27 months old and has done 34,400 miles.
I asked for a copy of the warranty invoice to Ford and together with various telephone updates, the work undertaken was as follows :
After initial injector leak off tests, Ford Tech. requested they (the Ford dealer) carry out a cylinder pressure test - this showed up low pressure in cyl 3 - they were initially asked to check for bent con rods - however once the cylinder head was removed it was found that all the valves in all 4 cylinders were pitted with no 3 cylinder valves being badly pitted.
No 3 cylinder valves were replaced & ground and the rest were simply polished to remove the pitting.
The engine was re-assembled and the problem was still there - they then replaced no 3 injector - still same problem - finally replaced all 4 injectors, all fuel injector tubes and 2 exhaust valves.
The cost was almost £1700 (thank goodness its under warranty !)
I have decided that from now on I will only use BP Ultimate (previously only used Shell Extra) but am concerned over the pitted valves - can anyone throw any light on why the valves have become pitted ??
As I intend to keep the car for as long as possible (10+ years), I dont know whether to laugh or cry about all this - the optimist in me thinks I now have a re-built engine, new injectors, etc.
Do you agree that BP Ultimate should prevent exhaust valves and injector problems ?
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Matt
|
You should be able to use any sort of derv, does it specify BP in the manual or something? Otherwise I'd be asking the dealer why it occured and also be having alook around the fordmondeo forum and get some feedback there. TBH, if your in anydoubt and you do want to keep the car for a while, either get a price on a Ford extended warranty or trade it in for a petrol at 3 years.
I have never owned a derv but I have had mondeos and their petrol engines are bullet proof, but from what I read, their dervs are a nightmare. Sorry, but there it is. At least its under warranty so don't lose any sleep over it at the moment.
Good luck
Jin
|
|
|
As I intend to keep the car for as long as possible (10+ years)
I think you are optimistic to want to keep it 10+ years. Anything major after 5 years old will probably write the car off.
Do you agree that BP Ultimate should prevent exhaust valves and injector problems ?
No. I don't think it will make any difference. You should be able to run the car on any Diesel which meets European standards.
|
|
But basic diesel and petrol to the EN are not mandated to contain detergent. So, your bog-standard stuff may not have the detergents etc and fail to clean deposits of carbon off.....
|
|
|
>>No. I don't think it will make any difference.
I agree - the diesel never sees the inlet valves, and only burning gases see the exhaust valve, never neat fuel. I could imagine poor fuels clogging and damaging injectors, but I'm talking about real jerry can rubbish, not any UK forecourt sold fuel which meets the required BS specs.
To me, pitted valves on a car this new suggests problems with the metallurgy of the valve faces and/or seats.
Number_Cruncher
|
|
Swap it for a petrol one - or buy a Vauxhall !
|
|
|
To me pitted valves on a car this new suggests problems with the metallurgy of the valve faces and/or seats.
Totally agree, especially since it was not the same in all cylinders, after all the fuel is the same in all 4 cylinders.
|
|
|
NC
Don't forget the dreaded EGR. Old-style diesels virtually never wore valves; it's got to be the corrosive compounds in the EGR gases that are causing this.
Number three cylinder might run just a tad hotter due to water-flow issues. Doesn't seen a very clear-cut fault when new valves didn't clear it and it had to be cobbled to a conclusion. Not very reassuring.
|
Sell this vehicle as soon as possible. My feelings concerning Delphi fuel systems have been voiced before and even if one were to overlook this aspect of the problem, any engine which has required this amount of attention at this age is doomed to a life of constant problems. Of this I have no doubt.
Blaming fuel is farcical. One of the most important and useful aspects of diesel engine operation is its tolerance to fuel variation. Any clean diesel fuel sold retail for road use in the UK should enable this engine to perform to specification - no question.
Petrol Mondeo if you like - or if you want a diesel, look at the German vehicles or their East European or Spanish clones.
659.
|
>>it's got to be the corrosive compounds in the EGR gases that are causing this.
Yes, EGR might have something to do with it, but, I don't think you can say that EGR has got to be the cause. A lack of crankcase ventilation fumes acting as lubricant is another possibility.
>>Doesn't seen a very clear-cut fault when new valves didn't clear it and it had to be cobbled to a conclusion. Not very reassuring.
Yes, I agree, it sounds a bit like the garage clutching at straws!
These gents have done a little! work on the subject;
www.shef.ac.uk/mecheng/tribology/research/projects...m
Number_Cruncher
|
Neil mentioned this above but just in case you missed it, this Mondeo forum has a lot of useful info......
www.fordmondeo.org/forum/fusionbb.php?
Usually either the EGR or the MAF (or both)
|
|
Take the engine over 4,000rpm regularly-it will make the valves rotate in relation to their seats-they don't rotate at lower rpm.A lot of big diesels(lorries) have rotators built into the valve operating system to even out the wear but manufacturers of small engines rely on the engine being revved occasionally.
|
|
|
|
|
|
