Driving long distances - Mike H
My wife doesn't like flying, so we regularly drive down to Austria - have been for 28 years. This involves driving around 900 miles each way. We take it easy, with an overnight stop. Our usual practice is to drive for about 2-2 & a half hours each, then swap over, taking a short break in between. However, I got to thinking whether this was optimum, as I was reading a paperback this morning in which 3 people travelled on a long car journey and they changed drivers once an hour.

The reason for asking the question is whether by altering our pattern of driving/non-driving time it would effectively increase our range. Taking two days to drive down each time is not optimum, particularly when we are staying there for just a week. As we have just bought a flat there, we are likely to be making the journey more often, so I'm wondering whether, by reducing the onset of tiredness and subsequent loss of concentration (important on the german autobahns), we could do the trip in a day (albeit a long day - we can arrive when we like when we've got our own pad).

I'm not interested in discussions about whether we are taking the quickest route, just curious to tap into other peoples experiences of long-distance driving.

TIA
Driving long distances - Happy Blue!
I don't drive long distances often (I go Manchester to Glasgow about twice a year with my father), but find it is much easier to do a stint of no more than three hours first thing in the morning - leaving at about 6.00am - and swapping over at breakfast time with my father then doing about two hours. (I usually drive 175 miles in about 2hrs 15 of pure traffic free motorway).

I feel alert for the whole of my three hours, but find that concentration wanes quicker later in the day, so there is quite probably a good reason to swap over hourly, as the journey progresses.

900 miles in one stint though seems like pushing it even with two drivers and several breaks. Is there not a train service that gets you near?
Driving long distances - Mike H
You havent seen the luggage SWMBO takes! ;-)

You're right about the train, it's an option that I'm going to investigate, but a car would be handy when we are there. Agreed I could hire, but I guess it's a question of balancing cost against time - train plus hire car would be more expensive than driving but quicker. And there's a limit to the amount of wine you can stuff into a suitcase and still lift it off the ground.....not a problem with your own car!
Driving long distances - Brit_in_Germany
There is the "Autozug", where the car is loaded onto the train with travel generally overnight. A return from Düsseldorf to Innsbruck would cost in the region of EUR 450.
Driving long distances - Happy Blue!
Mike

We have a holiday apartment in Israel. As we have young children that grow out of clothes we have to take suitcases with their stuff. But for me and her indoors, we take so little now we could do it with hand luggage, as everything we need, we have left in the flat or buy over there.
Driving long distances - Mike H
Yes, we are planning to leave most of the basics we need over there. But there will always be things we need to take particularly in the early days - including bulky stuff like small bits of furniture, household oddments etc.
Driving long distances - Mike H
Hmm, definitely an idea but it's only a weekly service even in August (Dusseldorf to Salzburg). I'll look into it further. The days aren't ideal but perhaps I could work round them. Thank you for the suggestion.
Driving long distances - efad
A few years ago a friend who had a place in southern Spain had left a car there andwanted it back in England so the two of us flew ther to fetch it
We left on the friday evening and drove non stop [apart from chageover toilet and ferry] to arrive home in cheshire by sunday lunch We both drove for as long as we felt like usually for 2-3 hrs not keeping to any fixed pattern Ok we had both had enough at the end but did not feel too bad and I dont think we ever reached a stage where we we becoming unsafe at all I would certainly like to do it again like that
Driving long distances - Stargazer {P}
Mike,

We used to drive very long distances for holidays when living in Oz....upto 2500Km each way! We adopted the drive two hours and swap drivers. We were limited by trying to stay in daylight due to wildlife encroaching on the road during the night, and no motorways. We reckoned that 1000km/day was about the limit, that would get us to Melbourne or Brisbane in a single day, Cairns took 3.5 days including some stops to look around, Cooktown a further day (gravel roads).

Certainly in warm weather the afternoon driving stints would get shorter and shorter before getting tired and needing to swap driver.

1000Km was about 10 hours solid driving and was about the limit if you needed to repeat it the next day.

StarGazer
Driving long distances - Roly93
There is the "Autozug" where the car is loaded onto the train with travel generally
overnight. A return from Düsseldorf to Innsbruck would cost in the region of EUR 450.

Actually thats not bad. I looked into the same thing in France, ie getting down from the North coast to Perpignon, it was over twice that price.
Driving long distances - tyro
My wife and I usually swap every two hours.

