purchased a 04 reg IS200 for 10k from a Lexus dealer 2 weeks ago. Despite being assured it was full Lexus service history on the day of collection no service history was forthcoming.
After a great deal of perseverance and several weeks was presented with a 'sham' of a service book that had been filled in 20 minutes earlier....and they wouldn't even admit to it being a duplicate despite the Lexus 2007 stamp on the 2004 service slot!!
The computer records of this vehicle showed...
First service 1500 miles late at 11,500 miles
2nd Service (full) : never occurred
3rd Service : errr 32500 miles lol (2500 late)
4th service (full): 45,000 miles....5 k too late
In my opinion, a pre-owned Lexus approved history is NOT a full service history..it would appear that they can get away with approving it if there are missing services by doing one service before you buy...
8< snip - potentially libellous comment removed - DD
Im currently negotiating a replacement vehicle that has a proper service history..although tempted to tell them to shove it altogether
{subject header and a few words altered / removed as could be considered libellous - DD}
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See if they will return the vehicle, or failing that they should give you compensation to reflect the lower value of a car that has not been serviced adequately.
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If you buy from a Lexus Franchise dealer under the Lexus Approved Scheme they will take the car back in 30 days if the car is unsuitable.
If you were told it was FLSH then you are entitled to a refund under Sale of Goods as the car was not as described.
If they "made up a service book" you have an even stronger case.
Demand the return of your money, if this fails - see you local trading standards and then your lawyer.
Log on to Lexus.co.uk and look at the T&Cs of the Pre-owned car scheme
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I don't think it is fair to tar Lexus with this brush -- it is a clear-cut case of a dodgy dealer.
I know there is a no name-and-shame policy on this board, but it seems strange that someone can come on and bad-mouth a manufacturer for something that wasn't their fault, while the shady crook who runs one of their dealerships gets away scot-free. {That is why I have changed a word here and there - DD}
I agree, you need to be threatening legal action, and getting trading standards in.
Then get a local newspaper to report on it, and then you can link to the story to your heart's content ;)
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Don't touch it. Reject it and get your money back. Report dealer to Lexus/Toyota.
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It's wrong that you were deceived, but has the car suffered?
Merc's, Audi's & BMW's can go up to 20K on variable servicing. My old company 406 had 20K fixed service intervals. Personally, the fewer times I take my car to the dealer, the better - they always seem to mess something up.
If you're otherwise happy with the car, then perhaps try to negotiate and further extended warranty or some other compensation.
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Now that I have seen the history (or lack of it )I think the car has suffered big time. Ive have since found out it was a lease vehicle. It had tow bar fitted as ive now seen the computer printout. All services have been late or in the case of the 20k which was a full,missed completely. They won't disclose the warranty work but ive found that the rear shocks were changed as were front ball joints (known fault). Appreciate its rear wheel drive but what was it towing? The clutch is slipping and knocking from front suspension was booked in to be sorted under warranty.Yesterday I found rust in the boot along two joins. Clearly its had a hard life to date.
The big thing for me was the deception by the sales 'team' as they still wont acknowledge they did anything improper. Still wont acknowledge the service book is a duplicate!It was like getting blood out of a stone just to obtain the computer printouts-' sorry office is locked', 'we will send it to you', even gave me the history for another vehicle before I found out the truth.
I have enquired about a refund. I traded in a 2 1/2 year old mint condition, very low mileage Mazda6 purchased from new, that was obviously worth more to me than the trade value i received.I would never be able to re buy that vehicle from a dealership for what Lexus gave me in the part ex.
Ive been offered a replacement vehicle under the 30 day scheme but would you would trust getting another vehicle sourced by this dealer?
In my original post I mentioned the fact that a 'Lexus approved service history' doesnt have to be a 'full service history'- and this is how they get around the problem of missing services. As long as they undertake a service before it is sold that will satisfy Lexus GB apparently.
I cannot believe I didnt look at the history prior to purchase but I was assured it was FSH on numerous occasions, they even told me it would cost them thousands if they sold a vehicle without a FSH!
Obviously its going back. Its either a refund or replacement. I will lose out in a refund as the bulk of the deal was my part ex.I also dont hold out any hope for what they will offer me as a replacement.
{Some text altered, re: same reason as earlier moderating - DD}
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ps
Jase1 perhaps I should changed the title to something else - {I have changed it - DD}. I appreciate there must be plenty of excellent Lexus dealers out there. Im certainly dont mean to tar them all with the same brush.
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Now that I have seen the history (or lack of it )I think the car has suffered big time. Ive have since found out it was a lease vehicle. It had tow bar fitted as ive now seen the computer printout. All services have been late or in the case of the 20k which was a full missed completely. They won't disclose the warranty work but ive found that the rear shocks were changed as were front ball joints (known fault). Appreciate its rear wheel drive but what was it towing? The clutch is slipping and knocking from front suspension was booked in to be sorted under warranty.Yesterday I found rust in the boot along two joins. Clearly its had a hard life to date.
