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meant to add you could engage a higher forward gear with engine stopped and try starter with pedal down or adjust the cable if needed
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It is not uncommon for the clutch friction plate to rust onto the flywheel when a vehicle has been standing,should not cause it to be stuck in gear tho,unless,as said,the transmission is wound up.First try wedging the pedal down with a length of wood,after a day or three it may just release.If not,try jacking up the driven wheels,hopefully you can get it out of reverse,start the engine,depress the clutch pedal,engage first,rev up and apply the brakes.This should break the rust seal,there will be a big bang as it comes free.Observe safety precautions i.e.nothing that you can hit if it comes off the jacks.This may sound drastic but is the only way,other than removing g/box etc..
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It is not uncommon for the clutch friction plate to rust onto the flywheel when a vehicle has been standing,should not cause it to be stuck in gear tho,unless,as said,the transmission is wound up.
Hi,
Thanks for replying.
I thought it maybe the friction plate stuck on. The gearbox and engine seem to be fine on the road other than occasional problems changing into reverse when the engine was cold. I will try wedging the pedal down first. I forgot to mention I believe
there is a cover missing under the engine, because I can see
the flywheel. If there is suppose to be a cover - could this be
the reason for problem?
Thanks again.
Mike.
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you could try and jack up a driving wheel and see if it comes out of gear with the engine stopped ,are all the brakes free ?this could cause strain on the drive line /torque wind up keeping it too tight to come out of gear.
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
I think the brakes are free. Please could tell me - what is the
drive / line torque? Could this be loosened?
I would try the jacking the vehicle up, but it is parked on a hill.
Mike
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I would try the jacking the vehicle up, but it is parked on a hill.
I think this is why you cant get it out of gear as the weight of the vehicle pushing downhill is holding tight on the drive line,you must block the wheels you are not jacking up so it cant move then lift one or both of the driving wheels and it should come out of gear
plate missing ?yes this would let damp in and could cause sticking
the post about clutch down and a sharp stab of the brakes should do the job
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Assuming that the clutch is stuck, and that you do get it out of gear, make sure that you run the engine long enough to get the flywheel warm. This means a lot of idling time, maybe an hour or so, before you try 'jarring' the clutch free.
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Thanks for your reply.
I am hoping this is not the clutch, but I have taken note
of your comments.
Thanks again.
Mike.
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I would try the jacking the vehicle up, but it is parked on a hill. I think this is why you cant get it out of gear as the weight of the vehicle pushing downhill is holding tight on the drive line,
Thanks for the info. I will try this soon.
Thanks again.
Mike
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As I said,try wedging the pedal down for a while,the clutch may just come free.Running the engine to warm things up would help,but,if stuck in gear you can't.The cover you mention being missing could have contributed to the situation,although plenty of vehicles have this missing.
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As I said,try wedging the pedal down for a while,the clutch may just come free.
Thanks. I am concerned leaving the pedal down on a hill when it is not supervised. May ran into another vehicle.
Thanks again.
Mike.
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Put a block under one wheel and jack up the other to free the drive shaft;you should then be able to get out of gear,start and warm the engine,switch off,select fourth,foot on clutch and foot on brake and try to start engine.If this does not work,start engine and drive up road with foot on clutch.If none of these work,you are looking at freeing clutch manually;if you can get to the clutch easily ,try undoing all clutch bolts two turns and repeating previous instructions.
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Put a block under one wheel and jack up the other to free the drive shaft;you should then be able to get out of gear,start and warm the engine,switch off,select fourth,
Thanks I will be trying this in the next week or so.
Before this happened the gearshift was very loose. Fifth gear
changes near to the steering wheel.I had adjusted the gear linkage and replace the clutch.
Please could you advise:
Could this have been the cause of the problem?
What is the cause of loose gear shift?
I am on a very tight budget Can it be rectified cheaply?
Thanks again.
Mike.
