I'm thinking of buying a new car in the next few months, and would like another Audi A4 tdi but they're a bit more than I want to pay. So I've kind of settled on a choice between the Accord 2.2 diesel and the Passat 2.0tdi SE (saloons). My priorities (in no real order) are economy, reliability, good long-distance cruising ability, spec, space (esp. boot), style/image, nice to drive, and I would welcome comments, advice etc. They cost roughly the same as far as I am aware.
1. Which would be the best?
2. Is there anything else I should seriously consider?
3. What is the best way of buying it? (I would have only a smallish deposit)
4. Where should I get it from - dealer or internet broker?
5. Best colour?
Thanks
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Whilst the Passat may be slightly more economical, when it comes to reliability and lowest depreciation (By far the largest cost of car ownership) then there is no contest, the Accord is vastly superior.
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Don't think there's much difference in depreciation. Reliability would favour the Honda, but they're not perfect.
Best thing is to try them both and see which you prefer. There may be something about one or other which you can't stand. E.g. Honda = manual only.
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Whilst the Passat may be slightly more economical, when it comes to reliability and lowest depreciation (By far the largest cost of car ownership) then there is no contest, the Accord is vastly superior.
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I'll grant you the reliabilty piece, but I think the depreciation would be slightly better on the Passat, and I wopuld also say that the fit & finish of the Passat stays looking good for longer.
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Pat, I recently bought an Accord Tourer diesel. Addressing your priorities in turn:
Economy - so far disappointing - I'm getting a steady 40-42 mpg. There seems to be some sort of consensus that this should rise significantly in the next 6-10k miles. Better diesel (BP Ultimate for example, although watch ambiguous pumps - petrol fill is a disaster) makes a big difference in performance, and improves ecenomy enough to neutralise cost/mile as far as I can tell.
Reliability - It's a Honda, so far not even any squeaks. It does use oil for the first 10k miles tho - so far I've done nearly 7k and have had to put 2 litres in. Has used no oil in last 1k miles tho, so think it may now be bedded in.
Long distance cruising: fabulous, really comfy and effortless on motorways. Best car I've ever had for this, 6k painless miles in 2 months.
Spec - you can get a fully loaded car (leather, 17" alloys, good stereo, sunroof, auto wipers, headlight wash etc) for about £19,500 ish when I last looked)
Space - I can lie down in the back when seats are down and I'm 6 foot. I got a double mattress in there without folding it in half. An adult can sit behind me comfortably.
Style - I like it personally, although it really needs the 17" alloys IMHO, although these do definitely detract from the ride (from limo to merely very good) and do cause some slight tramlining. I think it's well worth the sacrifice though.
Nice to drive - it's better to drive than my Xsara VTR, which while very unreliable, was well regarded handling wise. Doesn't feel at all like a large estate until you glance in the rear mirror and see how far away the back window is. 30 ? 60 in the blink of an eye (if you blink slowly) in 3rd makes overtaking really easy.
So, overall, I'm delighted apart from fuel economy, and even then it's okay. I will be a bit peeved but not devastated if it doesn't improve.
My personal opinion was the Accord over the Passat hands down. It's had three years to get problems sorted, and the difference between VW and Honda dealers I spoke to was night and day. Both Avondale Honda in Solihull and Francis Honda in Leicester were fantastic ? the former gave me an all day test drive without me having to ask, and went and filled it up in case I didn?t have enough diesel to do the 200 miles I had planned)
Consider - if you can go slightly smaller, the Octavia is a really good car, my folks have one. Also Mazda 6 is a strong competitor.
Best way to buy - online broker. I used uknewcars.com, talked to personalcarfinance.co.uk who were very helpful but couldn?t quite find the exact car I wanted, and drivethedeal.com are supposed to be very good also. Personalcarfinance have a very good website where you can play with how much different mileage/deposit/years affects your payments.
Don't get it in a light colour - it looks rubbish. I've got it in Graphite Pearl with the grey penta alloys (those were a nice surprise when I went to pick it up - didn't realise I'd ordered them :-) ). Trouble is, it shows roadsalt like you wouldn't believe, so not an unqualified success.
Overall, I bought the Accord, and would do so again. Best car I've owned (although I'll admit that's not terribly high praise in isolation!)
Gord.
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The Accord is to be facelifted soon (only mildly) and there should be some very good prices available on the existing model at this time.
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Many thnaks for the replies so far.
Depreciation shouldn't be too much of an issue because I intend to keep the car for at least 5 years.
Interesting comments about dealers, Gordon, as I also live in the midlands (near Evesham). (And many thanks for your detailed post, it's very helpful.) I think I'll try the local dealers at the weekend.
