if it is a private car park and you have the owners permission then dvla have nothing to do with it
chris
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the driver might have taken his own advice as it is being left there purely to annoy the neighbours. When it was being MOT'd he arranged for one of his friends to park a van in its place,.
The upside is, he lost his job.
No he isn't a popular person.
But anyway - the legality of leaving an uninsured but taxed car on the road?????
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Not sure of the exact legal position, but consider the scenario where such a car parked on hill suffers a handbrake failure, runs down the hill mowing down a couple of kids.....
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Nicely grey area.
I would think DVLA would only be interested if it wasn't taxed (how will it be taxed when the current expires if it can't be proved any insurance applies to it?).
I would think the police would only be interested if someone was driving it, when insurance would be required.
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This is the same as driving other cars on your policy, the car still has to be insured by the other party or the propblem arises when you step out of it on a public road or car part. THIS IS NOT LEGAL. Regards Peter
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On **(..SPECIFY DATE..) at **(..SPECIFY TOWNSHIP..) used a motor vehicle, namely **(..SPECIFY VEHICLE MAKE AND INDEX NUMBER..) on a road, or other public place namely **(..SPECIFY ROAD OR PUBLIC PLACE AND LOCATION..) when there was not in force in relation to that use such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complied with the requirements of Part VI of the Road Traffic Act 1988
Contrary to section 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
For the purpose of this act USED also includes KEEPS.
The only requirement you do not need is a Driving Licence.
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Fullchat
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Shouldn't be on the road, needs insurance. Police would shovel it away if they knew and lump a £200.00 fixer on to the owner.
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It's not a "grey area" its on a road not in a car-park, therefore the law is black and white, no insurance.
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how do you know its not insured?
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We discussed this before - legal precedence was established in the case of Pumbien v Vines in 1995 at Queen's Bench Divisional Court in relation to one neighbour shopping out the other for storing a car on public road without insurance and MOT - the judge ruled that the uninsured and/or unroadworthy car left on public road is technically still USED by the owner (used, for example, for the purpose of "standing" or "rusting away" or "looking scruffy") regardless of whether it is DRIVEN by him or not. It might be hard to get ones head around it but this is how law see it.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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The police can access various databases to check - however, that's rather beside the point - the OP said in his example that the car was *not* insured. Mr. PU is quite right
- that's "not legal".
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Have a look at Hewer v Cutlet [1973] P.U.
Contrary to Elliott v Grey[1959] which held vehicle immobile at road side with non working engine but could be moved by pushing - vehicle was 'using' the road and required Insurance, H v C - vehicle mechanically immobilised and in capable of being driven - true test to be applied is whether or not steps had been taken to make it impossible to drive the vehicle. Immaterial whether or not the defendant would drive it.
A nice shade of grey what. Would need 'Their Worships' and maybe 'The Wigged Brigade' (ohh hoo money, money, money) to bring thimngs back to black.
...................close inspection of said vehicle, why is the wheels stood on bricks?
dvd
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DVD - even a vehicle sitting on bricks can be moved, it just takes more force, and makes a nasty noise.
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In other areas it is possible to get laid-up insurance, to cover third party risks, fire, etc, but not to use. eg for boats. It is much cheaper.
Do such motor policies exist?
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CP - yes, but the cover excludes the vehicle being on the highway.
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I seem to remember that you don't have to have insurance at all in the way most people think of it. You can deposit a very large sum of money somewhere (or at least provide a guarantee that it is available) to pay for accident claims. Are there any legal eagles out there who can confirm/clarify this?
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L\'escargot.
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I seem to remember that you don't have to have insurance at all in the way most people think of it. You can deposit a very large sum of money somewhere (or at least provide a guarantee that it is available) to pay for accident claims. Are there any legal eagles out there who can confirm/clarify this? --
I'm not a legal eagle, but can answer the question. Large companies like the Royal Mail don't have insurance as such but deposit a bond (i.e sum of money) in lieu of insurance
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The bond is somewhat more than the average individual could muster. In the region of £20m I think.
