Clever Honda Engines - type's'
Looks like the future is a bit brighter for diesels after those clever people at Honda have developed a next-generation diesel engine that reduces exhaust gas emissions to a level equal to a petrol engine. The new diesel engine employs a revolutionary NOx catalytic converter that enables a reduction in NOx emissions sufficient to meet stringent U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Tier II Bin 5 emissions requirements (based on Honda calculations). Honda plans to introduce its next-generation diesel engine in the U.S. within three years.

They have also developed the next stage of i-VTEC technology with the development of the Advanced VTEC engine, which provides high performance along with outstanding fuel economy and lower emissions. The new engine combines continuously variable valve lift and timing control with the continuously variable phase control of VTC (Variable Timing Control) to achieve a world-leading level of performance and a 13% improvement in fuel efficiency (in comparison to their 2.4 i-VTEC). Honda plans to release a production vehicle equipped with the new engine within three years.

Looks like they plan on staying at the forefront of engine technology.
We can see in 3 years if they have done enough.

Clever Honda Engines - Statistical outlier
Will all of them perform that well though, or will the majority of them underperform on emissions by 20% while being lovely to drive as currently?
Clever Honda Engines - type's'
Very good question - it's probably why we will not see them for another 3 years while they perfect the technology for everyday driving.
IMO Honda do not tend to put something to market unless they have proven it in the real world over a long period of time.
That is why they are seen to be slow in offering some options that other makes get to market quickly and then use Joe public to trouble shoot for them.
Clever Honda Engines - type's'
Sorry folks I pressed the post button too quickly.
I know there has been alot of press recently about emmissions values not being met but having investigated my own accord I do know Honda have put alot of thought into delivering it's commitment on the nasty gas stuff.
For instance the exhaust systems are double skinned and designed to shorten as much as possible the run between engine and catalyst so the exhaust and hence the catalyst gets to it's optimum operating temperature quicker and hence reduces on emmissions.
Now I'm sure other makes put as much thought into this but I have not come across them myself.
Clever Honda Engines - Statistical outlier
I agree as a matter of fact, I was being sarcastic about the well known tendency for Accord Diesels to do 40 mpg rather than the claimed (and achieved by some lucky owners) 50. Burn 20% more fuel and your CO2 will go up by 20%, all else being equal I guess.
Clever Honda Engines - madf
More:
money.cnn.com/2006/09/24/autos/honda_diesel.reut/i...2


Honda unveils ultra-clean diesel system
Some work is still needed before the system could be made available in the U.S.
September 24 2006: 10:54 PM EDT


HAGA-GUN, Japan (Reuters) -- Japan's Honda Motor Co. has done it again.

The car maker that floored the world in the 1970s with the first gasoline engine to meet U.S. clean air guidelines without a catalytic converter said it has developed a new and simple diesel powertrain that is as clean as gasoline-fuelled cars.

The technology marks a big step forward for Honda (Charts) at a time when rivals are racing to come up with ways to clear the world's strictest emissions regulations, called Tier II Bin 5, that the United States will usher in next year.

Diesel engines, which now power half of Europe's new cars, are slowly gaining traction with fuel-conscious consumers around the world since they typically get 30 percent better mileage than gasoline cars. Their weakness has been the higher exhaust levels of nitrogen oxide (NOx), a greenhouse gas.

Honda said on Monday its new diesel drivetrain features a unique method that generates and stores ammonia within a two-layer catalytic converter to turn nitrogen oxide into harmless nitrogen.

Honda engineers said the technology is superior to a process pioneered by Germany's DaimlerChrysler AG (Charts) because the latter requires a complex system and heavy add-ons to generate ammonia from urea-based additives.

Some technical hurdles remain.

The system would need fine-tuning for the wide-ranging types of diesel fuel found in the United States. Honda also needs to develop technology to measure emissions levels according to U.S. On-Board Diagnostic System requirements.

But Japan's third-biggest auto maker said it planned to roll out the advanced diesel engine in the United States within three years. DaimlerChrysler, which along with Volkswagen AG (Charts) already sells diesel cars in the world's biggest auto market, is preparing its next-generation diesel car for a 2008 launch.

"Just as we paved the way for cleaner gasoline engines, we will take the leadership in the progress of diesel engines," Honda Chief Executive Takeo Fukui told a news conference at the auto maker's R&D center north of Tokyo.

Fukui said Honda would be "open to considering" the licensing of its new diesel technology once it was perfected.

Honda has long been at the forefront of green powertrain technology, perhaps most famously with the development in 1973 of the CVCC (Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion) engine which gave the popular Civic its name.

Earlier this year, it became the first in the world to announce voluntary global carbon dioxide reduction targets for its products and production processes.

Fuel cells, flex fuel
In a demonstration of other new power plant technologies, Honda also showed off a prototype of its next-generation fuel cell vehicle which runs on a newly developed compact and more powerful fuel cell stack.

The new stack is designed to allow the hydrogen and water formed during electricity generation to flow vertically instead of horizontally, making the component 20 percent smaller and 30 percent lighter than the previous version.

Honda's new FCX fuel-cell car now has a driving range of 570 km (354 miles) -- a 30 percent improvement from the 2005 model -- a maximum speed of 160 km (100 miles) per hour and can be driven in temperatures as low as minus 30 degrees Celsius (-22 F).

Honda plans to begin marketing the car in limited numbers in 2008 in Japan and the United States.

