Badges are issued for other disabilities as well; my wife has one because she is partly sighted and epileptic.
In the case of bays outside private residences, if there is no restriction notice displayed at the roadside then a TRO does not cover the bay. Indeed, our local authority advises us not keep our badge in the car when parked in our own bay because so many are being stolen.
This caused a rumpus recently [ I had a thread about it at the time ] when a warden ticketed every bay holder in their own bays; eventually the local council boss involved was "corrected" by means of a grade A e-mail roasting from the County Principal Engineer, which the CPE copied to lots of people to make sure the local man got the message... :-)
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if the council pinched my parking space for a nod and a finger shaking occasional disabled parker i would have a cube of concrete delivered on the space
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im actually on the side of the disabled
but it does them no favours to have an unbalanced proportion of spaces allocated, or spaces allocated essentially for the personal use of one of their politically connected number, all it does is breed resentment and a lack of willingness for ordinary folk to comply with disabled spaces
only a few weeks ago an MP was in the press for parking in a disabled bay and he protested (correctly in my view) that in some places there are far more disabled spaces than ever get used while at the same time all the regular spaces often get full, he was hammered by the politically correct press etc, but in essence he is correct
provision of spaces varies widely throughtout the country, some places hardly have any, some have a reasonable balance, and some have FAR TOO MANY, there are too few checks and balances to prevent the nutters put in way more spaces than are justified by need
BUT i have every sympathy with genuine disabled folk who i would have thought would want these matters resolving more sensibly
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"only a few weeks ago an MP was in the press for parking in a disabled bay and he protested (correctly in my view) that in some places there are far more disabled spaces than ever get used while at the same time all the regular spaces often get full"
So does he (and you) think that if those disabled spaces hadn't been reserved for such users they would have been empty for him to use? I doubt it, they were only empty because there were no disabled drivers using them and not due to a lack of demand for spaces in general.
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"only a few weeks ago an MP was in the press for parking in a disabled bay
Sir Anthony Steen, South Hams MP (in Devon)........parked outside Newton Abbot railway station, seen by a constituent.
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I personally think that disabled spaces should be available to able bodied users if there are no other spaces available, outside where I work there are 5 or 6 spaces in the council car park left empty because they are marked for disabled use. Surely it is beneficial for the council to receive income from these empty spaces rather than leaving them empty on the off chance that a disabled driver may need one? Personally I don't park in disabled spaces but have been tmepted in situations like this, the only problem being that how can you prove there were no alternatives at the time of parking.
Also, do disabled badge holders have to pay to park in normal spaces, assuming that all disabled spaces were full or is it just the disabled spaces that are toll free?
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>>>I personally think that disabled spaces should be available to able bodied users if there are no other spaces available, outside where I work there are 5 or 6 spaces in the council car park left empty because they are marked for disabled use. Surely it is beneficial for the council to receive income from these empty spaces rather than leaving them empty on the off chance that a disabled driver may need one? Personally I don't park in disabled spaces but have been tmepted in situations like this, the only problem being that how can you prove there were no alternatives at the time of parking.<<<
And where would a blue badge holder park if all the bays were taken up because the able bodied drivers had nowhere else to park!!....... Nonsense!!
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"And where would a blue badge holder park if all the bays were taken up because the able bodied drivers had nowhere else to park!!....... Nonsense!!"
If the car park is full then they'd have to park somewhere else. How is that more nonsensical than me having to park somewhere else, not because the car park was full, but on the off chance that a disabled person may or may not arrive during the course of the day?
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>>>>If the car park is full then they'd have to park somewhere else.<<<< Do you really understand what you have said there!!! I suppose in your own selfish little way you would expect them to struggle the extra distance because you have taken the last bay.
There have been a few threads on this subject and that is the most selfish post I have ever read!!!!!!!!!.
Dam you , you should be ashamed of your selfish attitude to the less fortunate.
Sorry mods, for getting personal but his post deserves such a reply.
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What would they do if all the other disabled spaces were filled by legitimate disabled badge holders, they'd then have to park elsewhere. Should there then be a system of 'how much of a struggle it is to get places' so that one disabled party can 'gazump' another in terms of taking the last place.
I'm not talking about supermarket car parks, but council owned car parks in town centres, where the direction of exit of the car parkee would be unknown and so it's not possible to tell if the disabled space is closer or not to where they want to go.
I think you're getting over sensitive, as everybody seems to do when disability is mentioned. Otherwise the best way to tackle the problem would be to turn all city centre car parks into disabled bays only and then all the able bodied people can park in periphery car parks as it's less of a struggle for them to travel the extra distance into town.