That said, a friend of mine tells me that in his experience, it is far better to swap drivers once an hour if you are doing a long drive.
Driving long distances - T Lucas
I know you said your wife does not like flying,bot for me those sort of distances must be flown,and then pick up a rental car.
Driving long distances - Lud
There's nothing I like better than driving really long distances although I doubt if I could drive for 24 hours without really stopping as I did in the past. And getting so tired that you have to stop, as happened once or twice in those days, is an indication that you have been driving for longer than is sensible.

All the same, swapping drivers every hour or two sounds like a recipe for a remarkably slow trip. Three or four is fine.
Driving long distances - T Lucas
What always surprises me with long distance driving is when people that would normally only drive a few miles to work 48 weeks of the year then embark on epic trans European treks in 24hrs.There are strict laws for commercial vehicles,and rightly so.
Driving long distances - Mike H
What always surprises me with long distance driving is when people that would normally only
drive a few miles to work 48 weeks of the year then embark on epic
trans European treks in 24hrs.


...which is why we currently we do it as we do, but remember we are no strangers to it. An overnight stopover has been, for us, part of the holiday (we stay at the same places so have become regulars over the years), and two days is fine. However, we are only actually driving (i.e. behind the wheel and motoring) about 7 hours per day - which equates to about 3 driving stints. I'm just investigating options atm.
Driving long distances - BobbyG
My tuppence worth would be that sometimes the obvious stop over is at a meal time. However, I always feel at my least "alert" straight after a meal so would suggest that when you do swap drivers, only the "new" passenger has something substantial to eat whereas the new driver maybe just a coffee and sandwich only.

Would agree stopping every hour would seem excessive although in reality it might only cost you a minute!

Driving long distances - Lud
in reality it might only cost
you a minute!


Depends what sort of mimser the other driver is (and what sort you are of course).

Unknowns co-driving with top racers in long-distance races often got only a nibble at the cherry. The Big Toad did most of the driving, chain-smoking, taking speed and drinking brandy all the way in the heroic days...
Driving long distances - Chris White
All the same swapping drivers every hour or two sounds like a recipe for a
remarkably slow trip. Three or four is fine.


Would agree with Lud. I can't say that after an hour or two I'm feeling tired enough to want to swap. 3 or 4 would seem to be fine.

I don't want this to come out rude, but I don't know if has to do with age. The younger you are the longer you can go (...or the longer you think you can go....)
Driving long distances - CGNorwich
I find it much easier to drive long distances at night - a lot less traffic, cooler and generally more relaxing all round. A coffee break every two to three hours and rest up by day. I find I can cover a lot more mileage than I can in the equivalent period during the day
Driving long distances - mss1tw
It always feels more exciting at night too :^D
Driving long distances - tack
Is it that your wife doesn't like flying? or is frightened of flying?
If the latter....well my missus used to have to dose up on Temazepam(?) to get her to fly, then she stopped altogether. However, after a BA fear of flying course there is no stopping her.....New York, Paris, Tuscany.....my wallet!
Driving long distances - Happy Blue!
As a matter of sheer curiosity, where are your UK and Austrian homes and do you have a set route?
Driving long distances - Armitage Shanks {p}
Slight thread creep! Do any of you remember the BR poster who was going to run a courier service from the UK Midlands to Brindisi, in a van, 2 round trips a week. I was at a loose end and offered to help with the driving but I think either the idea died a death or he did on his 2nd trip! That would have been very serious/stupid hours of driving!
Driving long distances - Lud
Yes AS, I remember the guy. Sounded very young. Perhaps a troll sort of thing?

Sounded a bit much even to me week after week. Might have been possible for a while though. There would have been a fair amount of time slippage too.
Driving long distances - Armitage Shanks {p}
Hi Lud - glad someone else remembered! Just a not very well thought thru sort of thing, I think! For the van he was thinking of I don't think he would have made much money - wasn't there something about shipping antiques ie hi valu stuff? Anyway, long gone!
Driving long distances - mss1tw
I wonder how taxi_man is getting on ferrying that equipment the length of the country these days?
Driving long distances - Vansboy
miss1tb beat me to it!!

The other thing I always wonder, is the dual drivers of coaches. They cant have a proper rest, while on the move, while co-driver has his stint at the wheel.

Although I quite fancy that job - somedays!!

VB
Driving long distances - Armitage Shanks {p}
mss1tw - that's right, Milton Keynes to Glasgow 3 times a week with some special medical equipment that had to be bolted into a special frame in the car. He was going for a Skoda diesel as I recall. Shame we don't get some feedback on these oddball queries!
Driving long distances - Gromit {P}
> Milton Keynes to Glasgow 3 times a week with some special medical equipment

Dave Taxi Driver. He opted for a Passat estate in the end.