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Rather than mess about, take off gearbox and strip clutch assy,its faster and easier than trying other methods,aside the fact other methods dont always work and cost time in doing so.
ie if clutch is rusted to flywheel its going to take a real shock to release it, and most suggestions wont work on a badly rusted clutch, thats what I would do anyway
--
Steve
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Rather than mess about, take off gearbox and strip clutch assy,its
faster and easier than trying other methods,aside the fact other methods dont always work and cost time in doing so.
Thanks Steve.
I've had a look at the gearbox and it looks like quite a job.
Manage to free the gearbox by jacking up one of the wheels, however it may now seem the clutch has seized on because it won't go into gear when the engine is running.
The vehicle tries to move forward when engine is turned over in gear and the clutch is fully depressed.
Mike
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>>the clutch has seized on because it won't go into gear when the engine is running.The vehicle tries to move forward when engine is turned over in gear and the clutch is fully depressed.
The spigot bearing may have failed. In which case the clutch would be actuated but not achieve its task.
Can you confirm that the clutch arm is being actuated when you depress the clutch pedal.
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The spigot bearing may have failed. In which case the clutch would be actuated but not achieve its task. Can you confirm that the clutch arm is being actuated when you depress the clutch pedal.
I can confirm the clutch arm is moving.
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Thing is,no one is certain it is rusted centre plate,it could be broken pressure plate not releasing the centre plate.
So I think a stripdown is in order IMO:(
--
Steve
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Thing is,no one is certain it is rusted centre plate,it could be broken pressure plate not releasing the centre plate. So I think a stripdown is in order IMO:( -- Steve
How difficult is it to strip down the clutch Steve. Seems the gearbox and clutch are sperate. Do I need to remove the gearbox aswell? I believe this is the way forward now, however I have no service manual and the vehicle is parked on a steep hill.
I am considering buying a Peter Russek manual on Ebay. Do you know if these manuals are any good?
Mike.
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Thanks. I am concerned leaving the pedal down on a hill when it is not supervised. May ran into another vehicle.
Turn the steering into the curb and chock the wheels.
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Give it a good tow this normally frees them.
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You have to take the gearbox and engine out as one and beleive me its heavy ,ackward and a real pain to put back in .
Try and find a mug to farm it out to .
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It sounds like Oldman is talking from experience, and I agree with him. Try the easy things first, they often work !
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It sounds like Oldman is talking from experience, and I agree with him. Try the easy things first, they often work !
Believe me, the easy things are exactly what I need.
Please let me know what are the easy things?
Mike.
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I think none misread Oldmans post,Oldman said in effect try and find someone that will do the job as cheap as possible but will also do a good job.
Hard to find these now, but well worth a search as decent mechanics are hard to find and worth keeping once you have found one,apart from that, simple ideas to clear a problem dont always work out due to other possible factors getting in the way wasting time and money in trying
--
Steve
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I think none misread Oldmans post,Oldman said in effect try and find someone that will do the job as cheap as possible but will also do a good job.
I am rapidly going off Fiat Ducato engines. Why do the french have to complicate things. I was looking underneath and to me there seems enough clearance for the Clutch/Gearbox to come out from the side. The problem is how do I manage to take an Engine/Gearbox
out of a small area whilst parked on a steephill.
And yes, as Oldman said, I know they are heavy, and difficult difficult to install.
Still I have ordered a Peter Russek manual and until this arrives, I will try not to think about it.
Mike.