As I said before I don't park in disabled spaces but that doesn't mean that I don't agree with the principle that I should be able to if it is the only remaining space available. It's the fear of a ticket rather than the principle that stops me. I don't think that that's selfish at all.
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C0cky, what a strange attitude you take. If you don't think that that is selfish then you are sorely mistaken. It is obvious that some of my neighbours think along the same lines as you do when there is nowhere in the street to park. There is always space in the street behind but that might be 300-400 yards away.
Nice to think that my son who cannot walk unaided, and even when aided he has a very very pronounced ataxia gait, should have to go 400 yards away to get into a car, when space has been provided out side the house but has been taken up by some selfish person who doesn't want to walk a few hundred yards.
What is it with people these days that they are afraid of walking a little bit?
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You're talking about a space outside your house aren't you. Which is fair enough, but tell me how far should I as an able bodied person have to walk on the off chance the space MIGHT be needed, the next street, the next block, across town, the next town...
Moving to an extreme example. I'm due to go into hospital for an operation soon, I'm not in unbearable pain and I won't die if it doesn't go ahead but by having an operation I will be using up resources that would be free if I didn't have the procedure. Am I selfish by having this operation because someone else MIGHT come into A and E at the same time I'm in theatre and could use this resource if I don't.
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You're talking about a space outside your house aren't you. Which is fair enough but
Space outside the house, or shopping centre, or anywhere else - all the same really.
tell me how far should I as an able bodied person have to walk on the off chance the space MIGHT be needed the next street the next block across town the next town...
The same as me when I am using my car (as opposed my wife's who usually ferries my son around). Last night it was about 425 yards.
Moving to an extreme example. I'm due to go into hospital for an operation soon I'm not in unbearable pain and I won't die if it doesn't go ahead but by having an operation I will be using up resources that would be free if I didn't have the procedure. Am I selfish by having this operation because someone else MIGHT come into A and E at the same time I'm in theatre and could use this resource if I don't.
Possibly.
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"Space outside the house, or shopping centre, or anywhere else - all the same really"
Not really, outside a house you're talking walking 20 yards as opposed to 425 yards, similar I guess for a supermarket, it's walking 20 yards to the entrance as opposed to walking 200 yards to the entrance. again a big distance. However, assuming, as my example was, a city centre car park the overall distance for a shopping trip / trip to the bank etc from the car park is a lot more and the extra distance will have less impact. i.e. an extra 200 yards on an overall distance travelled of 2000 yards
"Last night it was about 425 yards."
Is that your maximum distance or just what it happened to be last night, what if that space wasn't available, or a space on the next street or the one after that. How far would you walk?
"Possibly."
Brilliant. I think we've just solved the NHS cash crisis. Only operate if it's life threatning and make the excess staff redundant.
Overall then, do you agree with my previous post that all City Centre car parks should be made disabled only and all able bodied persons can park on the periphery of the city as they are more able to walk the mile or so into town to do their shopping?
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"What would they do if all the other disabled spaces were filled by legitimate disabled badge holders, they'd then have to park elsewhere"
That's one reason why there appears to be an oversupply in car parks - to ensure they are rarely completely full. We have five spaces outside our office, no more than two are ever occupied.
As for
"council owned car parks in town centres, where the direction of exit of the car parkee would be unknown and so it's not possible to tell if the disabled space is closer or not to where they want to go. "
It may surprise you to learn that not everyone who has a disability has problems covering long distances - Tanny Grey Thompson is capabale of doing over 26 miles, but she probably has a blue badge.
There's more to a disabled parking space than location - what about it's dimensions? Usually 50% wider to enable those who need to open doors wider, get wheelchairs out etc can do so without bashing other cars - one of which could be yours.
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there are many many abuses of disabled badges, by family members 'borrowing' them , badges that are stolen or forged ones
everyone else, understandably, gets annoyed at an abuse and a seemingly able bodied disabled person or a relative genuinely using it can then get the wrong end of some abuse.
it needs a crack down on the misuse, then the rest of us wouldn't mind.......no one's bothered though.........so the issue will continue. I seized one a while back (which i didn't really have the power to do) and had it sent back to the issuer......because a grandson had his grannies pass and was extracting the urine, out with all his mates.
no one in their right mind is going to have an issue with a genuinely disabled person having parking concessions.......although i do mind, greatly, the able bodied parking in them and places like supermarkets doing nothing about it.........clamp?
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Bays are usually given to the principal driver. If a passenger, it is deemed that a car can set them down and the driver go and park elsewhere. There are some exceptions, and my son is one such case. He has both a physical and mental disability which means that he cannot really be left by himself so therefore we have had a bay put up outside the house. However this does lead to people thinking that we are abusing the badge - if I need to use the car without my son, I go outside and jumo in the car and drive off, but when I come back and park outside the house, I park in the bay and use the badge although I am not disabled. I have had to explain a few times to passers by that I am not disabled but my son is.