The other guy was going to shuttle art works to and from Italy, alone, in a Citroen Berlingo (or similar) on a non-stop driving schedule that would make Superman cry. As I recall, he didn't take kindly to the BR's suggestions that he rethink his plan for his own good and the safety of anyone he'd share the roads of Europe with...
Driving long distances - Westpig
Personally, i think you should press on for as long as you sensibly see fit. I don't see the merits of set time changes in drivers. Depending on a number of variable criteria you might well be able to go further (or not go further) than you'd imagine.

e.g. how relaxed you are, when did you last have a good kip, how used to long journeys you are, last time you had alcohol, is your body used to shift work (or similar), which one of the two of you is the naturally better driver (if any), etc,etc

I regularly drive form London to the Scottish Highlands in one go (some 520 miles).....SWMBO prefers very much not to do any driving, although she's more than capable. Depending on the traffic and my very heavy right foot, it will take between 8.5 hours and 12 hours, with a very brief food/fuel stop.

Last time, we did an overnighter and i parked behind a petrol station for 40 winks after Glasgow, because i was worried i was getting too tired..... mainly because the journey was severely delayed because of thick fog.

Knowing your limits and reacting to it is the key.

As an aside, i find that the slower i drive, the more boring it becomes, the more tedious it is and the more my mind wanders. If i keep my speed up, i'm more interested, more alert and more awake. There's no doubt a trade off...but i think the latter is more safe.
Driving long distances - Lud
>
As an aside i find that the slower i drive the more boring it becomes
the more tedious it is and the more my mind wanders. If i keep my
speed up i'm more interested more alert and more awake.


Quite so Wp, but there can come a time on a nice sweeping empty road at 4 am when the whole thing can get a bit hypnotic. Driving keeps you awake for quite a long time though.

Cold air and eating a hot green chili have both been recommended to me as wakeups.

Of course WW2 pilots and post-war long-distance racers used to use amphetamine. It works, but is bad for you, and the danger is that after a really long time you may start to fall asleep anyway, hallucinating as you do so. Time to stop then all right.
Driving long distances - Stargazer {P}
Agreed that if awake then 3 hours plus is possible depending on road conditions, but in Oz on wide open roads with a bend every 100km and 300km between small towns then it was very easy to let things drift a little, we found it much easier to take a break before there was a problem.

Most road deaths in country Australia are due to falling asleep at the wheel

Another factor is sun and glare...I find my eyes getting much less tired if wearing sunglasses on a long daytime drive.

StarGazer
Driving long distances - frazerjp
I drove 503 miles in one the other day coming home from the West Coast of Scotland.
I felt like doing more afterwards because i was still alert.
--
Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
Driving long distances - Mike H
Espada, we have bought a flat in Bad Ischl, in the Salzkammergut near Salzburg. Our UK home is near Petersfield in Hampshire (between Guidlford and Portsmouth, just off the A3). We are only just completing the purchase, so this will be a new regular run - previously we've headed for the Tyrol or Vorarlberg.

Our route these days is generally via Dover (due to ferry pricing, makes me angry every time I think about it!). The last couple of times we've gone through Belgium and Luxembourg, then of course Germany - we used to go across France via Rheims, Metz, Strasbourg. Our regular overnight stop is either a little village between Pirmasens & Landau, or in Alsace between Strasbourg & Colmar. Thence down to Bodensee/Lake Constance and through the Arlberg & Inn valley - if we are heading for Tyrol or Vorarlberg. If travelling to Salburg, we'd go across to Karlsruhe from our overnight stop, thence Stuttgart/Ulm/Munich/Salzburg.

Interestingly, the satnav in our new car brought us home through Belgium by taking us round Brussels and up to Bruges, then along the coast to Calais as being the quickest route. We used to take a left at Namur then via Mons/Tournai/Lille. And when I plotted a route out from home as an experiment, the satnav wanted us to go even higher through Belgium, via Liege, Aachen/Cologne/Frankfurt/Wurzburg/Nurnberg/Munich IIRC. Difficult to say which is shortest in terms of time - looking at the actual paper map they are all much of a muchness. We've yet to try the latter option.
Driving long distances - Number_Cruncher
Mike,

How long does it take you from the ferry to get to Bodensee? I need to go to Friedrichshafen a few times a year, and I've always flown, and never considered driving.