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Sect 144 Road Traffic Act 1988
.?(1) Section 143 of this Act (vehicles on a road to be Insured against 3rd part risks)does not apply to a vehicle owned by a person who has deposited and keeps deposited with the Accountant General of the Supreme Court the sum of £15,000, at a time when the vehicle is being driven under the owner's control.
That sum of £15,000 was increased to £500,000 by Section 20 RTA 91 and MV (Third Part Risk Depoist)Regs 1992.
Not intended for the individual but for those owning/operating a large number of vehicles such as Local Authorities, Police Forces etc where it would not be prudent to insure each and every individual vehicles on its own certificate.
dvd
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Most public authorities now insure through more traditional routes than the above.
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I spoke to plod on the phone, got a very supercilious control-room woman who said it was perfectly legal provided it was taxed, and I was to go away. I couldn't believe it so I tried again, got a different staff member, who seemed to be guessing.
So I went to the station today, armed with the legal advice from you lot - ta - and told them in a very authoritative voice that it was definitely not legal. "My solicitor friend told me..." etc etc. Black and white. No grey. So get it sorted.
So let's see.
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Is it possible that the vehicle is now insured in the name of another driver? He wouldn't have to sell it, but should make that person the regd keeper.
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Police call centre staff are just that, unless you get a knowledgeable one or a Bobby.
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Just out of interest, is the car causing an issue? I.e. is it a rusting heap of tatty junk? or parked in an inconsiderate way?
To be honest, if it's just parked in the street I would just leave it be, regardless of it's legallity. Before you know it the RFL will have expired, and I'm sure it would disapear then...
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A very pertinent question. On-street parking is a major issue here, but only because of one person. Not wishing to libel anyone, let's just say that a lot of people were hoping someone was going to fall off his shed roof recently when he tried to repair it. Whilst steaming drunk.
The parking space is being taken up out of spite. Amazing how small-minded people can be. NO comments about me posting this thread in the first place in the light of that last sentence THANK YOU!
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He sounds like one of those people that think they own the piece of road outside their house. Yes, it is amazing how small minded and petty people become when parking is limited.
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it could be perfectly legal and insured in the name of the owner as you do not need to hold a license to insure a car owned by you even if you can not drive it ,think about how many drivers get short term bans and keep their cars untill they get back on the road. it might not suit you that he still uses a parking space but that is your tough luck.
so how do you actually know that it is not insured ? or are you just trying to make trouble for him ?
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Paradox being insured and disqualified. Can't do it. If you read the not so small print on any certificate it says something along the lines of "If you hold or have held and are not disqualified from holding" No insurance company in its right corporate mind would do so, they would be aiding and abetting an offence if the car or whatever was used.
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not so pu it is possible to insure a car naming anyone you desire as the driver
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I should have added to that that the policy would specifically exclude the banned driver but could include cover for any one else
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I wasn't aware of that - we could speculate about an infinite number of variables and combinations of facts or suppositions here, it would be a matter of fact whether the car is insured or not, if I was a betting man I'd go with the view of the OP in this case.
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Pu the point I make is that unless it can be proved that no insurance is in place the owner of the car is entitled to the benefit of doubt and should not have mischief made against him here or any other place ,he is paying for his mistakes and deservedly so but none of us know the whole story and should not judge without the facts .it all makes for interesting debate though
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people were hoping someone was going to fall off his shed roof recently when he tried to repair it. Whilst steaming drunk. The parking space is being taken up out of spite.
Sounds like a man of true character. Perhaps one should try to make friends with this person, and find out what the truth is.
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I'd be ringing my local Traffic dept. A few quick checks will reveal whether or not its insured and if any doubt it will be on a low loader and its bye bye. There is indeed a great deal of job satisfaction in applying section 165 of the 1988 Road traffic Act!
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Fullchat
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"Whilst steaming drunk."
OK confession time. Many years ago had been celebrating a win in a local pub with clients.....got a lift home of course. At that time we shared a street with a Traffic Officer with whom I was very friendly (and still am) - I arrived home somewhat more flushed with success than usual. His wife phoned to say that they had some top-soil for me and that I had to collect it there and then as they urgently needed the space, so off I toddled with a wheelbarrow with a serious steering defect (i.e. me), I may not have been steaming drunk but the Health and Safety risks I posed that afternoon still make me cringe.
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