I do not mind too much disabled drivers using "our" bay but they should know that they are allowed to park anywhere in the controlled parking zone free of charge. They dont and I asked the council whether they could erect a sign to this affect seeing as they were not doing badge designated spaces like the neighbouring borough does, but this was not possible.
Usually the blue badges who park there are builders. I did see one park in there not so long ago, and saw the chap walking down the road. As I passed him 10 minutes later at the bottom of the road about 1/4 mile away, I told him that he could park anywhere FOC and not in "our" bay and he was surprised and went back to move it.
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Usually the blue badges who park there are builders.
(stand by for some 'honest and straight forward' feed back, methinks).......
i too have seen builders vans with blue badges.....surely if you're fit enough to be a builder you're fit enough to not need a blue badge
....battens down hatches
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The builders are "amusing" sometimes.
Best one that I heard from one parked outside the house was something along the lines of "Oh, it's not my badge it's my borther's". Brother nowhere to be seen.
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The abuse of disabled parking by all sides is really annoying. Near me a disabled person has had the council mark up a disabled bay outside his home. However, he has a drive. Seems the only reason for the request was so that when friends and family visit they have reserved parking! His Mobility car also seems to be used by them more than him!
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RaineMan, if others are using the mobility car without the journey being 'for the benefit' of the disabled person, they will find themselves in trouble if they have an accident. The car insurance will be invalid as it will not be taxed for them to use - when you apply for the tax-free disc each year you have to sign as statement that the car will only be used for, or for the benefit of, the disabled person.
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this is quite correct deepwith as i took all relevant paperwork to the local post office a few weeks ago for a disabled man and although the actual getting of the disc was easy there were plenty of bits on the sheet that he had to agree to
and i didnt begrudge him his disc as he is in quite a bad way
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A neighbour of mine has a disabled bay. She doesn't look disabled, but has sickle-cell disease, a form of anaemia that affects people of African and Middle Eastern extraction. It makes sufferers feel very tired a lot of the time, and frequent hospital visits are required. She's a nice woman and I don't grudge her the space.
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Unfortunately, the blue badge system is so widely abused, that it is difficult to feel sympathy a lot of the time. I have no problem with genuine badge holders using disabled bays. But have lost count of the times of I have seen able bodied people leap out cars displaying the blue badge and running into the supermarket. I know there are times as mentioned previously, when they may be collecting the badge holder, but come on lets be honest, a lot of the time, people take the mick.
One thing which really does annoy me, is when blue badge holders park on double yellow lines. A double yellow line is there for a reason, because parking there will cause on obstruction. So why let blue badge holders park there? Where I live there is one street in particular, close to the town, which became a favourite spot for blue badge parking. However there are double yellow lines down each side, and once they had parked there, it caused chaos. Fortunately, the police realised the problem it was creating, and spent a week or two ticketing every car parked there until they finally got the message. Caused a bit of a storm at the time, but IMHO was quite the correct thing to do.
I got into a discussion with a work colleague about this very issue recently, he argued that if they wanted to go into town, where else would they park? My argument is if you are going to spend the morning walking around town anyway, what does it matter where they park?
I reiterate again, I have no problem with genuine, disabled people using designated bays, but they should not park on double yellow lines.
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Abuse of disabled parking spaces is no worse than the abuse of "parent & child" spaces at supermarkets - I've lost count of the number of times I've seen women with attractive 18-20 year-old daughters using these spaces - I guess I don't notice the ones with ugly sons, it must be a man thing!
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I'm with you on this one, with a 2 year old and a 6 month old with a double buggy those 'parent & child' bays really do make things easier when out on a family shopping trip. Makes me furious to see people blatently abusing them, and believe me plently of people do. People seem to think that a 16 year old spotty yoof entitles them to park in the bay....
Moving onto disabled bays - I know someone who has MS and is in a wheelchair, he drives a heavily adapted car (lots of switches and levers etc). Provided he has space to get out of the car (this is the main problem) he is happy to park anywhere, although obviously given the choice its easier to park in a disabled bay. I guess the point is that it's subject to so many variables, from the very obviously disabled to the not so obvious and is such an emotive subjective that people will always get worked up over it.
The thing is that he was never too concerned about people parking in bays, I think his condition gives him a different outlook on life and for him its a case of "my life is limited, I'm not going to waste it stressing over a parking spot". Some disabled people like to be treated the same as everyone else and don't like to have 'special treatment' or be seen to be different.