One other question- does the diesel Accord have a 6 speed box (I'm getting mixed info on this).
I read Clarkson's good car guide in the Sunday Times last wekend and the Accord and Passat came 1st and 3rd respectively in the family car class. (Mondeo came second but I'm not that keen)
Cheers
Pat
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Why not buy the A4 you so desire? Your budget, if its the same as a new Passat, will easily get you a nice used Audi A4 2.5TDi Quattro.
Let somebody else pay the depreciation and get something a bit special.
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2. Is there anything else I should seriously consider?
I have done 105k miles in a Mondeo 2.0 TDCi Ghia X and would have another, it has been great. So how about a Mondeo Ghia X or Titanium X with the 2.2 diesel engine, absolutely stonking performance, economical, cheap to service, chain cam engine, well specced, reliability rating much better that VW currently, great handling, really satisfying to drive, great deals from both Ford and brokers currently. If that does not quite do it for you then how about an X-Type with the same engine.
Of the two you mention I really like the new Passat though I am not too sure about the engine, I have experience of it in a Golf and A4 where it seemed a bit unrefined, the Accord on the otherhand has a reputation for not meeting economy expectations.
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the Accord on the otherhand has a reputationfor not meeting economy expectations.
The Accord loosens up considerably after about 10,000 miles. It needs to be driven fairly hard. Mine is the Tourer and is not as economical as the saloon.
I have now done just over 12,000 miles and fuel consumption is excellent. I was one of the moaners on this forum about this.
Recently travelling down to Cheltenham and back, with queues on the M6 and M5, and some "brisk" driving when I returned, and the M6 was clear in places, and a number of short journeys at home, I was getting 41 mpg. Returning from France in October - and not all autoroute - I averaged 51 mpg. Oil consumption has been nil.
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Why not buy the A4 you so desire? Your budget, if its the same as a new Passat, will easily get you a nice used Audi A4 2.5TDi Quattro. Let somebody else pay the depreciation and get something a bit special.
Good point, the A4 and Passat are from the same mechanical stable, but I have had both, but on the Audi you can see where the extra money went.
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One other question- does the diesel Accord have a 6 speed box (I'm getting mixed info on this).
I test drove one for a few days last year and it had a 5 speed box, but the Honda website says 6, so maybe they've given in to the need to conform and changed it?
I liked the fact that it was 5 speed - 1st is too short in many 6 speed boxes, which just seem ti have 6 speeds for the sake of it. The Honda also has an amazing range in any particular gear - 3rd was good for all normal town driving apart from when I actually stopped.
The main reason I didn't buy one was because I really wanted an auto - the Honda was the best manual I tried though and I *almost* could have lived with it.
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My wife test drove both when last choosing her car. She went for the A4 but I so wish she chose the Accord. Far, far nicer to drive - loves being grabbed by the scruff of the neck too (car not wife . . .)
A4 goes in the next few months. Won't shed a tear at it's departure.
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I've tested the Accord and been a passenger in a Passat 2.0tdi. The engine install in the Passat is very good with little interior noise or vibration. My wife has an 2.0tdi A4 and I've been in numerous other vehicles with with this engine and this is easily the most refined install, on a par with the A6. That said I think that Accord has still got it beat in terms of refinement and willingness to rev; very petrol like and a joy to drive. Performance wise they are much of a muchness. I couldn't get on the Accord interior, particularly the dash and switchgear which IMO isn't up to the modern lines and quality of the VW, though this is largely a matter of taste and priority and I'm sure that the Accord would be just as robust as the VW if not more so. VW dealers appear to be the chink in their armour at the moment whilst Honda dealers seem to be top notch and if you look at the manufacturers table in the 2005 Top Gear Experian survey Honda came 3rd, VW 21st and for the record, Ford came 25th. Bottom line is that your 2 initial choices are the best in this sector and you really need to test drive.
Left-field alternative is the S60 D5. The engine is fabulous and considerably more powerful than anything discussed so far. No or low mileage examples can currently be picked up with stonking discounts.
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Haven't had the chance to drive an Accord yet, but was able to sit in one belonging to a friend of the wife just to get a feel for it - one thing that surprised me was how constricted the cabin felt in comparison to my 1999 Passat. In fact, I even felt there was more cabin space in my Leon. Ok, I'm a bit on the burly side, but not that much of a lump that I can't fit in a family-size car - I just felt that there wasn't enough room on either side of me. If space is important to you, this might be something to bear in mind. It wouldn't make me rule it out though, as the Passat is one of the roomiest cars I've experienced (one of the few where I can be equally comfortable driving or being chauffeured), so maybe I've been spoiled!