OK, having read that, you should grab the chance to get shut of it.
I traded in a 2 1/2 year old mint condition very low mileage Mazda6 purchased from new
On the face of, that seems an odd move from the above car to an 04 IS200 - what was your motivation for making that switch?
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Looks like a lesson to us all, check the service record before you part with your money. I don't like the sound of the tow bar, what has it been pulling?
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>>I don't think it is fair to tar Lexus with this brush -- it is a clear-cut case of a dodgy dealer.<<
I actually think that the Lexus brand should be tarred with the brush. They control the dealer network. I appreciate it is difficult for them to manage every dealer but they set the standards by which they expect Lexuses to be sold & serviced - when the surveys are published it is the brand and everything that stands for that scores.
I think if you complained to Lexus UK they would be prepared to act for you as I'm sure they will also be disappointed that a Lexus dealer would act like this.
They should know so they can respond accordingly.
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I actually think that the Lexus brand should be tarred with the brush.
I agree with that - dealers act in the manufacturers name and, in most people's eyes, are their representatives.
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Can i just clarify a point to the mods . The bit you claim may be libellous and have altered in my posts is actually true.(perhaps I could have phrased it better) This is from the Lexus UK site about approved pre-owned vehicles.
www.lexus.co.uk/approved_preowned/key_features.asp...2
'Vehicles with an incomplete or non Lexus Centre service history can only qualify as an Approved Pre-Owned Lexus once the retailing Lexus Centre completes the most recent major service. The Centre must then update the service record book to then provide to you.'
In other words to qualify as Lexus approved- it doesnt need to have a full service history ! They certainly dont tell you that when you walk through the door.
As for swapping a 6 for an IS200 Bill payer...does seem odd but having driven the IS200 there really is no comparison between the two.
Thanks for the advice everyone
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I think you will find a lot of the 'approved' used schemes do not require a full history. It is basically there for dealer warranty purposes - i.e. the manufacturer is happy for it to carry the warranty cover.
TBH - I wouldn't worry overly much about the missing service or the slightly late services. But it does sound as if the car has had a hard life and therefore a poor buy on that basis.
Whether or not it was 'approved' or not is really irrelevant. You were told the car had FSH and it doesn't - so the car is not as it was described to you (misrepresentation) and therefore you should get your money back.
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You were told the car had FSH and it doesn't - so the car is not as it was described to you (misrepresentation) and therefore you should get your money back.
I wonder how 'FSH' is defined? Arguably this car has a FSH - the OP was (eventually) given a complete (therefore full) history of the car's service record.
In this case the car's FSH shows that it hasn't been servicing in accordance with Lexus required interval, which according to Lexus's used car warranty, doesn't matter.
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I think that a reasonable person test has been passed here. I.e. a reasonable person would believe that a FSH meant that it was service don time in accordance with the maker's schedule. If what the OP says is right (and no reason to suggest or believe otherwise) he has a strong case for some action from the dealers...
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Perhaps "full service history" or rather lack of it, could be defined by the fact that the warranty would have been invalidated by the missed and overdue services.
Subjectivity springs to mind. I wonder if there are any legal precedents?
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Dunno,
I would imagine that most are settled in Small Claims which wouldn't create one....need to speak to a consumer law expert, perhaps there have been criminal ones thriough Trading Standards.
Me I would go speak to the dealer in person to start with, then if that doesn't work phone the Consumer Direct helpline thing.
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Be prepared to be very firm. 2 years ago, I left a £500 deposit on a £15k used car at a Scottish dealership of this marque. Turned out that they could not produce a V5, but kept hassling me for the balance. Swore blind to me that I would just have to apply to DVLA for the document, even though it was by then common knowledge that the law had changed on that score several years before. I was extremely disappointed that I was being offered this disinformation from people who I was sure would know the new law better than me. They were most insistent that I was wrong.
When I told them the deal was off, and politely demanded my deposit to be returned, I had to argue the toss with the dealer principal, who seemed to be determined that I should just choose another car. Won the arguement, but it was still another week and a half till the money was returned to my account.
I love the cars, but still cannot believe how I was treated by that particular franchise.
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update..
I today found out from the previous keeper that it was involved in an accident 6 months ago,was off the road for 3 weeks and sustained £3500 worth of damage to the front suspension/steering. This was a Lexus lease vehicle.
So in addition to them not telling the truth about the history,they also failed to disclose previous recent accident damage and warranty repairs.
I have been offered a refund. However they will only offer me the forecourt value of the Lexus.... my issue is that it will cost me far more than I was given in part ex to purchase an equivalent vehicle (from a private buyer) than the one I part ex'd..
all im getting back is my part ex value plus the difference I paid them for the Lexus!!
I would never have purchased that vehicle or part exchanged mine if I had been told the truth.
any idea where I stand?
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Any chance of getting your old motor back ? Otherwise you need to calculate your losses and tell them that you want to be compensated.