Sadly his condition has worsened and these days his driving is limited to a motorised wheelchair.
Personally I despise people who park in disabled or 'parent & child' bays, when they have no right to.
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Parent and child spaces are an entirely different kettle of fish. They don't have any legal status and if people choose to abuse them then fair enough in my book.
Personally I wouldn't myself because it seems quite obvious to me that the last thing I want in proximity to my car are children, trolleys full of shopping and harrassed parents. Seems like a recipe for door dings if ever there was one.
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i don't think there should be any such thing as a parent and child bay......all bays should be that size
for heaven's sake we go to the shops and put large things in the car?
if a mum with small kids can't get in and out of a 'normal' size bay.......then how will i with my increasing girth......or my missus who's pregnant... or the elderly who are more infirm
all cars have got bigger over the years, but the bays haven't
and it really really annoys me when someone clouts the side of my car........thank god for home delivery schemes
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i don't think there should be any such thing as a parent and child bay......all
> someone clouts the side of my car
Just park as far away as possible from all other cars. Even the busiest supermarket will have some corner that people are just too lazy to use.
That said on rare occasions my cars seem to be a magnet for old bangers which park right next to me despite a choice of a myriad of other spaces.
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I often use that tactic of parking in the far corner of the car park. With children in baby and car seats you need to open the doors fully to get them in and out. The problem is that for some reason people will always come and park next to you even when there are huge rows of empty spaces!
And yes, ALL the spaces should be made larger - or maybe we should make the cars smaller? :)
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>>>>>The problem is that for some reason people will always come and park next to you even when there are huge rows of empty spaces!<<<<
It's called the "Herding instinct"
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>>>>Parent and child spaces are an entirely different kettle of fish. They don't have any legal status <<<<
OldHand, disable bays in supermarkets or other private car parks do not have any legal status at all. Unlike most States in America IIRC where it is illegal to park in the bays without a badge on private as well as public land. Time we got our act together in this country.
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Sort of, I kind of new that I was typing it but there are in fact exceptions to the rule. I remember reading that some supermarkets have put their car park in the hands of local authorities and they are thus subject to normal regulations. Of course that wouldn't cover mother and child spaces.
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Wouldn't it be easier for this wonderful government of ours to simply pass legislation to cover all property.
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you're right Oldhand: supermarkets can ask for Traffic Orders under the RTA to cover their property. Here's a good reason why: www.baywatchcampaign.co.uk/LatestNews.asp?ItemId=11 :)
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If that is true then I am delighted I am wrong and will hope that all supermarkets eventually apply for the RTA to cover their property.
My local supermarket unwisely or stupidly sited the blue badge bays alongside a betting shop and a Subway sandwich shop and selfish drivers think it is ok just to park there for however long it takes to place a bet or collect a sandwich!!!.
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If I was a blue badge holder and found someone not displaying in a space I would just park blocking their car in. They could then wait while I finished my shopping until leaving. Seems fair and reasonable to me if possible to do so.
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If only it were that easy to educate them but it would be at a great risk to self and property, these people do not care about anyone or anything.
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A disabled bay has been put in partially blocking my drive to the point I have to go forward an back 3-4 times to get on and off the council will not move it back 3 foot as its done now and there not moving it. Who can I complain to above the council?
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Do you have a 'dropped kerb' where you cross the pavement?
If not, you don't stand a chance.
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Judging by our local supermarket, "disabled" usually means "bone idle and young/pretty" or "with superiority complex and personal number plate" or "chav with pimped up motor and megawatt sound system" or "gypsy/traveller" or "obese and determined to stay that way" or "immigrant and the law doesnt apply and in a hurry to buy some booze".
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A disabled bay has been put in partially blocking my drive to the point I have to go forward an back 3-4 times to get on and off the council will not move it back 3 foot as its done now and there not moving it. Who can I complain to above the council?
As above, if you've not got a dropped kerb, you may be on weak ground to start with. Lot of people in some areas have paved their front gardens or parking but not followed proper process.
I'm sure, at least if you're in UK, the Counil will have a complaints process. Before embarking on it be sure you are clear in your mind exactly what you are complaining about and what remedy you seek. Did the council, for example, follow its own procedures about notice/consultation before putting in this bay? Be absolutely clear about how you are affected - don't exagerate - and what will be an acceptable compromise to put things right.
Stick to FACTS. Whatever you do don't be tempted to start suggesting some sort of conspiracy or allow it to become personal. Co*k ups are frequent; conspiracy almost non existent.
Use your Councillors. If, having complained you think the Council have been guilty of maladministration then you may be able to go to the Local Govrnment Ombudsman.
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