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Well, first of all, does the clutch pedal feel normal when pressed down ? If it does, the chances are that the pressure plate is working as it should and that the disc is stuck to either the flywheel or pressure plate. If the pedal feels 'wrong' you might have a problem other than a stuck clutch. This is what I would do. Check pedal feel, if Ok run engine for about an hour. Stop engine and engage top gear and depress clutch pedal. Rock vehicle back and forth against engine resistance, as hard as you can. The clutch might break free with a loud click. If it doesn't, try jacking the driven wheels clear of the ground, engage top gear, start engine and give it a few revs, depress clutch and brake hard at the same time. This must be done quickly so that the clutch is loaded / stressed, ie. a revving engine on one side and a stationary transmission on the other. Being too gentle or slow will just result in a stalled engine. Andy Bairsto recommends towing, this nearly always works first time, but does need the use of a heavy duty tow vehicle as the towed vehicle is in gear during the tow. It might all sound a bit complicated and brutal, but it's worth a try before you spend a few hundred quid (or hours) splitting engine and gearbox to find that the stuck disc falls off as you touch it.
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Another thing that's just occurred to me is that the Fiat (?) engine fitted to your Ducato might be similar to the ones fitted to the Iveco Daily range.
The Iveco's are RWD and the bell housing has an inspection hole through which the clutch outer edges can be viewed. It should be easy enough to slip a screwdriver in !!
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Another thing that's just occurred to me is that the Fiat (?) engine fitted to your Ducato might be similar to the ones fitted to the Iveco Daily range. The Iveco's are RWD and the bell housing has an inspection hole through which the clutch outer edges can be viewed. It should be easy enough to slip a screwdriver in !!
Thanks for your reply.
I believe it is a 1985 2.5 Diesel engine fitted into a 1982 Talbot Express chassis. I believe there is an inspection hole at the top of the clutch housing. A retangular shape approx 1/2" wide and 1" long .
Ideally I need an inspection tool to check the clutch.
I am concerned I may damage the clutch using a screwdriver.
Is it possible to release the plates this way?
To be honest I wish it had been a Ford. A transit would have been nice :-)
Mike.
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Well, first of all, does the clutch pedal feel normal when pressed down ? If it does, the chances are that the pressure plate is working as it should and that the disc is stuck to either the flywheel or pressure plate. If the pedal feels 'wrong' you might have a problem other than a stuck clutch.
Thanks for your comments. Recent events, I had a leak from the
from the hose connected to the water pump. Bought the vehicle
approx a year ago so hasn't had a decent service for some time. The water was rusty and has managed to spill over the gearbox. Further investigation I have found a retangular cut-out at the top of clutch housing. Unfortunately the cut-out
does not have any protection, hence the water has probably entered in to the clutch, which I possibly how the plate has rusted to the flywheel. I believe the pedal feels normal. My friends dad had mentioned he had a broken spoken on the friction plate, but I would thought if it was that, I wpuld have thought I would have felt that through the pedal. I had considered towing the vehicle, but I believe my Passat would not be powerful enough. Infact I may have two vehicles broken, if I tried that :-). I am also concerned the vehicle may get stuck. I have had no problems with the clutch before, except
the vehicle does not go into gear easily into reverse (think this maybe lack of oil, because it is on a steep hill), but o.k after the engine was warm. Clutch cable replaced recently.
If the engine is warmed up for an hour. Would it be possible the clutch plate will free itself?
Mike.
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Mike, have actually tried to free the clutch yet ?
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Sometimes a surprisingly small amount of rust will totally lock a clutch, but when shocked free it then performs perfectly normally.
Assuming it is merely rust, and nothing seriously mechanically wrong inside the clutch, you have basically two options:
1) dismantle the clutch. This may well mean massive and heavy work to get the engine/gearbox unit out first.
IMO the best thing is to risk the shock option. Get the engine warmed up in neutral, then stop it. Put the vehicle in first gear, depress the clutch, and start the engine. Obviously you pick a day/time when there is least traffic around. Basically you just keep driving around in first with the clutch depressed, and hope that sooner rather than later it frees. Try going up to max speed, then suddenly decelerating, or stamping on the accelerator pedal.
If it doesn't work, of course you will have to get back to base and just stop by switching off the engine, then back to plan B.
But it's worth a try first before giving up.
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As I have said before tow it first,it works nine times out of ten.We have freed cars that have stood for ten years this way.