--
andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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I have an Accord Diesel Saloon Executive and am extremely pleased with it. This is my first Honda after 20 years of VW/Audi ownership because I was getting fed up visiting the dealer getting the A6 and subsequently the MKIV golf repaired. IMHO the Honda is a completely different ownership experience, it has only been back to the dealer once for its service (in fact Honda insisted on collecting from my home and returned it serviced and cleaned later in the day.
I do not like the look/style of the car as I love Germanic styling but that aside the driving/ownership experience is wonderful, the engine is superb and the service much better than I ever got from the VW stable.
I will agree with some other posters with regard to the fuel economy. When the vehicle was new I could not get any more than 42MPG (still good for a large car, now with 12500 miles on the clock it will now do 52MPG on a run. I work only 6 miles from home and during the last cold month the car has produced just under 44MPG. There is no oil consumption at all now.
I did suffer from tramlining on the 17" Penta wheels fitted with Yokohama tyres but since I have changed the front tyres to Michelin Pilot Sports the tramling has completely disappeared.
In 18 months the car will come up for replacement and I will be back in another Honda Accord without any hesitation.
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WOW! Great response.
A lot to think about. I think I prefer the look/style/image of the Passat but the Accord may be a safer bet overall.
Hands on time, methinks.
Many thanks, and keep the comments coming, esp in favour of the Passat!
Pat
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I think both are great cars and will it come down to something very personal. I sat in an Accord last week and the huge speedo reminded me of 1980 Datsuns - not pretty.
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My Accord Tourer Exec is just over 2 years old now (65k) and has been at a steady 50mpg average since new. Doesn't use any oil. Great car and very good service.
Havn't driven the new Passat but the Accord replaced a 1999 1.8T Passat which as a car was good (handled like a barge and could run its batttery down). What put me off another Passat was the dealer service - If it wasn't for company car drivers. . . .
Both were/are company cars (leased) but if I was spending my own money it would definitely be on the Honda - even though SWMBO doesn't like it!
BTW the 2006v diesel has a six speed gearbox.
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- They're both very good cars. I reckon the service from the dealer will make all the difference in helping you decide, Pat L.
And since I used to live in your neck of the woods, I'm 99% certain you'll find that the Honda dealer in Stratford-on-Avon is a damn sight more competent and professional than the VW people are!
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This test should be useful and tends to back up much of the advice you've received on the thread www.autoexpress.co.uk/grouptests/1514/saloons.html
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I've never looked at Passat, but some of the omissions on the spec of the Accord Exec I test drove where annoying.
Note this was a year ago, so some may have changed:
No seat position memory. The fact that it's got '8 way' elec seats sounds good until you get into it after your missus has moved everything and you can't get it back to where it was. On the 406 Exec I had it was bliss to just press the button as you got in and fall into a perfectly positioned seat.
Xenon headlights not even an option (yet they're standard on the 2.4VTEC).
No auto lights (yet it's had auto wipers, which even had a sensitivity control). I suppose you get used to it but the always illuminated dash confused the issue.
I thought the passenger seat should have had height adjustment.
No trip computer for MPG / miles to empty etc, was a terrible ommission.
No elec folding mirrors.
The model I test drove had Sat Nav, which really lifts the interior - the dash looks pretty horrible (big round knobs) without it.
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There is a comprehensive press pack setting out the changes to the 2006 diesel and other Accords: 6-speed box, revised dash, exterior trim, radar-actuated cruise control, multi-function computer etc etc.
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Thanks again for all the helpful comments.
I went with wife and son to the Honda and VW dealers in Stratford today. Both were very friendly and helpful, and not pushy in any way.
VW first - thay had a Passat estate in the showroom, and a very nice looking Jetta (which cauught the eye of my wife who is normally unmoved by motors!). Impressiion of real quality and solid build. Have booked a test drive in both next Saturday.
Honda next - immediate impression that the Accord was not in the same league in terms of quality and appearance. Very helpful assistant who told about some bargains with the run-out 05 model.
We all came away with the Honda off the shopping list (maybe unfairly). Boot spoiler on the sport model is a bit of a turn-off.
Anyway, I'll see how I get on with the VW test drives next week. I personally think the extra space in the Passat would suit us, but that Jetta was a superb lokking car.
Cheers
Pat
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Make sure you have a longish drive in the Passat. I felt as if my legs were offset to the right and felt uncomfortable. Not seen it mentioned anywhere else so it might have been me!
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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You weren't sitting in the passenger seat when you drove it were you?
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