Cheers,

Number_Cruncher

Driving long distances - Brit_in_Germany
The A9 is being seriously dug up between Stuttgart and Munich which many contraflow sections - you can be lucky and have no problem getting through but there are days when it jams solid (particularly aroung public holidays). The Frankfurt Wurzburg/Nürnberg/Munich route is mostly three lane Autobahn and consequently less stressful.
Driving long distances - OldHand
I drove this section of the A9 the other week and it's a complete nightmare- extremely narrow lanes meaning that overtaking slow moving lorries through the speed restrictions is heart in the mouth stuff. Avoid like the plague.
Driving long distances - Group B
Is it that your wife doesn't like flying? or is frightened of flying?
If the latter....well my missus used to have to dose up on Temazepam(?) to get
her to fly then she stopped altogether.



My brothers wife used to be terrified of flying, they did a couple of inter-railing holidays as any prospect of air travel would ruin the holiday for her. Now she gets a prescription of Valium and has a good drink and shes fine! They now always go by air..

Driving long distances - Avant
A crucial element here which we haven't mentioned yet (unless I've missed it) is seat comfort. An ache caused by a poor seat can bring on tiredness much more quickly. Fortunately for all its other failings my Mercedes B200 seat is excellent, with lumbar support on 'max'.

SWMBO's Mini is much better than you might imagine too. To put some more miles on it instead of on mine I took it to Wakefield and back (from Berks.) with no problems.

Another element is that the engine needs to be relaxed at motorway speeds. In a lesser car than a Jaguar, Westpig might not be so happy on his journey to the Highlands. Most diesels are pretty good in this respect, as are big petrol engines, at a price.

Out of interest, what sort of car have you got, Mike?
Driving long distances - David Horn
With air conditioning, good music, and reasonable traffic I usually drive the Exeter - Manchester journey without stopping. Takes ~4 hours. Stopping every hour to change driver would send me up the wall.
Driving long distances - Xileno {P}
The two other threads refered to if anyone has forgotten:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=37784&...e

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=32282&...e
Driving long distances - james86
I do York to London and back in a single day at least once a week (commuting to head office), leaving at about 4am, getting down to South London for 8 and then leaving to come home around 6.30 getting in at 10.30. I could leave at 5.30 but find there's no point as will get in at the same time anyway so I usually hang about until 6.30, maybe go and see the family as I'm originally from London myself. Occasionally I'll end up going for drinks (non-alcoholic of course) with my Southern dwelling colleagues and will leave at say 10 getting in at 1.30 or so. Even more occasionally I'll do the sensible thing and stay overnight! (I should add here I'm only young so have plenty of energy in me for silly days like this!). And yes I have looked into getting the train but for various reasons it wouldn't fit in with my schedule.

I always love the journey down as it is largely traffic free. Even the M25 is fairly painless at 7/7.30 in the morning and I can often be in the office by 7.30 even a bit earlier if I've had an especially good run down. I always make at least one stop but only for a minute to buy a cup of tea to drink on the move. Obviously will sometimes need fuel too. Any accidents from the night before are largely clear or if any issues are easy enough to get round.

The journey back is a different story however. After a full day of traffic there might be accidents and delays that have built up during the day and I find myself hating the journey in the evening particularly if I have left late. Even with air con, good music (challenging this week as I have a loan car without the AUX in socket I'm used to!) etc I will still find myself getting a bit fed up and sometimes tired, and longing for a co-driver. Once I was particularly exhausted and ended up stopping every hour or so to get a drink and perk myself up a bit. This only tends to happen either in exceptionally bad traffic or when I leave later on in the evening which fortunately is quite rare.

I can see a value to swapping every hour or so, and suspect that if I had a co-driver that's what I'd do on the evening run given that we both had similar levels of tiredness etc. A couple of times on this kind of drive I have had a co-driver, and find myself doing the whole morning run (as i have a heavier right foot and feel awake & great) but then swapping regularly for the evening.
Driving long distances - gmac
A few times per year we drive from Cologne to central Scotland via eurotunnel.

Generally I get in from work, have something to eat and get my head down for three or four hours.
We leave around 11pm for the 3:20 crossing. I do all the night time driving as my wife does not feel confident driving at night at speed. I stop in NL to fill up with cheap diesel about an hour into the journey, then stop to brim the tank just before the French border.
From the eurotunnel, leaving at 3am I set the cruise control at 70 and we are up passed York by 6:45 when I stop. We grab some breakfast and my wife takes over for the rest of the journey.