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I have been offered a refund. However they will only offer me the forecourt value of the Lexus.... my issue is that it will cost me far more than I was given in part ex to purchase an equivalent vehicle (from a private buyer) than the one I part ex'd..
You must have been happy with the deal in the first place, so surely if you get the screen price of the Lexus back you'll be getting enough to purchase a similar (but without the issues) car?
I think it's probably to late to try to completely unwind the deal (assuming your old car isn't still for sale somewhere).
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DVLA will (and have when asked and given evidence) unravel their part of a sales/purchase when it goes wrong (in my case an issue whereby a new car on cherished plates was recorded as sold in error when they mis-read a V5c), I'd try and get my old motor back from the garage, they should put you back in the same position as you were before the deal happened. I hope that the advice on this site was of value to you in sorting this out.
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I think i need to try and get the vehicle back..Thanks for the advice everyone...ive only updated this post as they gave me an incentive to keep the vehicle today so i made one follow up call tonight with the previous owner who spilled the beans about the accident .
they have also told me that they are struggling to find a replacement of same year and spec.
It must make financial sense for them to shove me 10k rather than find me a suitable replacement...
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I have been offered a refund. However they will only offer me the forecourt value of the Lexus.... my issue is that it will cost me far more than I was given in part ex to purchase an equivalent vehicle (from a private buyer) than the one I part ex'd..
The forecourt value being the sticker price in the car when you bought it?
In that case it should not cost more for an equivalent one, unless the car was priced below book value, which suggests that they are taking into account problems with the car.
If it was below book there would be a reason, and so you have been given a discount to reflect the problems.
If it was not below book, you should not be out of pocket, so what's the problem?
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I think if they give you p/x value and the difference you paid then they are doing all they have to do. I think its optimistic to expect them to give you £10k compensation on top - I don't think they will do that.......
Obviously this is a rogue dealer and I think you should detail your problems to Lexus UK, I can't see them being very happy with the dealer...
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I wasnt expecting 10k compensation. I was saying was that they have offered me the trade in price of my vehicle, 7k plus the 3k cash i paid total 10k. For me to go and buy a comparible vehicle (to my old vehicle) privately and return me to the situation i was in before I stepped in the dealer would cost me an additional 1.5 to 2 k...
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For me to go and buy a comparible vehicle (to my old vehicle) privately and return me to the situation i was in before I stepped in the dealer would cost me an additional 1.5 to 2 k...
So you're saying the car was priced 2k under book? Which means presumably it would have been obvious to any reasonable person that it was *not* in excellent condition.
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So you're saying the car was priced 2k under book? Which means presumably it would have been obvious to any reasonable person that it was *not* in excellent condition.
I guess he's talking about margin - the difference between the cars px value and the price it would end up for sale at on a forecourt.
So he got £7K in p/x and it would cost £8.5 to £9K to buy back a similar car.
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...I meant to add;
So the traded in Mazda and the bought Lexus are are of broadly similar value (within 1-2K). Each to their own, of course, but do many people swop cars in such similar deals just for the heck of it?
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So he got £7K in p/x and it would cost £8.5 to £9K to buy back a similar car.
Eh? He wanted a Lexus. Presumably he still wants one, just not a knackered one. He does not want his Mazda any more - that's why he traded it in. The condition of his Mazda is irrelevant - he traded it in for a different car.
They are giving him back the cost of the Lexus, which would have been priced at the standard dealer price, so he can go out and buy another Lexus.
He says he traded in at below the car's real value. That was his choice, and the fact that the Lexus is a lemon has no bearing upon it.
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'That was his choice, and the fact that the Lexus is a lemon has no bearing upon it.'
It was my choice but only as a result of disinformation by the dealer.
The fact that its a Lemon has everything to do with it. It was a Lemon and they new it. The sale and the part ex of my vehicle only went ahead after they had lied about the lack of history in relation to service and accident damage.
The fact is that I would not have part exchanged my vehicle and taken the trade value had I known of the history they chose to not tell me about.
They now tell me they are having trouble sourcing a similar vehicle..how convenient.
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So the deal has gone sour and you want to be put back into the situation your were in before. this would mean they refund the price that you paid for it including the part ex. If the car was 10k and the mazda was 7k and the balance was paid cash - you should get 10k back. The only basis for getting more back would be good will.
Ideally they should give you back the 3k and your mazda, but if they are unable to do this you cannot expect them to give you back more money than you paid them. You sold the car to them for an agreed value. It may have been based on a falsehood, but this does not effect the agreed value of the mazda.
It would seem the car was priced to its condition which is why they cannot find a replacement at the same value.
I think you should just be glad to be rid of the car if it as much of a lemon as it appears (easy for me to say, im not losing on the deal)
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re "2500 late" i would say this is no big deal, its easy to happen if you need to make a few trips of 200/300 miles unexpectedly at the same time as dealers dont have any slots for a few weeks
however missing service alltogether is a much bigger deal, i want to know the oil has been changed
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