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Sometimes a surprisingly small amount of rust will totally lock a clutch, but when shocked free it then performs perfectly normally.
Thanks for your comments.
When I turn the engine over in gear, with the clutch depressed the vehicle moves forward.
I think a tow is probably the only option, but the road is always very busy, and although I believe it is 20 mph speed limit, they travel around at mach2, but that is a different story.
There is a hole at the top of the gearbox, which I believe is an inspection hole, so maybe a screwdriver may free it, although
I have to be careful not to damage the clutch.
Mike.
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Mike, have actually tried to free the clutch yet ?
No. Not yet. I wanted to get all the facts before commencing.
The vehicle is parked on a top of a hill on a busy suburban road. The road is built up with traffic either side and they drive fast down this road. I think I wouldn't be very popular if we get it stuck (:
The vehicle is 20 miles away from my home. I need a friend to help me to tow it , if we cannot resolve this using other means..... If there is a problem with the clutch and it gets stuck further down the road, due the current condition
it maybe mistaking for a wreck and towed away or vandalised
and if this isn't enough reasons not to do it. Parking is scarce
normally park my car in the space when the vehicle isn't there.
If anyone has any other excuses feel free to add them (:
Hopefully I will have a look at it at the weekend.
Mike
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I am rapidly going off Fiat Ducato engines. Why do the french have to complicate things. I was looking underneath and
Fiat ain't French. ;-)
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Been away so missed the start of this thread.
Having recently changed a 2L petrol Talbot clutch ( 1989 van so same chassis & drive train ) I can confirm other comments about it not being the side of a road job, though the gearbox and bell housing will come out without removing the engine.
No stranger to mechanicals, I nearly gave up a couple of times in despair. If you do really need to do it I would suggest a tow to a safe location & read the Peter Russek manual which was very helpful for this very job.
However reading what has been said I would try to free the clutch by any other means first.
The gear change is another can of worms, I may be able to help with that one, but it is fairly well down the list of priorities, one job at the time
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Been away so missed the start of this thread. Having recently changed a 2L petrol Talbot clutch ( 1989 van so same chassis & drive train ) I can confirm other comments about it not being the side of a road job, though the gearbox and bell housing will come out without removing the engine. Thanks for your comments.
I think if the vehicle was on the straight I would consider it.
But if the clutch doesn't free from trying the helpful suggestions from this site I will take it to a specialist. I have spoken to someone in Tottenham on the phone who suggested replacing a gearbox (originally thought this was the fault) would cost approx £200. I suppose it is 3 /4 hours work. I have
a Peter Russek manual..... way over my head
Mike.
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Hi Mike,
3 or 4 hours is a little optomistic, it took me two days with the frequent tea breaks necessary to retain my sanity, probably an expert, i.e. someone who's already done one, could do it in 8 or 9 hours.
The problem isn't so much removing the gearbox & clutch, this is much the same as any other, but the prep work. Drive shafts and therefore wheels have to come off and as you are going to spend a long time underneath very adequate support for the chassis is essential. The engine mounting is attached to the gearbox so engine needs to be supported, plus I found the gearbox & bell housing so heavy I had to get my Haltrac hoist out from the back of the shed to both lower it and more importantly line it up again.
I expect if Haynes did a manual they would call this a five spanner job, certainly not one to try if you've never done one before.
If you wanted advice re. costs I've always found Derek helpful and direct, he specialises in these Talbots, don't know where you are but he's in Dorset. He also sorts the gearchanges.
Website as below, but don't hold your breath for an email reply, best to phone.
www.delfindesigns.co.uk/
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Hi Mike, 3 or 4 hours is a little optomistic, it took me two days with the frequent tea breaks necessary to retain my sanity, probably an expert, i.e. someone who's already done one, could do it in 8 or 9 hours.
Hi,
I would not do it myself. This ould diffently be a specialist job.
Mike.
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