I find you make better progress at night, obviously less traffic, no bright sunlight. As previously mentioned in this thread it depends if your body can adapt. The first time I did an overnighter, I found between 3 and 3:30 very difficult. If you feel tired, then stop.
Driving long distances - adverse camber
I did that a few times, but when you can get the train from York and be in london in 2 and a bit hours and read / work on the train it just wasnt worth the hassle of driving.

I think some people are missing the point of the stops/breaks. Its one thing to do a 4 or 5 hour journey in one go, but when the total distance to be covered is easily going to be 12 - 14 hours then that 5 hour spell tires you. Doing shorter spells and breaks makes it easier to keep going over the whole distance.

Remember this is a holiday - theres not point if you arrive totally shattered and get back needing another one.

I used to do 4 hour stints on long journeys easily, as I get older I find that not appropriate. I will still do a single journey of say 6 hours with a single stop for coffee / stretch legs. But If Im doing a longer journey I might do one 3 hour stint then 2 hour stints after that. Agree with night driving in the UK where the roads (esp in the south east) are so ludicrously busy. Less of an issue on the continent though.
Driving long distances - T Lucas
I'm not one for all this 'Health and Safety' 'Risk assesment' etc but am i the only one that finds all this talk of hours at the wheel and long distances very dangerous?
Driving long distances - OldHand
For various reason I often drive/drove from Netherlands>Madrid/Algarve and from Paris>Algarve. Fairly lengthy drives the longest of which involved about 2600km. I do a few fairly long trips across the length of Germany but I don't really count anything less than 800km or so as a 'long' distance.

In my experience there is no set distance or time that fatigue can creep in and trying to set targets over really long distance drives is a good way to have an accident.

For example I've driven SW Algarve to Bordeaux in one day and even after 13 hours straight driving with a couple of pit stops for food and toilet I don't think my driving was compromised. Conditions were fine and the roads were fast and empty.

However add rain, heavy traffic or fog and it becomes quite a different proposition.

Best advice I could give anyone is take a pillow and blanket in the car for long trips and the moment you start to feel tired get a 15 minute 'power nap' in and no longer. There have been studies to show that any longer actually makes fatigue worse whereas this length of time is perfect to refresh you.
Driving long distances - normd2
using OldHand's criteria I feel I can join in as my next long journey is 1045.85km :)
OK it's only in the UK and nowhere exotic. My advice, for UK travel at least, is to avoid motorway service stations at all costs. Do some research beforehand and use the big supermarkets as your stopping points. They're typically open 24 hours, have a cafe or failing that a vast range of reasonably priced food and snacks and (pardon me for saying this) if you're not a petrol snob 'normally' priced fuel and invariably right next to the motorway. If like me you travel overnight there are just too many suspect looking people (us legit travellers exceptd) hanging around service stations at 3 in the morning for my liking. When you do stop don't just fill up but walk around a bit, breathe some fresh air and get the circulation going again. As noted above watch out for the time just before dawn when your body is at is potentially lowest ebb. Also the next 'fun' bit is after dawn when you've been driving for 8 hours or whatever and meet up with those who've just set off, remember you're tired and they're raring to go....
Driving long distances - Brian Tryzers
>...the moment you start to feel tired get a 15 minute 'power nap' in...

Might be best to stop the car first.
};---)

I think it's probably a mistake to suppose that one size will fit all. There have been times when I've driven practically all day and felt fine, others when even half an hour was probably too long. In most cases, monotony is the enemy, so plan your route to include some variety, even if it's just the odd excursion to find a town-centre café or a hilltop picnic site.

Does anyone here (OH, perhaps?) do these long distances alone? I think that greatly increases the hazard - I really wouldn't fancy driving much over 150 miles without some company to keep me alert.
Driving long distances - normd2
I did the Cornwall to home and back again run two years ago on my own and overall it was worse than doing it with the family on board. We were down south when a crisis came up at work and I was summoned back so left the family down there for a week. At first I thought it would be great, ie my choice of music as loud as I liked, stop when I want etc but I must admit the last 200 miles or so was rough.

ps never answer the mobile on holiday unless you know it's someone you want to talk to.
Driving long distances - OldHand
Mostly do them alone as my partner prefers to fly and my friends will just come across direct from the UK.

Unless of course you count my dog (reason I'm driving) but intelligent though he is I haven't managed to teach him to drive even as well as a Frenchman.