Honda said it also developed a flexible fuel vehicle (FFV) system that can operate on any ethanol-to-gasoline ratio between 20 percent and 100 percent. That car will be sold in Brazil, the biggest market for ethanol-based vehicles, later this year.

"Way out in the future, the ultimate green car will be fuel cell vehicles," Fukui said. "But in the meantime, you need a wide range of green technology to meet varying local needs and fuel supply."


madf
Clever Honda Engines - type's'
>>I agree as a matter of fact, I was being sarcastic <<

Sorry Gordon, I didn't spot the meaning in your post and immediately related it to the recent press articles on emmissions figures.
Cheers
Clever Honda Engines - Altea Ego
There is nothing special about current honda diesel engines. They are no more refined or powerful than other makers offerings and are usually worse in terms of fuel consumption.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Clever Honda Engines - cheddar
There is nothing special about current honda diesel engines. They are
no more refined or powerful than other makers offerings and are
usually worse in terms of fuel consumption.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >


Agreed, they are refined though no better than some, they are not very torquey for their capacity and under perform on the economy front, not a bad first attempt about sums it up.
Clever Honda Engines - IanJohnson
More refined - yes - there are several VAG 2.0 and 1.9 TDIs within 50 yards of my bedroom window and they are noisy, but not as bad as the Mercedes 220CDI !

Power - who cares, it is the torque that is important. Was ahead two and a half years ago when I got mine - VAG and Ford were still at 130.
Torque - no cause to complain - At least it does not have the instant stall feature experienced in the Mondeo TDCI 130 and the A6 2.0TDI, the Honda gives you some warning and a chance to recover it.

Economy - there were a series of threads on here three years ago about poor ecomony of Ford TDCIs - must be the way some folk drive them - one reason I went for the Accord.

An excellent effort for a first attempt and I would suggest that the new technology will be equally good, if not better, when launched.

For those who doubt - just count the Accord diesels you see and compare with how many recent Mondeo's you see!
Clever Honda Engines - Honestjohn
A not very well known irony is that the latest generation of self cleaning particulate filters are not compatible with biodiesel. Apparently the special engine burn cycle used to clean the particulate filter runs into lubricity problems on biodiesel.

HJ
Clever Honda Engines - Statistical outlier
They are smoother and more refined than the VAG units I?ve tried, more flexible, and they manage Euro IV without a filter, which is a financial bonus. I?m also not sure that 250 Nm of torque is shabby, given it starts nice and low down and has a fat spread. Shame about the thirst tho.

The loan car I had had a real time MPG readout which was a real eye-opener. I'm now more willing to accept my driving style has more to do with the MPG I'm getting, maybe. I?m trying changing up at every opportunity to keep revs right down unless accelerating. We?ll see?
Clever Honda Engines - cheddar
I?m also not sure that 250
Nm of torque is shabby, given it starts nice and low
down and has a fat spread.


They are more than 250nm, more like 330/340nm IIRC (perhaps 250 lb/ft) though somewhat lower than the Toyota T180 and Ford / Jag 2.2s which produce 300 lb/ft / 400nm.
Clever Honda Engines - Statistical outlier
Sorry, you're absolutely right. 350 Nm is 250 ft/lb which is what I was thinking of.

Am I right in thinking that the Ford units produce that torque using transient overboost, and their sustainable torque figures are actually slightly lower than Honda? Sure I read that somewhere...
Clever Honda Engines - cheddar
Sorry, you're absolutely right. 350 Nm is 250 ft/lb which is what I was thinking of.


I think Honda quote 340nm / 248 lb/ft.

Am I right in thinking that the Ford units produce that
torque using transient overboost, and their sustainable torque figures are actually
slightly lower than Honda? Sure I read that somewhere...

>>

Ford quote the 2.0 TDCi 130 as 330 / 350nm and the 2.2 360 / 400nm, however transient overboost is more marketing speak than anything, the thing that matters is that when you put your foot down you get 350nm from the 2.0 and 400nm from the 2.2.
Clever Honda Engines - Statistical outlier
I thought that it meant that you only got that figure for about 5 or 10 seconds then it dropped - designed for overtaking?
Clever Honda Engines - ziggy
I thought that it meant that you only got that figure
for about 5 or 10 seconds then it dropped - designed
for overtaking?


That's what always worried me...in which case it wouldn't be so good for towing...

But I don't know; could be similar 'concept' to calling 5th gear 'over drive'..

Clever Honda Engines - cheddar
No it is not time limited as such, rather it is applied by the ECU when required subject to varous perameters / loads etc.
Clever Honda Engines - Mike H
For instance the exhaust systems are double skinned and designed to
shorten as much as possible the run between engine and catalyst
so the exhaust and hence the catalyst gets to it's optimum
operating temperature quicker and hence reduces on emmissions.
Now I'm sure other makes put as much thought into this
but I have not come across them myself.


Rear silencer boxes on the Saab 9-5, and probably other nodels, are double skinned, not sure about the rest of the system. My rear box is currently down to 1 and a bit skins....!

Clever Honda Engines - SjB {P}
Well, I'm happy with a compromise of 258bhp, 444NM with most of this available across a huge plateau and giving real urge from a lazy 1500RPM, and 29mpg.
This from 2.4 litres of petrol burning five cylinder motor, which also means I can hang the revs out when I want to.
Boy does it sound good! :-)
 

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